Suvarnabhumi Airport Expansion

[DivineMadman]

I just came across a report that suggests the  National Economic and Social Development Board has told AOT to drop the current plans for Terminal 2 and go back to the original master plan.  If true, then certainly not much relief for Swampy for many more years to come.  [The original master plan calls for a large expansion terminal on the other side of the runways - sort of a mirror image of the current one.]  The third runway and a currently planned expansion of the eastern end of the current terminal are still in the works.

Oh well.

[Guest]

For a start, having one company monopolize running of airports is not optimum, as we found in London.

One of the Bangkok airports should be sold off to a rival consortium and they should be encouraged to compete for business.   Then they might be more keen to add capacity, rather than just milk a monopoly.

[reader]

Although costs are the more obvious factor in the scaling down of the expansion project, it's possible that other aspects are in play.

Two bits of financial news yesterday added to the growing evidence of the slowing of growth worldwide. Vanguard, one of the most respected investment houses in the US (and where the idea of index investing was popularized), predicted a 5% annual return on equity investments over the next decade, down significantly from earlier expectations. And growth in the Chinese economy was walked back yet again.

This begs the question of whether developers are beginning to acknowledge that this may result in a leveling off of what has been phenomenal growth in the air travel industry. Although orders for new aircraft has been robust in recent years, buyers are chasing more fuel efficient equipment to replace existing stock. The trend is away from the largest aircraft (A380 and Boeing 747).

Delta just last week began flying the new--and smaller--Airbus A220 (109 seats). The same aircraft is already in use by Korean Air and Jet Blue is expected to soon sign on.  Japan's Mitsubishi and China's COMAC are also entering the lucrative narrow-body market.

None of this suggests a reversal in growth patterns in air travel. However, it could be that a  modest decline in the rate of growth is in the cards.

The interior of Delta's new A220.

[TotallyOz]

2 hours ago, z909 said:

For a start, having one company monopolize running of airports is not optimum, as we found in London.

One of the Bangkok airports should be sold off to a rival consortium and they should be encouraged to compete for business.   Then they might be more keen to add capacity, rather than just milk a monopoly.

Competition?  In LOS?  Really?  How would the wealthy survive?

[PeterRS]

12 hours ago, DivineMadman said:

I just came across a report that suggests the  National Economic and Social Development Board has told AOT to drop the current plans for Terminal 2 and go back to the original master plan.

As I understand it, Terminal 2 was actually put on hold several months ago. One reason was that the Thai architects who designed it are alleged to have copied ideas for the basic design from elsewhere. There was also concern about its location..

But there is also the large satellite to Terminal 1 which I believe is already under construction. This is located between the runways, south of the main Terminal, its gates and taxiways.  If I remember correctly, I saw work being done on that site the last time I departed. The design calls for 28 new air bridge gates and it seems these will be exclusively for THAI and Bangkok Airways planes. The satellite will be connected to the main Terminal by underground people movers.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

If I remember correctly, I saw work being done on that site the last time I departed. The design calls for 28 new air bridge gates and it seems these will be exclusively for THAI and Bangkok Airways planes. The satellite will be connected to the main Terminal by underground people movers.

I spotted that as well.    After looking at it pretty carefully, I figured it has to be a satellite terminal.    Hopefully the tunnels are in progress too......

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, z909 said:

Hopefully the tunnels are in progress too......

Ha! Maybe not! I can see dozens of flag waving, whistle blowing security guards encouraging passengers to move quickly across the taxiway in lashing monsoon rain as an A380 bears down on them! 

[DivineMadman]

8 hours ago, PeterRS said:

As I understand it, Terminal 2 was actually put on hold several months ago. One reason was that the Thai architects who designed it are alleged to have copied ideas for the basic design from elsewhere. There was also concern about its location..

 

yes.  the latest report - if true - is not that it's on hold but officially "scrapped".  Although of course anything can change, and even more so during an election year as promises are made....

ALso reports that the gov't has pulled the high speed train project connecting the airports because the winner of the bid has changed the terms.  But presumably that's just a hiccup and that will still go forward, with one of the other bidders or on changed terms.

