2018 Bar Tips Poll Results

[Guest]

Note:   The polls remain open after I have published this post, so this summarizes the situation at the time of publication.

 

Pattaya Short Time

84% offed Twinks  & 45% offed Muscle guys

The average short time tip to twinks is 1200 baht, however 43% of them have to make do with 1000 baht.

he average short time tip to muscle guys is 1360 baht, however 55% of them get 1500 or more

 

 

Pattaya Long Time

83% offed Twinks  & 38% offed Muscle guys.   A similar ratio to short time, as expected.

The average long time tip in Pattaya is 1900 for twinks and 2050 for muscle guys.  

 

Muscle guys get about 8~12% more on average.   I have no idea why, but as a twink lover, I'm not complaining.

There is quite a spread of tips. 

 

 

Bangkok

Due to making it up as I go along, I did not split the Bangkok poll the same way.

89% did short time offs and 64% did long time.

The average short time tip is 1884 baht & the average long time tip is 3000.

 

I guess there might be a differential between twinks & muscle guys, same as in Pattaya.

 

Incidentally, the participation rate in the Pattaya long time poll was 90% of that in the short time poll, so we might conclude long time is more common in Pattaya

 

It has been suggested that I do a poll showing tips according to where people were offed from.   So please be patient if another poll pops up shortly.   Suggestions on how to structure that are welcome.

 

Please note, in the following graphs, the percentages are calculated based on the participants who actually offed in the category.

 

[paborn]

Superb work! 

 

As to the bar, I was wondering if it is possible to list the bars. Bangkok:

Jupiter, Moonlight, Screw Boys, G Boys, Dreamboys, Classic boys, X men, etc.

Pattaya:

Toy Boys, Cupidol, etc. I'm not sure what is still open in either place. Allow posters to check all that apply as to where we off from - not visit but likely to off from.

[vinapu]

 

 

 

Muscle guys get about 8~12% more on average.   I have no idea why,

 

 

 

perhaps because they are rarer species or their lovers tend to have more generous vacation budget ?

[faranglaw]

perhaps because they are rarer species or their lovers tend to have more generous vacation budget ?

In other words, vinapu, you personally have skewed the results? ;-)

[Londoner]

I too have been wondering why twinks are paid, on average, less than muscle-guys. Is it something to do with age?   And is it the assumption that twinks are bottoms and muscle-guys tops?

[Guest]

An interesting question.   We only have about 20 people offing muscle guys. 

If they are offing from the bars like Boyz Boyz Boyz & Tawan AND those bars have succeeded in setting higher expectations, then perhaps this is a contributor.

There was also one case where a muscle guy made it clear to a prominent member that the already generous tip wasn't enough & the member thought things might get messy, so paid up.  If this happens with a much smaller guy, there would be less risk in asking him to leave.  Actually, I have NEVER had a guy ask for more money in a threatening manner, so they probably realize it isn't going to work either.

However, I doubt the implied threat from a larger guy has any meaningful effect on the results (in Thailand).

[Jasper]

Why muscle lovers are paying more than twink lovers?

 

For me, the answer is easy.

 

Because muscle lovers are competing with more generous Chinese and Asian customers. They are setting the cost of the tip these days. It’s more likely Asian goes for muscular guys than twink boys.

Whereas older farangs who come to Thailand for 10 years or more who off twinks are not raising tip.

 

By the way, I have a question, why there aren’t any STAR gogo TWINK boys.

I am talking about gogo boys not a porn models.

 

We hear about Mekhin and Tam and others but I have never heard discussion about a twink boy XX in Soi Twilight or Pattaya.

Is it because twinks have shorter sell by date?

Younger good look fades easily than muscle?

 

Or perhaps muscle lovers tend to worship their muscle gods whereas twink lovers don’t.

[Guest]

By the way, I have a question, why there aren’t any STAR gogo TWINK boys.

I am talking about gogo boys not a porn models.

 

I have on just a couple of times over the years seen 10/10 ultra cute Twink boys trying to ask for higher tips than normal (before the off).  

As the 8/10 boys are still very nice indeed & probably at least as good in bed, if not better, I've just declined the ones with ultra expensive tastes.  

[paborn]

I have on just a couple of times over the years seen 10/10 ultra cute Twink boys trying to ask for higher tips than normal (before the off).  

As the 8/10 boys are still very nice indeed & probably at least as good in bed, if not better, I've just declined the ones with ultra expensive tastes.  

I think you were right the first time. It's the bar environment.  Remember Studio 54 and the hype? There was nothing, absolutely nothing inside that was not available in the other clubs of NYC. But, give the hype, the glitz, the marketing, etc. etc. and you create a sense of scarcity and push the cost up.

