BKK newbie

[TotallyOz]

20 minutes ago, z909 said:

Personally, I will spend the minimum amount necessary to ensure a certain standard of accommodation.   That might be Eur 50-60 for an Ibis in Berlin, 1400 baht at the Baan Silom in Bangkok, or 500 baht for a room in an as new hotel in Isan.   [The downside us occasionally screwing up and staying in some dump like the Nantra]

Whilst I personally don't see sufficient value in the 6000 baht a night hotels, I perfectly respect the decision of others to choose them.     I'm a capitalist at heart.  If you are making more than me,well done.   

The one point where I tend to disagree is on the tipping.   

Contractually and logically, a boy should get the same tip whether the room cost 1000 or 6000.   I agree on that.    

However, in practice psychology comes into it and his tip EXPECTATIONS will be higher in a fancy hotel.   Particularly if he hears how much it costs.     There have been all sorts of experiments done regarding irrational decisions people make.    Try reading "Predictably Irrational" by Dan Ariely, a simply brilliant book.

I still think he should GET the same tip in the 1000 baht and 6000 baht rooms, but expect the room to influence his expectations.   Economics is not perfectly rational, as people are involved.

I agree with your rationale. However, I tip the same no matter the hotel, massage place, short time hotel or in the park near the trees. I had a few good sexual experiences in the car lots in Pattaya at night, a quickie but still, I tipped the same. 

I never had a Thai boy expect a larger tip based on my room. That is not the same as boys in Prague or Brazil. Still, I also tip the same and I always negotiate the rates in advance. I never wait until someone sees my hotel.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, z909 said:

Personally, I will spend the minimum amount necessary to ensure a certain standard of accommodation.   That might be Eur 50-60 for an Ibis in Berlin, 1400 baht at the Baan Silom in Bangkok, or 500 baht for a room in an as new hotel in Isan.   [The downside us occasionally screwing up and staying in some dump like the Nantra]

Whilst I personally don't see sufficient value in the 6000 baht a night hotels, I perfectly respect the decision of others to choose them.     I'm a capitalist at heart.  If you are making more than me,well done.   

The one point where I tend to disagree is on the tipping.   

Contractually and logically, a boy should get the same tip whether the room cost 1000 or 6000.   I agree on that.    

However, in practice psychology comes into it and his tip EXPECTATIONS will be higher in a fancy hotel.   Particularly if he hears how much it costs.     There have been all sorts of experiments done regarding irrational decisions people make.    Try reading "Predictably Irrational" by Dan Ariely, a simply brilliant book.

I still think he should GET the same tip in the 1000 baht and 6000 baht rooms, but expect the room to influence his expectations.   Economics is not perfectly rational, as people are involved.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. My first visit was in 1984. And at that point in my life I was much more cognizant of budget and stayed in some places that I considered value for money .( Just ask Michael ) But there came a point where I saw no reason to go on vacation and stay in a room that did not compare with the room I lived in at home .  I could afford to stay in a nice room and after all I was on vacation. So I have stayed in the gamut of Hotels over 30 years in Thailand. Not once did I ever have a boy expect more money when he found the Hotel I stayed in was nice by my standard but luxurious by his . In fact as someone mentioned short time became long time with no increase expected. 

Unless you have visited the rooms that many of these boys stay in , you have no idea what a Hot Shower, a working TV, AC in stifling heat etc etc etc mean to them. Many short times turned into long times and in most cases the compensation went up because of my decision that additional Sex required additional compensation. There were times when no additional Sex occurred and boy left happily with his agreed upon tip and maybe a very good breakfast.

The one caveat in my experiences over 30 + years is that I never offed these Super Star Muscle boys that some members enjoy.  Maybe this type of individual would expect more because of the Hotel you stay in. If that was the case the boy would have to look for a new customer , if I was the client.

 

[hank75]

Perhaps my caveat would be, I usually do not disclose my hotel until AFTER the tip is agreed upon. And I repeat, I have never experienced a boy changing his expectations after discovering I stayed in a good hotel. 

As for those super star muscle boys, you might be surprised that they do not really care about where you stay. They’ve seen their fair share of good and bad hotels (ditto customers) and as long as you are reasonable and respectful, and fulfil their requested tip they do not tend to judge. In fact, being older (some are raising children), most of them are more skilled at thriftiness and money management than younger lads and are completely aware that a modest hotel does not always mean an empty bank account....and vice versa. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, hank75 said:

 

As for those super star muscle boys, you might be surprised that they do not really care about where you stay. They’ve seen their fair share of good and bad hotels (ditto customers) and as long as you are reasonable and respectful, and fulfil their requested tip they do not tend to judge. In fact, being older (some are raising children), most of them are more skilled at thriftiness and money management than younger lads and are completely aware that a modest hotel does not always mean an empty bank account....and vice versa. 