[fedssocr]

tunnels under swamp land, what could possibly go wrong?

The plan for the wooden terminal seemed very odd to me as it had so few gates and looked like it was going to be very expensive with all of that detailed woodwork. A mirror image terminal seems somewhat sensible as long as there is a way for vehicle traffic to get to it.

[DivineMadman]

3 minutes ago, fedssocr said:

tunnels under swamp land, what could possibly go wrong?

The plan for the wooden terminal seemed very odd to me as it had so few gates and looked like it was going to be very expensive with all of that detailed woodwork. A mirror image terminal seems somewhat sensible as long as there is a way for vehicle traffic to get to it.

I think the proposed terminal 2 was more of a "do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good" stop gap.  Easier to build and connect to transit.  A brand new mega terminal will certainly be better in the long run.  But in the long run we'll all be .....

I wonder if you need a strong leader with a clear vision to build something as big Swampy.  Or in Thaksin's case, strong leader, clear vision and, if reports are to be believed, a truly rapacious capacity for graft.  Where Thailand gets the money for a mega terminal will also be interesting to see.  Any chance it'll be China??

[Guest]

Surely you just borrow the money to build an airport, then pay it all back with landing fees and rents for all the expensive shops?   AOT has a monopoly in Bangkok, so I presume the charges must be high enough to generate a return.   No need to be efficient when running a monopoly.

I would like to think the land for extra runways and terminals was all ringfenced when the airport was designed in the first place.

 

[DivineMadman]

According to today's Bangkok Post Terminal 2 is not quite dead yet.  

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/1630574/act-flags-airport-graft-risk

[PeterRS]

Getting rid of the price gouging by King Power will be a major boost - if the AOT resist the financial "incentives" King Power will no doubt offer.

Hong Kong changed its duty free operators last year ousting DFS (Duty Free Shoppers), now part of the LVMH Group, which had more or less pioneered mass market duty free in the Asia Pacific region 60 years ago and opening down town centres. The two new consortia now running most of HKG's duty free operations have not only slashed prices on many goods (a bottle of ordinary Moet champagne is now cheaper by more than 20%), the booze and tobacco operator offers guaranteed cash back if the goods can be found cheaper at any other regional airport. Thats double cash back - twice the price you paid.

King Power obtained its concessions at BKK and the other major airports in the Kingdom without any tender process. Seoul's airport at Incheon had 12 bidders!

[Guest]

Duty free is a ludicrous system.   Fortunes are spent engineering planes to be light and fuel efficient, yet dumb taxation policies result in customers and airlines flying loads of excess shopping around to save on duty.

Then the duty free shops cream off a lot of the savings in any case.

[vinapu]

13 hours ago, z909 said:

Duty free is a ludicrous system.   Fortunes are spent engineering planes to be light and fuel efficient, yet dumb taxation policies result in customers and airlines flying loads of excess shopping around to save on duty.

Then the duty free shops cream off a lot of the savings in any case.

long time ago I decided that best savings on duty free items is by NOT buying anything there and with very few exceptions I stick to my resolve bypassing all that expensive glamour. 

In days past there was good value shopping in duty frees  but it seems globalization leveled that advantage off

[PeterRS]

14 hours ago, z909 said:

Duty free is a ludicrous system.   Fortunes are spent engineering planes to be light and fuel efficient, yet dumb taxation policies result in customers and airlines flying loads of excess shopping around to save on duty.

Then the duty free shops cream off a lot of the savings in any case.

Agreed. And thats before you consider all the extra bottles of Duty Free booze the flight attendants try to flog on board. 

But increasingly airports are looking at Duty Free on arrival which saves much of that extra weight on the aircraft. Sydney has had this system with a large stock of items for about 2 decades. Unfortunately prices are often quite a bit higher than at your departure airports! I find the same is true in Singapore where prices on entry are higher than prices on the same goods on departure. BKK has a small Duty Free on arrival section. The real problem with purchase on arrival is that the time taken to locate what you might want results in your ending up at the back of a long Immigration line. 

