Just the tip

[vinapu]

I guess some would argue you maybe driving the prices up by offering more ?

 

Its good if you can afford it and your on a high salary or retired or whatever but I certainly dont expect every farang to be able to afford to overtip sex workers , not everyone has the money , I dont think anyone should feel guilty because they haggled with a sex worker.

1. driving prices up or down is market's job , not single , even most stingy or most  generous client's

 

2. exceptional service should carry exceptional price tag , otherwise why bother to perform  better for uniform "going" rate.

   Overpaying happens when one pays too much for something which could be acquired easily cheaper.

 

3. Living and spending within one's means is actually virtue, I'd never vacation in Cayman Islands or one of Mr. Trump resorts.

    because I know I can't afford but spending extra 15$ for and additional kiss and smile, sure , yes.

This is what I spent for  dinner today and it did not taste even half as good  as that smile which I remember to this day and chances are  in one month   I will not remember what i had for dinner on Nov 10. 

 

4. Nothing wrong with  haggling price down if one thinks it can be lowered in a fair way but no need to make spectacle out of it.

In short offering  500 less  may sound fair but  wasting  time over 100 baht on 1500 invoice seems waste of precious vacation time 

[hank75]

because I know I can't afford but spending extra 15$ for and additional kiss and smile, sure , yes.

 

Sorry if this sounds like a silly question. How do you (all members not just vinapu) feel knowing that the extra affection the boy shows for you is the result of a hefty additional tip? Accept this is the reality of the business or do you lean towards favourites who are genuinely affectionate regardless of tip?

 

I ask because I made the amateur mistake of overtipping when hearing the infamous “up to you” so as not to appear stingy. And now am aware one of my preferred boys is available to other customers for far less and when I meet him several times on one trip, it adds up. But am not sure if his affection/service will drop if I try to cut back on him. Would be nice to easily find a new favourite but he is just right for me. Also I suppose part of me is dreading discovering that all the affection I enjoy which seems genuine is nothing more than dollar signs in his eyes hahaha.

[paborn]

Tips are for service rendered, as in past tense. The service is done. So I don't tip to get it,  I reward it when it happens.  On the other hand, if he is just wonderful and I hand over the minimum then I really am stingy and deserve the reputation I will get.

 

As for your favorite. If you can't afford it it is fair and legitimate to tell him you want to be with him several more times but must reduce the tip. If he says no, move on.

 

I don't know if there is a right or wrong but this is what I would do.

[bucknaway]

Hand over the minimum? What is the minimum?

[hank75]

Tips are for service rendered, as in past tense. The service is done. So I don't tip to get it, I reward it when it happens. On the other hand, if he is just wonderful and I hand over the minimum then I really am stingy and deserve the reputation I will get.

 

As for your favorite. If you can't afford it it is fair and legitimate to tell him you want to be with him several more times but must reduce the tip. If he says no, move on.

 

I don't know if there is a right or wrong but this is what I would do.

Good advice. Thanks.

[vinapu]

 How do you (all members not just vinapu) feel knowing that the extra affection the boy shows for you is the result of a hefty additional tip? ....

 

I ask because I made the amateur mistake of overtipping when hearing the infamous “up to you” so as not to appear stingy. And now am aware one of my preferred boys is available to other customers for far less and when I meet him several times on one trip, it adds up. But am not sure if his affection/service will drop if I try to cut back on him. Would be nice to easily find a new favourite but he is just right for me. Also I suppose part of me is dreading discovering that all the affection I enjoy which seems genuine is nothing more than dollar signs in his eyes hahaha.

You simply think too much like boys say.

 

Like paborn  explained above it's other way around.  Tip is increased because performance, in case I described above tip was actually discussed and set so boy knew what he will get. In fact it's almost always a case with my guys- I like compensation and time frame set before we go.

 

Pay to your guy what he is worth to YOU, if you gladly repeatedly take him off obviously there's no mistake and no overtipping.

If you say he is right for you why you worry about payment in such dream come true situation we all with to be in.

 

Sure if you feel he is too expensive just jump the bell and tell him that you can give him only  xxx instead of xxx +500. Sure you risk discovering that he doesn't like you anymore, in such a case at least your question will be answered. Big chances are though, with repeated offs, that he will not blink an eye.