I am not surprised at all, just saying I had no personal experience and some posts seemed to say they were different in their expectations and demands.. Although not my type , I would expect them to behave the way the great Majority of Thai people behave.

 

[hank75]

10 minutes ago, Scooby said:

I am not surprised at all, just saying I had no personal experience and some posts seemed to say they were different in their expectations and demands.. Although not my type , I would expect them to behave the way the great Majority of Thai people behave.

 

They do expect higher tips. Because they are aware they are good looking specimens and they have trained extraordinarily hard to achieve such muscle perfection. But in terms of being impressed by fancy hotels? Like everything else it comes down to the boy himself - and I have been pleasantly surprised to find that some of the older ones couldn’t care less. In fact they dislike/distrust overly flashy customers. 

[Vessey]

Just a couple of points from my perspective, prefaced by the general observation that you should feel free to spend what money you have at your disposal in any way you want to ensure that you enjoy the holiday experiences that you want to.

Some will spend a higher proportion of their available budget on a top-end hotels and resturants, some will spend a higher proportion on drinking and partying, and others (myself included) will spend that higher proportion of their budget on having sex with the boy(s) (they can cum in pairs   ) of their choice. Its a fundamental 'up-to-you'.

However I would observe that when you call-down a boy you like the look of in a bar and buy them a drink, a two-way interview process takes place to see if you are likely to want to spend more time together.

For their part, the boys will almost invariably ask 'what your name?', 'where you from?', 'where you stay?'. 'how long you stay?', 'your first time in Thailand?' - amongst other questions.

These seem simple questions and maybe you feel they are just being friendly, and indeed they are, but the are also subtly pigeon-holing you into degrees of potential. And, unless they are very new to the business, they will already intimately know most of the regular hotels in the area including how much it costs to stay there. 

They will also make a further assessment of you quickly dividing you between 'Mr Horny' and 'Mr Lonely'  and they can then act the pornstar or act the boyfriend accordingly. 

As a newbie ten years ago I went on my first night into the first agogo I found and then barfined the first girl I saw and she stayed with me for the rest of my holiday. Thereby breaking just about every mongering 'rule' and making just about every newbie 'mistake' in the book - but I still had a great time notwithstanding.

Just keep a smile on your face, and your hand on your wallet, and you wont go far wrong LOL

[spoon]

When talking from experiences, there are bounds to be a spectrum of experiences as there are a lot of untold things that could be the results of that said experiences. There are boys that are greedy and expected more when u show u have money, there are boys who expectation never change, and they are boys who still expect more regardless. Which is why i always refrained from making a comment regarding one's experiences. We are only hearing from one sides of the story after all. And if we throw in the reliability of the story teller, the intention, the memory, the mood, the expectation of the story teller vs reality and so on, itll get more complicated. There will always be stuff that we never experience but happened to someone else and vice versa.

[hank75]

45 minutes ago, spoon said:

When talking from experiences, there are bounds to be a spectrum of experiences as there are a lot of untold things that could be the results of that said experiences. There are boys that are greedy and expected more when u show u have money, there are boys who expectation never change, and they are boys who still expect more regardless. Which is why i always refrained from making a comment regarding one's experiences. We are only hearing from one sides of the story after all. And if we throw in the reliability of the story teller, the intention, the memory, the mood, the expectation of the story teller vs reality and so on, itll get more complicated. There will always be stuff that we never experience but happened to someone else and vice versa.

Very well said.

[TotallyOz]

48 minutes ago, hank75 said:

In fact they dislike/distrust overly flashy customers. 

1

Not true. I have worn my boa and they loved it!  They even called me darling. 

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, hank75 said:

They do expect higher tips. Because they are aware they are good looking specimens and they have trained extraordinarily hard to achieve such muscle perfection. But in terms of being impressed by fancy hotels? Like everything else it comes down to the boy himself - and I have been pleasantly surprised to find that some of the older ones couldn’t care less. In fact they dislike/distrust overly flashy customers. 

For the life of me I fail to understand what staying in a nice Hotel has to do with Flashy customers. There are all levels of Hotels. What you think is nice, I might think is a Dump and vice versa . The vast majority of the boys find the Hotels we stay in far superior to their humble rooms in all most all cases. I consider it just ridiculous to think that boys would dislike or distrust a customer based on his Hotel. They are used to staying in all levels of Hotels and what is important to them is that they are treated with respect.

If the older Muscle Boys are different in how they look at customers and how they expect and show respect , then I am happy they are not my type. BUT I DOUBT IT!