 

I have yet to see Moonlight. However, I well remember the hype of Jupiter 2000, the Millenial opening, the "MODELS" ( models you could find in any gym in Bangkok! ). I went and saw nothing I wanted. But, I did see the glitz and a huge attempt to create glamor - the preferred seating, the special this and special that, the attitude.  I took myself off to Dreamboys ( much different in those days ) a good reliable bar with a wide range of guys.

 

Make no mistake, the muscle guys play to a narrow section of the customer base and if you use that hype and narrowness to create a sense of higher taste and call it special, rather than just another choice, you can charge a higher price. Take a look at the threads here that go on and on about certain guys. Fine, I get that you like them and you can suggest over and over that, I must come and see for myself. But, I have seen and there is not a single one of them that I want to sit with, dine with, or make love to.  Mekhin and Tam to me are NOT attractive at all and I value them at zero. Harsh? Yes, but I say it to make my point that the "boy next door" never gets the hype, but they are the ones you bring off to Mom or, in our case, take off.

 

So, come January I'll see the majority of you guys at Srewboys and Toyboys.

 

By the way, I'm not, in any way, denigrating the taste of those who prefer muscles but realize that the very narrowness of the market creates a market scarcity that drives higher prices. Yes, there are fewer muscle boys, but then the business owners know damn well that the market is narrow and don't recruit thus keeping it even more narrow. They create "stars" and market them

Also, before it's pointed out that this is my opinion let me add that: yes, of course, it is.

[daydreamer]

I fully agree with paborn on this.  I believe this premium pricing has been going on a long time at Tawan.  If they can command these sky high prices, good for them as long as some customers are willing to pay that inflated rate for the stars.   

[vinapu]

In other words, vinapu, you personally have skewed the results? ;-)

actually , surprisingly perhaps even to  myself my votes are in the mainstream in almost all categories, I must start becoming more generous

[Guest FASAJIP]

Very interesting work ... I am satisfied to be in the average for twinks long time witch are my taste in Pattaya.

[PeterRS]

Im sure devising polls is far from easy as there will always be someone or some group whose tastes are not catered for. But I wonder why less than 50 have responded to all three of z909s polls. Is this average for gaythailand polls? I ask only because it seems tiny percentage of both membership and readership. So can they be anywhere near an accurate reflection of the views of the forum as a whole? Or just the smallish group of regular posters whose trip reports we all enjoy?

[Guest]

But I wonder why less than 50 have responded to all three of z909s polls. Is this average for gaythailand polls? I ask only because it seems tiny percentage of both membership and readership. So can they be anywhere near an accurate reflection of the views of the forum as a whole? Or just the smallish group of regular posters whose trip reports we all enjoy?

 

An interesting question.   I did a little research in response to this.

These results were published 7 days after the polls were started.

 

Using the board tools, I can see that 60 people posted on the board on the 7 days before today.   That will be approximately the same as the number for the 7 days when the poll was running.

 

44 people voted in the Bangkok and Pattaya ST poll, so 73% of active posters over a 7 day period

40 people votes in the Pattaya LT poll, so 66.7% of the active posters

 

We don't know if it's the same 44. My guess is that not all participants off in both cities.

Some may not participate due to having a BF, hardly ever offing anyone and people who do not want to participate. 

 

This is not a bad participation rate.  Also, a poll is a much better way of gathering data than trying to pick through a a board debate on the topic of tips.  A poll does get a larger sample size.

 

What would increase the participation rate further would be some software which only makes the poll results visible to people who have participated. I have seen this on newspaper websites.

 

If I were to run a more detailed poll, to establish what people pay according to what type of hook up method they use, as has been suggested, then some kind of incentive to participate is needed.

 

Possible scope: premium gogo bars, cheaper gogo bars, phone apps, host bars, other.  This might need me to check out Survey Monkey or something like that.

[traveller123]

Here is one contributor who didn't vote for the reason Z909 stated in the post above - I have a long time partner and never off anyone (but do enjoy a massage).

 

Incidentally I do like the website which I find helpful and the contributors civilised and not prone to insulting comments - and I am an avid reader of the reports of offs to see what I'm missing!

[anddy]

Some may not participate due to [...] hardly ever offing anyone [...]

that would be me....

 

as for muscle guys commanding a premium over others: seems kinda obvious to me. They invest a lot of time and presumably money to get there, so they want some return on that investment. Fair enough. Whether or not the market (or rather, the relevant market segment of muscle  lovers) is willing to grant that return is another matter, but the poll results suggest it does. 

