Where is the logic ?

[Guest]

#1.    Here I am in Isan and a masseur approaches me on one of the apps.

He's offering a 2 hour oil massage for a very reasonable 700 baht.   He would be naked and hand relief is included.   As far as I can tell, he looks quite fit, but as he's wearing large sunglasses and the entire upper half of the body is not really in focus, I don't know.

Might be a cute guy, or this might just be something like a much younger Vladimir Putin. 

So I ask for a clearer picture.

Him: "You already have.  Not ugly, right  ?"

Me "Yes, looks good, but picture is not clear.  Do you have clear pic ?"

Him: "Bye"

 

I don't quite get it.   A misunderstanding is unlikely as he seemed to have good English until that point.   

So I presume he really does look nowhere near as good as he's trying to imply with an out of focus pic & knows the game is up with a good pic.  Or am I missing something else ?

 

A better business model would be to send pics, do a massage and get paid.  Possibly even starting with a higher price.

[Guest]

You are not missing anything!  Probably dodged a bullet. Either not him or a very old photo!

[fedssocr]

or he figured some people don't really care all that much once he arrives as they are ready to get their massage, but others who do care might not be worth the hassle? I've encountered plenty of guys over the years in various venues who ended up looking nothing like their photos. 

[spoon]

Reason why i avoid apps and freelance in craigslist last time is this. I know i am missing a lot by avoiding this, but when im travelling for a short trip, the effort and time it took only to discover its not happening wont sit well with my short time available in thailand. 

But back home, i rarely use it too. We have a forum that one can post the picture/id and asked if the profile is real and if anyone have meet/use his service. Asking for clearer picture or video call is a good way to weed out fakes but some guy dont do it purely to save their data. One tips is to arrange the meeting in public places, so he will have to make himself recognizeable for you to find him, and easy for you to leave if its not as expected. Still too much effort with unclear result. Going to bar/massage centers is a better choice for me. 

[Guest]

In Planet Romeo's heyday, I would not be able to count how many boys I hired in Thailand and can't remember a single instance where the boy knocked on my door and I was disappointed . Well that's not quite true . I do remember a few and they were sent away with a 100 baht. If I had to guess on a % , it would easily be 90% that looked like the photos.Other countries not quite as good a %.  Same for me with Hornet. Most of the boys have multiple photos and at least in Thailand I was always happy who showed up at my door at least in Thailand  European Countries etc definitely some disappointments. 

Again much different for a visitor of 7-10 days vs 30-60 days .  Never was a big fan of massage parlors in Thailand except for foot massage . When you get to visit for a longer time you find that the APPS etc are quite good since unusual to find a GoGo Bar before 8pm and even hard to find a massage parlor in the morning if you have the urge..

Although I find both Romeo and Apps much more useful in Pattaya. BKK is just to big and most boys have no idea how to get to hotels and how long it will take them and really don't think the way many of us do in timely arrivals. I understand not for everyone, just as 500 baht drinks and 1000 and up off fees are rarity for me .

I'm sure I have but off hand I can't think of any boys who performed much different whether they were a 1000 short time or maybe 3000 and up all night. If anything some of the higher prices I paid would fall into the least performance category. I have never use Craigs List and similar , just because of all the disappointments I have heard about.

Really good luck with Romeo and Apps in Colombia and Spain . 1/2 and 1/2 in many other European Countries. and up 

 

Again it does take some patience . In Pattaya at least many  the boys on those sites work gogo bars or massage parlors or even have real jobs. Quite a few 7/11 boys.  Now if your type is Tawan Boy or similar then the apps etc might not be for you. But certainly plenty of gymnast type boys and slimmer.

[Guest]

Very rarely do I get someone who looks nothing like the photo, but if they are totally different, I send them away with nothing, since that deception is their responsibility.

More common is me missing something that they skillfully hide in the photos. This happens about once a year.   I go ahead with the meeting and re-learn the lesson to check the pics.   