What I find almost ludicrous about Duty Free shopping in general is that most travellers happily buy a bottle of gin or scotch which saves them perhaps less than a handful of dollars. For all the time taken checking prices and queuing to pay, I fail to see how that bottle is worth it! The only real savings tend to be with the high end products. If you like an occasional glass of Krug or Dom Perignon, you can easily save $40 or more. But then you are most likely to be flying biz or first and price is hardly an issue for you!

[vinapu]

57 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

But then you are most likely to be flying biz or first and price is hardly an issue for you!

as they say ' if you need to ask how much it costs, probably you can't afford it":

[Guest]

Then after all that, the customer has to squeeze the damn bottles into their luggage and carry it home.   I prefer to travel light.

Also, the world would be a better place if there was international agreement to end duty free at airports.   

This would end the waste of flying bottles around.  Also, instead of having to navigate a maze of duty free shops to reach the departure area (e.g. Stansted), we might get more space for coffee shops, seating etc.

[vinapu]

8 hours ago, z909 said:

  Also, instead of having to navigate a maze of duty free shops ......... we might get more space for coffee shops, seating etc.

considering how much some of those coffee shops charge , I'm not sure I agree

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, vinapu said:

considering how much some of those coffee shops charge , I'm not sure I agree

The snack bars and coffee shops at BKK are outrageous in their pricing. I once had an earlyish flight to Europe which I knew did not serve breakfast after take-off. Lunch at 10:00 am departure time is ridiculous. So I had a simple breakfast in the departures area. Absolutely rip off and I have never wasted money like that again.

[Guest]

Have you ever considered getting one of many credit cards that provide you with access to Lounges where everything is free?

[Guest]

The pricing in the airport coffee shops might be outrageous, but if there is an extra 50 or 100 baht added to the price of my coffee, it's not a big deal relative to the cost of my flight.   

Of course, I still think regulators should to tackle monopoly pricing in airports, but I am not going to go without my coffee.

As for credit cards that give lounge access, well I wasn't familiar with the concept.  I therefore googled it and AMEX have a card that offers access to a few US lounges and one in Hong Kong, or an annual fee of $550 !        Now that had an outrageous cost and doesn't cover anywhere I plan to visit soon.   Presumably there are better deals around ?

I have paid for lounge access in Heathrow.   At about £32 for 3 hours I can just about justify it to myself, based on free food and drink, free newspapers, use of a shower and comfy quiet seating.   

[PeterRS]

13 hours ago, Scooby said:

Have you ever considered getting one of many credit cards that provide you with access to Lounges where everything is free?

I believe that is a perk offered mostly to ccs provided by US based banks to US residents. To my knowledge very few in Europe and Asia offer these. And if they do, you have to pay quite a bit for the privilege or spend a major amount monthly. There is also the Priority Pass with lots of lounges around the world. But that means coughing up $99 annually plus $32 per visit or $429 with unlimited free visits. Problem is these lounges are often packed and sometimes you are denied entry because they are full. It is not only specific Priority Pass members who have access. Some other credit card users are also able to access Priority Pass. If anyone knows a regular cc that offers ounce access in Europe and Asia, Id l;ove to hear about it.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, PeterRS said:

If anyone knows a regular cc that offers lounge access in Europe and Asia, Id love to hear about it.

Same here.   Although the only money credit card companies make off me is likely to be the 1.5% fee, or whatever it is they charge to merchants.    I pay no annual fees, no forex surcharges and no interest.   So if they did offer lounge access, they would most likely be loss making.

[Guest]

I know it is different  as far as earning miles bonuses for cc in much of the rest of the world. I just wondered if you could get a card such as Chase Reserve card and partake in the benefits. It certainly is an International Bank.

 

On the surface it might seem pricey at $450 a year but you get credit for Any travel charges of up to $300 that takes it down to in reality $150 . Then there are a number of other benefits .

But even without that $150 buys you unlimited Priority Pass entrance around the world which at most Major airports has a selection of at least 2 Lounges . I have never been denied entry and of course you can take a friend with you.

I never have understood why the rest of the world is not allowed to get bonuses but wondered if you could take part in  other benefits .  Anyways just a thought!