[TotallyOz]

Off topic, but I'm old. When I lived in NYC, I loved the guys from Stella's Bar. They were typically Latino hustlers and often a bit rough. My favorite was this Puerto Rican who looked like a younger Ricky Martin. He was sexy and fun. But, we both lived so far away from that part of town that we had to get a room to have sex and often picked a cheap 20 USD short time room. His ass was just as sweet but the old condoms in the garbage and the unclean sheets made me feel sleazy.  Not sleazy enough to not see him again multiple times in the same place. But, he also didn't say that I was so cheap that I got a discount.  Normally, guys don't give a fuck where they fuck as long as they get paid.

[hank75]

13 minutes ago, Scooby said:

For the life of me I fail to understand what staying in a nice Hotel has to do with Flashy customers. There are all levels of Hotels. What you think is nice, I might think is a Dump and vice versa . The vast majority of the boys find the Hotels we stay in far superior to their humble rooms in all most all cases. I consider it just ridiculous to think that boys would dislike or distrust a customer based on his Hotel. They are used to staying in all levels of Hotels and what is important to them is that they are treated with respect.

If the older Muscle Boys are different in how they look at customers and how they expect and show respect , then I am happy they are not my type. BUT I DOUBT IT!

I didn’t mean the hotel Scooby. What I meant to say was, I have heard the muscle boys speak disparagingly about customers who try too hard to impress them, but are rude and overbearing despite flashing lots of cash and gifts.

and the last part of your post confused me. If anything, they are very respectful and polite.

[Guest]

Well I thought I was pretty plain. If they were different from the many hundreds of boys I have been with then I would be happy they are not my type.  However I doubt that is the case .  IMHO a Thai is a Thai and only in rare cases would you find boys  who speak disparagingly  about customers , regardless of their size and age and if they did the customer probably deserved it!

[Guest]

I'm ashamed to admit I don't know how to make a poll on this site. ( just never bothered)  But I would be interested in a poll that asked if you had ever visited a boys room or his hometown.

There should be able  to identify as retired in Thailand , Married to a Thai or just a short trip visitor. Naturally the first two would be much more likely to visit a boys room or his hometown.

[spoon]

When u create a new topic, at the top bar that says content, tap on it and down come a selection to change from content to poll.

[Guest]

I've visited a boy's room.   Three of them sharing some fairly grotty dive in Sunee Plaza.   Turns out my boy for that particular evening needed a fix.   This was a few years ago & now I would assert more control.

I still think they can approximately figure out the difference between a 1000 room and a 6000 room.   A fair proportion ask me how much the room costs, so once they have seen me and then some customers at Claridges, they can be learning.

[Guest]

I never said they cannot figure out the difference between a Dump, medium priced room and up. My argument is and I stand by it, it makes no difference to them where you stay in regards to the price they quote you.  First because of sites like this and others , a new visitor should have a pretty good idea what the going rate is for the type he likes and the city he is in. Armed with knowledge it is unlikely boy will succeed in quoting  a higher price based on the place you stay even if he happened ask  2nd there are hundreds of upscale Hotels etc in BKK, that 99% of the boys have never heard of and would have absolutely no idea what they cost. 3rd there are many 1500 baht rooms that might seem luxurious to the boy based on his room, yet certainly not luxurious to a Western customer.

I can count on 1 hand the number of times I have been asked how much a room is by a boy and zero times where he asked to change the agreed upon rate. I continue to think it a ridiculous argument. IMHO

[ggobkk]

I've twice visited a boy's lodging.  One was dorm style with three boys (maybe more) sharing.  Very basic.  The other was a single accommodation in what could be considered a shed.  No facilities other than electricity.

[hank75]

3 minutes ago, ggobkk said:

I've twice visited a boy's lodging.  One was dorm style with three boys (maybe more) sharing.  Very basic.  The other was a single accommodation in what could be considered a shed.  No facilities other than electricity.

Is this in Bangkok or Pattaya?

[reader]

Was invited to visit a regular’s room in Bangkok. It was the typical cube with petitioned off toilet area.

It lacked a window (as do some of the newer rooms at Raya, btw) but had  a ventilation duct connection.

Although it initially struck me, a westerner, on the austere side, he was happy with it. None of his walls were exposed to the sun so it didn’t  get as hot as the rooms with exterior walls. And he said it was relatively quiet for the same reason.

He was sharing it with one other guy along with the 3,000 bht monthly rent (plus electric and water fees).

[CurtisD]

BenG1000, you have some pretty good advice already. I very much agree with DivineMadman.

Even after visiting Bangkok for a couple of decades, as I only visit once or max twice a year, each time feels new and those butterflies of anticipation never go away. It’s Great!

For accommodation my go-to is Le Meridian. If it is within your budget, go for it. Great location, pool, and very companion friendly. They also have a great spa. Nothing like a good Thai massage (you wear a type of pajama, no oil, no ‘extras’, a short lady walks all over you and bends you pretzel shaped) to get the kinks out after a long flight.  

I have never experienced a guy expecting a larger tip because of the hotel. Like us, the guys like nice things, so I think a nice hotel (especially one that does good Thai food) is a pleasant bonus for them.  