 

Read my  October trip report and this was a case with one of Moonlight guys I offed on my first and also last night, I was running out of money so told him up front what new , substantially reduced tip will be  without any explanation and he took it matter of factly , no slightest decrease in performance  . 

 

Keep in mind , like everybody else , guys like repeated custom not only for money but also as self -esteem booster when his bar friend see that HIS farang came  perhaps to off him again. 

 

 

Sure boy may go with others for less so you feel you are taken advantage of but you don't know if there's another side of equation. He may have customers lavishing on him much more than you do and he still goes with you gladly as you can see.

 

One of Jupiter boys drives shiny motorcycle give to him by grateful customer and still  smilingly goes with me long time for the same tip I gave him when we met first time few years ago at different bar , never even hinting he'd like more 

[Guest]

Tip what he is worth to you, h

 

Pay to your guy what he is worth to YOU

To an extent, yes, however tipping should still have some reference to market rates.    If you tip 500, it's not going to work and tipping 5000 is not recommended unless you're very wealthy.

 

What he's worth to you also depends on your own financial circumstances.  

I like to consider short and long term financial circumstances.  Maybe we can afford generous tips when working, but I like to make sure I'm also saving for retirement, so I can still afford holidays then.   

Admittedly, taking care over finances for the 11 months of working is more important than the 1 month of holiday & I set higher budgets if going to expensive places on holiday (such as Soi Twilight).  

 

So I reference tips to the "going rate" & the tip may be increased by 2~300 baht if things have gone well. 

 

A good performance also dramatically increases their chances of getting a second off during the trip and a poor performance means I will not be offing them again. 

I don't raise the subject of money in bars, but will provide guidance on the tip if they ask.

 

So I don't operate exactly like Vinapu, but readers of his excellent trip reports will note he has a great time on holiday.   I do also.    Both ways can work.

 

 

 

Sure if you feel he is too expensive just jump the bell and tell him that you can give him only xxx instead of xxx +500. Sure you risk discovering that he doesn't like you anymore, in such a case at least your question will be answered. Big chances are though, with repeated offs, that he will not blink an eye.

Read my October trip report and this was a case with one of Moonlight guys I offed on my first and also last night, I was running out of money so told him up front what new , substantially reduced tip will be without any explanation and he took it matter of factly , no slightest decrease in performance .

This is a good way of dealing with matters if you have started off tipping someone more than you intend to.

 

A "lazy" way of dealing with it is just to go to other bars for the duration of your holiday. However, if you like your boy or there are other cute lads in the bar, do it as Vinapu recommends.

 

Incidentally, if I go to a bar with a stand out boy and he's asking for more money than normal, he stands a slightly better chance of getting my off if he is the only candidate in the bar. If the place is well stocked with talent, I don't want to start off by paying their star performer a high tip, as all the other boys I would like to off will want that too.

[bobsaigon]

In my post to the Please help me thread, I wondered why anyone would come to a forum looking for opinions and advice from complete strangers about personal decisions regarding tipping or other interaction with Thai MB’s.

 

But upon reflection, I realized that that is exactly what I should have done when I started my explorations in gay Thailand 20 years ago, instead of allowing myself to be guided/misguided solely by the compulsions of my nether region.

 

And I realized that those coming to ask advice or opinions may have nowhere else to turn, unable to ask advice from friends who have no Thai experience, or are simply very new to the whole vortex of the gay Thai world.

 

A new thread entitled “Advice from the Guru(s)” or “Accumulated knowledge of the past x number of decades in gay Thailand”, might actually prove very enlightening for the inexperienced punter.    Not expecting him to follow advice religiously, but giving him a general feeling of how other people handle themselves and their encounters in Thailand.

 

So now, to those unsure of the survival strategies they should adopt in Thailand, I say, “Welcome, maybe we can help, or at least we can reveal the various mindsets of experienced gay travelers and residents of the country, with the caveat that some of us are still making the same mistakes that we made 20 or 30 years ago.”  lol

 

Pai, la kap.   Choke dee, na. 