Boy #2.    Boy contacts me on an app. Wants to meet for fun.  I am out walking, so am taking some time to respond & he is very prompt with the replies and keeps pushing to meet.  He wants to meet somewhere quiet near my hotel,  then go to my hotel.   He asks me to suggest somewhere. So I suggest a quiet coffee shop (that had no customers at all when I visited earlier).   Then no reply.

What am I missing here ?    Do people really get a kick out of wasting time ?  Or when faced with a meeting, has he rechecked my pics and realised that I'm not exactly Tom Daley ?

[spoon]

Exactly, i like those muscles boy, so with apps, its really hard to find one thst isnt fake, even if its not fake, it could be few years old pic, and once they stop working out, their body wont be as goood anymore. Some regulars back home does use apps and craiglists, and ive seen their ads/profile many times but i didnt engage them until someone from a forum told me the pic is real. Also had a bad experience, where the guy use someone else picture, but his looks/body is not bad so i still go ahead. Worse ever decision, very rush, lots of things he dont do and it was done in 20-30min... Didnt want to make a scene so i just pay up and go. Also read few reports of people being forced to pay or robbed, and worst thing is we dont have their real pic, so hard to warn others. These crooks will change pictures or have multiple fake profiles to bait victims. These are all in KL, and not thailand as i dont have time or patience to use apps in thailand lol

[spoon]

4 minutes ago, z909 said:

Very rarely do I get someone who looks nothing like the photo, but if they are totally different, I send them away with nothing, since that deception is their responsibility.

More common is me missing something that they skillfully hide in the photos. This happens about once a year.   I go ahead with the meeting and re-learn the lesson to check the pics.   

Boy #2.    Boy contacts me on an app. Wants to meet for fun.  I am out walking, so am taking some time to respond & he is very prompt with the replies and keeps pushing to meet.  He wants to meet somewhere quiet near my hotel,  then go to my hotel.   He asks me to suggest somewhere. So I suggest a quiet coffee shop (that had no customers at all when I visited earlier).   Then no reply.

What am I missing here ?    Do people really get a kick out of wasting time ?  Or when faced with a meeting, has he rechecked my pics and realised that I'm not exactly Tom Daley ?

He could have gotten a different guy while waiting for your respond?

[TotallyOz]

IMHO, this goes both ways. I hate apps for this reason. But, I have found some gems on them.  To me, it is more work than a bar. But, sitting at home or in a hotel, you can spend an hour or two and easily find someone you like.  How different is that than wasting time in a bar talking to guys that you are trying to find if you are compatible?

[DivineMadman]

Apps (Hornet) work fine for me and are an increasingly important part of my mix.  I always have a mental log of Hornet/Grindr guys on my "to-do list" and sometimes I will see them out and about in real life on the BTS, Suan Phlu, Soi 4, Soi Twilight, etc., and that will very often move someone up or down or off the list.  So more often than not I've actually seen the guys before I contact them.  As a longer-term resident, that works for me but alas not much help for others.     I have a VN friend who I occasionally travel with who seems to know a lot of the good guys and he happily volunteers to go through Hornet or Grindr to find ones he recommends.  (He even volunteered to do it for a friend once but the friend didn't want.)  

And then there are working guys on Hornet who I have lusted over for ages and when I finally decide they're at the top of this list and its their lucky day and I do them the great favor of contacting them --  they just ignore me entirely.  Always a refreshing and humbling experience.   But as I mentioned earlier, all this works for me and gives me a very high success rate, but probably it's because I play a very long game.

No doubt some of the app guys are flaky and even though it's their business --  and they certainly should know better -- they may stop mid-conversation or no-show or other bad behavior.  Even so, I do think what we experience is nothing compared to what they have to put up with:  the time wasters, nasty people, people just trying to collect dick pics, etc..  I don't think that's anyone on this Board, but there are a lot of uncivilized types out there, so it's why I move very quickly no-nonsense to seal the deal with l a guy, if he actually responds to my "Hi."  

