Something Important to Remember

[ggobkk]

Going back to the OP about Starbucks not posting its menu in Thai and then as the posts grew in number, the question of what this might suggest to a Thai only speaker...

I am of an age that I can recall dining in some of the grand restaurants in NYC (which were mainly French - Cote Basque, Pavilion, etc) and the menus were only in French...to ask for a translation was an invitation to be condescended to...

 

[Guest]

22 hours ago, kokopelli said:

Not I ! Fact is I am impressed by how many Thais I encounter can speak English. Puts me to shame.

 

It may put us to shame, but English has become the international language and with it so widely taught in schools, any job which deals with farang is going to require some English skills.  

As  native English speaker, whatever second language we learn will only be of use in a handful of countries.   My second language is European.  I visit a country where it is spoken perhaps once every two years, usually for less than a week.  Normally when I say something, the reply comes back in English.  It's quite a relief when the other person actually replies in their own language and I can actually practice my skills.  

As I am now spending more time in Thailand & the neighbouring countries I have finally decided it's time to learn a bit.   Starting with counting.  So, I walk into a scruffy old shack to buy a bottle of water.  The lady is over 60 and I figure English is not going to be spoken.

I pick up the bottle of water and say saam?  (3, short for 3000 Lao kip, having noticed they rarely bother to add the thousand).

The reply comes back,  "Good guess".

Anyway, can anyone here advise on how to find a really good language teacher  ?

The one thing I did pick up from time spent on a third language is that it's important to find a really good teacher who challenges students and makes them think in the class.   The progress I made with a good teacher was way ahead of that with an average one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[floridarob]

I remember on Jeopardy,  the country with the most people that speak English......What is China, was the correct answer

[reader]

19 hours ago, ggobkk said:

Going back to the OP about Starbucks not posting its menu in Thai and then as the posts grew in number, the question of what this might suggest to a Thai only speaker...

I am of an age that I can recall dining in some of the grand restaurants in NYC (which were mainly French - Cote Basque, Pavilion, etc) and the menus were only in French...to ask for a translation was an invitation to be condescended to...

 

As you imply, it suggests "you don't belong here....".

Some hi-so Thais can take a persevere pleasure in belittling their countrymen to make themselves feel even more superior.. 

[EricV]

I partially agree with that sentiment. I would never expect a regular Thai (or any other boat nationality) to speak my mother tongue or English.

But I DO expect any business that caters to tourists to speak the language of their guests well, it's just good business sense. In many places, that means English, and increasingly in Asia that may mean. Mandarin. If you don't speak the language of the people you want to earn money from, it's just plain poor customer service and if you expect your customers to learn your language do buy from you, you are not likely to succeed... (national) pride can get into the way of good business...

In my observation, people in hospitality in smaller countries tend to speak better English than in bigger (prouder, more nationalistic?) countries - Portugal better than Spain, Netherlands better than France and Cambodia or Laos better than Thailand. 

And over the last 10-15y in my opinion, English skills in Thailand hospitality have stagnated while they have improved greatly in Cambodia or Laos...

[Guest]

2 hours ago, EricV said:

In my observation, people in hospitality in smaller countries tend to speak better English than in bigger (prouder, more nationalistic?) countries - Portugal better than Spain, Netherlands better than France and Cambodia or Laos better than Thailand. 

And over the last 10-15y in my opinion, English skills in Thailand hospitality have stagnated while they have improved greatly in Cambodia or Laos...

In Thailand, plenty of hotels, restaurants and other businesses can make good money serving Thai clients.   So English isn't quite as important.   Cambodia and Laos are coming from a position where most of the population haven't had much money, so catering to foreigners is essential.    At the other extreme, you have somewhere like Japan, where many of the restaurants do not need money from overseas visitors and hence they do not cater to them.   No English menus and frequently no English spoken.

Also, the Thai economy is more developed, so the educated ones have a wider range of professional employment opportunities than they may have in Cambodia or Laos.   

 

 

[ChristianPFC]

On 2/2/2019 at 4:50 AM, 1moRussian said:

Always wanted to ask Christian how to ask "what about long time?" in Thai)

"Short time" translates as ชั่วคราว chûa kraao (short time, temporary), whereas what we call "long time" is ค้างคืน káang keun, literally "over night".

[ChristianPFC]

On 2/3/2019 at 2:43 PM, z909 said:

Anyway, can anyone here advise on how to find a really good language teacher?

No. Anyway, it depends on what you want to learn. My main interest is in reading, so I can understand what's written. Whereas most students, and subsequently most courses, focus on speaking and listening. I'm interested in grammar and history of a language, which I get from internet and books, but not from classes. And finally, there is this wonderful tool of the International Phonetic Alphabet, which I have never seen used in class (neither at school nor at adult education).

Once you have a certain level, language exchange is something to look into. The experience in Taipei (Chinese-German) was positive. In Thailand I haven't tried it yet as I travel a lot and cannot plan more than a day in advance.

The question is rather to study in class or individual courses. Both Thai (in 2011) and Chinese (in 2018) I started in class, but found large parts a waste of time, nay detrimental (when you talk with your classmates in the target language). I would say, the higher cost of individual courses is offset by having the full attention of your teacher and not being subjected to wrongly pronounced target language.

Pronunciation is actually the only part where I need a native speaker. And it took me a bit to get my teacher in Taiwan to understand not to stop correcting my pronunciation when she understands what I'm saying, but when it is correctly pronounced. Everything else I can study on my own, with books or internet.