If you have time, look beyond the gay scene. Bangkok is World Class. Try a couple of Skybars, for example Vertigo at the Banyan Tree or SkyBar at Lebua State Tower. Thai food is excellent. Within walking distance of Le Meridian there are Ruen Urai, Mango Tree, Baan Suriyasai and Papaya. For cocktails you can’t go past Vespers in Soi Convent.

For presents for friends and family, try the Royal Thai handicraft center (in a mall somewhere, the concierge will know), Jim Thompson Outlet in the suburbs a couple of blocks from Bang Chak skytrain station or Chatuchak weekend market (if you don’t mind leaving soaked in sweat).

The bars continually change, so just go with the flow until you find a guy that clicks.

My suggestion for a first evening is:

·        * Relax with a Thai massage.

·        * Have a light Thai meal at Ruen Urai. Good food in a relaxed garden setting.

·        * Go to Vespers for a pre-club cocktail. The walk will get you a little into the beat of Bangkok. Cocktails are excellent. Bar staff are attractive and friendly (professional mixologists, so no this is not a go-go bar) and talking with them will move you into the zone for talking to the ‘bar guys’.

·        * Don’t head straight to a bar, take a seat in Maxis and people watch for a while. Get a feel for the pulse of the scene.

·        * Then hit the bars.

·       *  I would start with Dream Boys to level-set. A range of types, helpful non-pushy mamasans, generally a good standard.

·        * Then, in a hunt for twinks, in no particular order as things change: Fresh Boys (both locations), G-Boys and Classic Boys.

·       *  Opinions vary on Mamasans. I usually work with them as they know the guys, they can interpret and if you find one annoying the blocking hand signal is usually enough.

·       *  Be sure to discuss what you want up-front before you take a guy off. Aligning expectations goes a long way to a happy experience. This may particularly be the case looking for a twink top. However, in my experience, many twinks are versatile and many are tops (to my regret). I do not think you will have a problem.

·        * As a visitor, particularly not a frequent one, do not get too hung up on prices. You only have so many nights and your airfare and hotel are sunk costs. If you like a guy, better to get him than quibble over what is in effect pocket change compared to your sunk costs. 

If If you want to take a guy for company to a Skybar or just generally, they will be happy to go with you, but probably better to do it the second time you meet so that you have a connection and the guy can actually be company.

[hank75]

A wonderful and informative post by CurtisD.

I would add that, if offing a boy as company rather than just for bedroom action, it is important to consider a couple of things. How is his English, can he converse? More importantly is he a lively, outgoing sort who enjoys being taken out and is willing to be a good companion? I have made the mistake of assuming a boy who spoke good English would also be a good companion since we had a chance of sustaining a conversation...I have since learned that the two do not necessarily go hand in hand. 

[Guest guest_BenG1000]

Great ideas and tips CurtisD, thank you very much! The more solid info I get the better as it's only a 10 day trip. Had not even heard of some of the places you mentioned and will look them up tonight. G-Boys is in Soi Twilight as well?

I will definitely not get too hung up on prices, I'm there for only a short time and want to make the most of it. Offing a boy for company and a fun time (not just sex) seems difficult but I will try for sure. Hard to make a connection in only a few days but. Just planning this holiday has already been super exciting ... 9 weeks and counting 

As far as Le Meridien goes, is Soi Twilight in walking distance and did you ever stay in an Avantec Suite? If so, what is it like?

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, BenG1000 said:

. G-Boys is in Soi Twilight as well?

 

G-boys is actually across the Suriwong street from soi twilight in the small soi to the right facing Greek-temple-look like building. It's called Wall Street soi owing to hotel of the name right past bar

[CurtisD]

3 hours ago, BenG1000 said:

Great ideas and tips CurtisD, thank you very much! The more solid info I get the better as it's only a 10 day trip. Had not even heard of some of the places you mentioned and will look them up tonight. G-Boys is in Soi Twilight as well?

I will definitely not get too hung up on prices, I'm there for only a short time and want to make the most of it. Offing a boy for company and a fun time (not just sex) seems difficult but I will try for sure. Hard to make a connection in only a few days but. Just planning this holiday has already been super exciting ... 9 weeks and counting 

As far as Le Meridien goes, is Soi Twilight in walking distance and did you ever stay in an Avantec Suite? If so, what is it like?

Le Meridien is an easy walk to Soi Twilight. En route you pass an area of street food vendors with plastic tables and chairs. If a guy is hungry (it pays to ask) offer to buy him something here, either to eat at one of the tables or to take back to the hotel. 

Over the years I have tried the various kinds of Vista room and the Avantec Suites. I have never had a dud room. My only suggestion is to specify a room on a high floor for the view. The Avantec Suites are very nice. If the price works for you budget I would do it, but the other rooms are also good.