[ggobkk]

Add my two cents (baht) to this topic...before Rentboy was closed down, I had a couple of good encounters and one horrible one - he'd taken on several tattoos, was being evicted by his hotel (his choice for out meeting place), and he had performance issues.  The hotel security arriving to evict saved me, oh more accurately, my $$.

In London I use Sleepyboy and have been happy with the offs.

On last two Thailand trips, Planet Romeo has worked well.  In one case we met at a coffee shop, the other in my room.

 

[Guest]

Well, in Thailand in particular, there are many exchanges on the apps which result in  a gorgeous guy showing up at my hotel, followed by having a good time and the agreed tip, or more being paid.

However, as with many things in life, improving results from looking at what didn't work and figuring out how to deal with it better.     Hence, the success stories haven't been posted in this thread so far.

[forky123]

If I had to wager, I’d bet the boys get messed about far more than the farangs on the apps. If they’ve gone quiet either they think you are wasting their time, they’ve got something else to do or they’ve got a better offer. Move on to the next.

I tend to use apps and massage shops much more than bars for boys. I find there are as many boys who look better in RL than they do in an app picture as look worse. Also, looks are all very well, but I’d rate good massage and good sex above looks any time.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, forky123 said:

If I had to wager, I’d bet the boys get messed about far more than the farangs on the apps. 

 

Truer words were never spoken. As someone who has had boys use my computer to sign in to various sites such as GayRomeo etc , and then forget to sign out it is hard to believe what the boys have to deal with. It is not a one way street!

[ChristianPFC]

Poor pictures is a general problem. As is picture is not the profile owner. If in doubt, ask for more pictures. Or rather I send him a clear face picture of myself from recent sightseeing, hoping he gets the hint to send a clear face picture of himself.

"Sensory overload" is the key word here. When I watch a movie in English with Thai subtitles, or in Thai with English subtitles, I cannot translate the Thai in real time and compare it with the English. A boy who is active on social networks cannot process all the data, and unless he is very horny or very in need of your money, once your chat falls behind, you are out of sight and out of mind.

In 2013, I took a boy from Banana Bar Soi Twilight overnight for 2000 THB. About 2015, I still saw him working there and on the apps. I considered taking him again and asked to see his private pictures to refresh my memory. His reply was "You know already.". That was the end of our conversation.

I wish more people posted on the gay online dating forum, so we can avoid the problem cases and reward the good ones with more business. And I find other people's experiences, matched with pictures or links to profiles, highly interesting and it's one of my favorite with to talk about with friends. Those who like this kind of conversation, we go through all the boys we had since we last met.

 

[1moRussian]

Yep, maybe it were your words Christian, about number of the messages in avarage Thai app...

Last time in Pattaya I saw a sexy guy in Hornet, presumably at BT. Tryed to contact him with simple questions - the communication was very slowly. After a week of it I spotted him in a gogo and had a quite nice overnight, we got along well despite his weak English and my weaker Thai, and even had occasional messages in Line/FB next half of the year later... When I asked him, why he was so slow in answering me, he showed his Hornet - it had something like 200 unread messages. So, it's really "out of the first screen, out of my mind" thing 

Hehe, I've found a present I left for the guy in his gogo and some of my Thai writings:

 

 

 

 

[vinapu]

16 hours ago, ChristianPFC said:

A boy who is active on social networks cannot process all the data,

 

2 hours ago, 1moRussian said:

........, he showed his Hornet - it had something like 200 unread messages. 

this confirms  what we suspect all along with new technologies, easiness of communication makes actually much harder like everybody receiving 187 e-mails daily at work can attest

[Guest]

I was in Khon Kaen at the time.  The guy might have been overloaded with other messages, but it's unlikely he would have many from potential customers.  

I presume his sales closing rate with a clear picture is very poor.