[hank75]

Also because muscle guys tend to be older? Past the age and stage of selling themselves cheap, they know what they’re worth.

[vinapu]

Here is one contributor who didn't vote for the reason Z909 stated in the post above - I have a long time partner and never off anyone (but do enjoy a massage).

 

 

I actually considered massages as short time offs in my responses

[vinapu]

Also because muscle guys tend to be older? Past the age and stage of selling themselves cheap, they know what they’re worth.

I think you hit the nail !

[paborn]

Also because muscle guys tend to be older? Past the age and stage of selling themselves cheap, they know what they’re worth.

A theory, but I don't see any data to support it. If you are not in the market for that type then cheap/expensive or any degree in between in of no matter. I'll tell you when I raise the tip - when I'm having a great time. Also, in general, those boys outside Toy Boys who some here think can't be offed. Well, I pay them, for their beauty and I think they're worth it - age does not enter into it at all. Frankly, age only narrows the market niche for the vast majority of gay men guys have a shelf life with decreasing value. What "they" might think their worth is not a factor at all.

[vinapu]

 What "they" might think their worth is not a factor at all.

of course it is.

After all it's guys , all, twinks , hunks and all between and only them who really know their market value and what market pays them.

 

we can observe only that much when visiting bars, unless one camps in the bar night after night , from opening to closing,  we have only vague idea of how often buys are offed and really nothing of how much those offs are generating for them.

 

Boy may be sitting with 5 customers over the night and treated with 5 drinks but may be tipped for his efforts pretty stingy, like 20 baht a sitting ,  another one seems abandoned and glued to his phone  but client who was sitting with him perhaps 5 minutes could leave him 500 baht as a tip. 

[Guest]

of course it is.

Agreed.

Pricing is influenced by what the service provider is prepared to accept and what the customer is prepared to pay.

Supply and demand, although both supply and demand are price sensitive.

 

If the muscle boys in certain bars push for higher tips AND the customers are prepared to pay those tips, you have higher tips.

 

If the boys in a certain bar push for too much, the customers may choose to go to another bar.   If there is a better choice of twinks in bars where they have more modest tips, tips are lower.

 

What the customer can afford comes into it too.   If the baht fell by 30%, then all those tipping about 17~1800 long time will be much more inclined to round up to 2000.   If the baht rises by 30%, some of the customers may be looking for the best value. 

[paborn]

If the muscle boys in certain bars push for higher tips AND the customers are prepared to pay those tips, you have higher tips.

 

 

If the boys in a certain bar push for too much, the customers may choose to go to another bar.   If there is a better choice of twinks in bars where they have more modest tips, tips are lower.

 

I think you have both misread my statement. I was talking about supply and demand. When I said that, " what they think is not a factor"  I was referring to a type that I would not take free. I know some of the muscle lovers here find that hard to believe so let me repeat. I do not want, like, desire, find hot, sexy, sensual, etc. the guys at Tawan and the Models at Moonlight.  What they think is not important - the customer must agree or he is not getting it no matter what his thought process. Merchandise can be priced out of a market.

 

Vinapu, your remarks above are correct but, actually, have nothing to do with what I was talking about. The people who run Jupiter and Moonlight have done brilliant marketing and have raised the market worth of their offerings. I think that is obvious. On the other hand, a Mr. Tam can value himself all he wants you have to be willing to pay it and a niche group is - the vast majority has shown in the polls are not.

[vinapu]

 

 I know some of the muscle lovers here find that hard to believe so let me repeat. I do not want, like, desire, find hot, sexy, sensual, etc. the guys at Tawan and the Models at Moonlight.  

When was last time you actually were in Moonlight or Tawan ?

 

anyways, what is so hard to believe ?

 

Anybody who is sitting in say , Maxi for more than 15 minutes between 10-11 p.m. will for sure see customer salivating and proudly marching with guy we would not even gave second glance , whatever our preferences are .

 

And hundreds are walking with beautiful girls none of us wants. likes , desires , find hot , sexy , sensual etc.

 

I'm pretty sure that whatever your favorite type is  you still find plenty specimens of that type  you will not want , like.... 

[paborn]

As I said in a previous thread: I know you know that I have never been in Moonlight - other than when it was Jupiter. Continuing on the rest of your remark has nothing to do with my discussion of the marketing of the niche market at those bars. My entire thesis is that there are loads of different types, desires, and fantasies that can be fulfilled. Yes, you're making my point. The bars like Moonlight have focused on one niche and have superbly marketed it to raise the market price of their product and promote their business. Kudos to them.

 

However, that does not mean there is a "real" value to them only a perceived one held by the admirers of that type.