[1moRussian]

My language observation from last trip:

As I have not been in Thailand for nearly 2 years, most of the guys I known have disappeared, so I was forced to establish new contacts.   Now they just say what they want in Google.translator at their phones and show me the results. And they even don't bother to write it (as me), they just say it. Although G.translator is not good yet with Camnbodian accent in Thai language and does a mess with time indication (Thai time system vs Western), it delivers quite good results.

So I am wondering if one needs to invest time and money in learning languages... Perhaps it is becoming a hobby as horse riding, for example, - you can do it, if you want, but no big practical sense... Although it is useful for your body (horse riding) and brains (foreign languages).

Personaly I use Thai words I know (~200) as conversation topics to get better contact with a guy: you can always name surrounding colors in Thai, read a simple word etc. And of coz telling something like 'mai ao' is very useful to end those endless attempts to sell you something unuseful at the beach or elsewhere 

What are your thoughts on this?

[DivineMadman]

7 hours ago, 1moRussian said:

My language observation from last trip:

As I have not been in Thailand for nearly 2 years, most of the guys I known have disappeared, so I was forced to establish new contacts.   Now they just say what they want in Google.translator at their phones and show me the results. And they even don't bother to write it (as me), they just say it. Although G.translator is not good yet with Camnbodian accent in Thai language and does a mess with time indication (Thai time system vs Western), it delivers quite good results.

So I am wondering if one needs to invest time and money in learning languages... Perhaps it is becoming a hobby as horse riding, for example, - you can do it, if you want, but no big practical sense... Although it is useful for your body (horse riding) and brains (foreign languages).

Personaly I use Thai words I know (~200) as conversation topics to get better contact with a guy: you can always name surrounding colors in Thai, read a simple word etc. And of coz telling something like 'mai ao' is very useful to end those endless attempts to sell you something unuseful at the beach or elsewhere 

What are your thoughts on this?

Just for common courtesy/respect I always learn the basics - greetings, thank you, no thank you, how much, check please, etc. and a new word or phrase every day of travel - wherever I go.  Now if I meet a guy from, for example, Myanmar, I can jokingly list the couple of Burmese words I remember.  It's a nice respectful ice-breaker that always earns me a smile.  I've found locals always appreciate the effort.

Beyond that I think it's optional.  Up to you.  Certainly around Thailand there are still lots of guys making their way to Bangkok with very little or no english, so it helps expand the pool of available guys and makes it a tad bit easier to get them to do what you want.  

To this day I regret an episode that happened many years ago when I barely knew any Thai and I was out someplace where the guys had no english and it turned out the guy I was with was asking me if I was looking for a bottom when I thought he was asking me if I wanted to bottom.  The one that got away!  

As you say, google translate is good even though sometimes very limited.  But the effort actually to learn a language would most likely eclipse the number of times the problems with google translate really make a difference for the average guy.

[hank75]

1 hour ago, DivineMadman said:

To this day I regret an episode that happened many years ago when I barely knew any Thai and I was out someplace where the guys had no english and it turned out the guy I was with was asking me if I was looking for a bottom when I thought he was asking me if I wanted to bottom.  The one that got away!  

Isn’t there universal sign language for situations like this? I find the appropriate hand gestures are usually sufficient. LOL

[DivineMadman]

6 minutes ago, hank75 said:

Isn’t there universal sign language for situations like this? I find the appropriate hand gestures are usually sufficient. LOL

yes but in this particular instance the usual graphics would have spoiled the moment.

 

[kokopelli]

For fun, here is an easy to remember expression that always get a smile/smirk from a Thai guy and impresses them with your knowledge of Thai.

ล้างตู้เย็น / L̂āng tū̂ yĕn = wash the refrigerator 

[1moRussian]

11 hours ago, kokopelli said:

For fun, here is an easy to remember expression that always get a smile/smirk from a Thai guy and impresses them with your knowledge of Thai.

ล้างตู้เย็น / L̂āng tū̂ yĕn = wash the refrigerator 

Meaning something interesting? Like flying kite, foe example?

[spoon]

It means like the emoji implies. Rimming lol

[DivineMadman]

6 hours ago, 1moRussian said:

Meaning something interesting? Like flying kite, foe example?

as Spoon said, it means rimming.  

One profane word for ass is dtut (ตูด).  That sounds a bit like the word for refrigerator dtu yen (ตู้เย็น), so dtu yen (ตู้เย็น) becomes another less "profane" way of saying ass/butt.  I once came across a post in a Thai language chatroom roughly translated "refrigerator secret mystery of men" and it was lots photos of cute guys' butts.  So then "wash the refrigerator" (ล้างตู้เย็น) =>  rimming.  At least that's my guess of the derivation.

[kokopelli]

It really is amusing when you try that expression on a Thai guy and see his reaction.

[ChristianPFC]

Automatic translation sometimes gives good results, in other occasions is useless. You have to consider that it works poorly for slang, and that's what most posts on facebook or online dating are. But for clear pronunciation / correct writing and standard language, results are good.

A recent example: I was in Central Plaza Westgate and got a message from a Thai who used online translation:

Quote

Entering the toilet class3

Can you guess what it means? To me it's immediately obvious, as the Thai word for "class" (in a school or university) and "level/storey" (in a bulding) is the same. So he was asking me to come to 3rd floor toilet.

[hank75]

I find the translation feature on social media (eg facebook) completely useless. Sometimes I click on it as I’m curious to read someone’s status or message and I just get gibberish. What on earth is “cuddle baht”.

Google translate works at a pinch if I am trying to explain something to a boy. Thai2English is the most helpful if someone Lines me something in Thai and I need to ensure accuracy before responding.