[floridarob]

6 hours ago, vinapu said:

 

this confirms  what we suspect all along with new technologies, easiness of communication makes actually much harder like everybody receiving 187 e-mails daily at work can attest

Harder, yes....but you answered them I bet.....Thais will just leave them unread, lol

A German friend that lives in BKK for about 20 yrs told me once, and I believe it holds true to all third world countries..... unless you or family is RICh, or you open a business or a government employee....if you are ambitious and hard working you find a way to get out to another country and better yourself (USA, Australia, Canada, U.K....etc.) , which leaves just conformists (slackers)...luckily for the wealthy and people that go looking for hookups (sex) that wouldn't happen otherwise...... interesting observation ;-) 

 

[spoon]

22 minutes ago, floridarob said:

Harder, yes....but you answered them I bet.....Thais will just leave them unread, lol

A German friend that lives in BKK for about 20 yrs told me once, and I believe it holds true to all third world countries..... unless you or family is RICh, or you open a business or a government employee....if you are ambitious and hard working you find a way to get out to another country and better yourself (USA, Australia, Canada, U.K....etc.) , which leaves just conformists (slackers)...luckily for the wealthy and people that go looking for hookups (sex) that wouldn't happen otherwise...... interesting observation ;-) 

 

Id further add to this observation, that there is also stark different between the educated and non educated and between those who born and live in the city vs rural. Its true that working overseas, not just the low salary job but even for doctors, engineers, scientist, are more lucrative in developed nation. I made more working part time no qualification required job in my university year in the states than my first full time degree qualified job after graduating back home. I have several friends who chose to stay and work in the states too. 

[Guest]

Good reading material would be "The Wealth & Poverty of Nations" by David Landes.

I would suggest that:

1  Around the world, you find educated intelligent people in both cities and the countryside.   And losers in both.

2  When someone tries to work as a prostitute, but seems to lack the aptitude to make it work, they cannot be the brightest.   A more rational approach would be either do something else for a living OR go about it with an attitude and a sales pitch that might just get some success.   Being half baked makes no sense.

 

Anyway, before crowing too much, many (but not all) of us have benefited from an awful lot of luck, such as:

1 Being bought up in countries with good education systems and opportunities to get a university education.

2 Being able to earn quite good money in normal professional jobs.

3 Living in a great era for cheap travel etc.

OK, I know we have sometimes had to take a lot of initiative as well, but life has been way easier than it might have been 200 years ago, or if we grew up in somewhere like Cambodia (In the 1970s).

 

 

[ChristianPFC]

There is one masseur No in former Lomchoey, now Zy massage in Soi Ngamduplee, who is my type but was only so-so when I had massage with him some years ago, who is on hornet with a profile mostly in Thai, but having "no sex" in English. It puzzles me why someone who works in gay massage would put "no sex" in his online dating profile. If I didn't know him, I would skip him for that reason.

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, ChristianPFC said:

There is one masseur No in former Lomchoey, now Zy massage in Soi Ngamduplee, who is my type but was only so-so when I had massage with him some years ago, who is on hornet with a profile mostly in Thai, but having "no sex" in English. It puzzles me why someone who works in gay massage would put "no sex" in his online dating profile. If I didn't know him, I would skip him for that reason.

if he doesn't speak English perhaps one of his friends helped him to set account and played practical joke with him ?

[spoon]

6 hours ago, ChristianPFC said:

There is one masseur No in former Lomchoey, now Zy massage in Soi Ngamduplee, who is my type but was only so-so when I had massage with him some years ago, who is on hornet with a profile mostly in Thai, but having "no sex" in English. It puzzles me why someone who works in gay massage would put "no sex" in his online dating profile. If I didn't know him, I would skip him for that reason.

Or that profile is for him to find someobe for long term relationship rather than for work?

[sglad]

Just out of curiosity, why aren't people using Whatsapp, Line or FaceTime video call to verify their potential dates?  All it takes is five seconds to verify their face and body.