[paborn]

Bob, I totally agree. Back in the 80"s I would have been terrified if the Allen books did not exist and I had not run across the first volume in a gay bookstore in Greenwich village.

 

But, are you suggesting more than the recently collected "timeless Knowledge" forum on this site?

[paborn]

Hand over the minimum? What is the minimum?

 

How can you ask this when you have been part of numerous threads regarding the expected tips Bangkok vs Pattaya?

[Jasper]

I guess some would argue you maybe driving the prices up by offering more ?

 

Its good if you can afford it and your on a high salary or retired or whatever but I certainly dont expect every farang to be able to afford to overtip sex workers

Perhaps not every farang can afford generous tip but Chinese tourists just might be able to overtip much more than farang’s idea of reasonable market standard.

 

At least in Bangkok since I have no knowledge of Pattaya scene, the majority market force is Chinese and other Asian customers so the tipping standard of gogo bars in Bangkok is up to them to determine whether we like it or not.

 

I have seen Asian customers generously tip Jupiter boys on stage, tipping 1000 baht note to several cute boys or gifting garland of Thai baht notes.

It seems that Asian customers enjoy flaunting money around in gogo bar these days.

[bucknaway]

How can you ask this when you have been part of numerous threads regarding the expected tips Bangkok vs Pattaya?

Your minimum may be different than my minimum. My minimum the agreed tip amount. What minimum are you referring to?

[witty]

Once the tip is agreed upon, the quantum shouldn't be an issue, even if the amount is only 500b.

[paborn]

The consensus of EXPECTED has nothing to do with your or my minimums. 

 

The agreed upon amount is the result of your discussion, not a minimum expected. If English is not your first language I apologize but this is really simple nomenclature.

 

I refer you to our "Timeless information" forum:

 

 Understand what the going rate is for tipping your lad after any sex.  As this may slowly increase from year to year, search for polls and discussion results on the topic on this site.   Beware that expectations from Bangkok gogo bars seem about 500 baht above those in Pattaya.    [A search for Polls brings up several options like this: http://www.gaythaila...attaya/?hl=poll

 

We have discussed this endlessly for many years.

 

To assist I did a quick search and this is but one note:

"One general note: I pay for services at the going market rate. So short time in Bangkok is 2000 THB, long-time 3000. In Pattaya, it’s 1500 for short time and I didn’t discuss a long time, though the Toy Boys mamasan said 2000 plus."

[abidismaili]

Currently Pattaya is 1000 baht short time. 

[paborn]

I've heard that as well. My point, however, is that we all are aware of the boys having perceived expectations of what they will earn.

 

I'll start a new thread asking for current amounts.

[bobsaigon]

.........    But, are you suggesting more than the recently collected "timeless Knowledge" forum on this site?

 

Sorry, I have never even opened the Timeless Knowledge forum.  Will do so tomorrow.  

[vinapu]

............. anyone would come to a forum looking for opinions and advice from complete strangers 

 

that has advantage of getting answer / opinion which is not tailored to what person asking may be perceived as wanting to hear. 

 

for example if you know I don't like pizza , you'd never recommended Madrid tavern's ones to me and I happened to like THEIR pizza.

[vinapu]

I have seen Asian customers generously tip Jupiter boys on stage, tipping 1000 baht note to several cute boys or gifting garland of Thai baht notes.

It seems that Asian customers enjoy flaunting money around in gogo bar these days.

not only at  Jupiter, last month I saw the same thousand baht tips in Moonlight / Chinese looking guy sitting in front of me  had actually a list  with numbers, must have distributed at least 5 1000 baht tips and to my astonishment he did not bother to stuff it into guy's undies himself but had waiter to hand over that tip, I guess for all around to see /  and in BBB Boyztown.

 

Great point you underscored - it's not farangs who are setting market forces in motion in boy bars of Boyztown and Silom / Suriowong / Twilight areas

[paborn]

that has advantage of getting answer / opinion which is not tailored to what person asking may be perceived as wanting to hear. 

 

for example if you know I don't like pizza , you'd never recommended Madrid tavern's ones to me and I happened to like THEIR pizza.

 

Oh Vinapu, I'm not so sure of that I have taken your advice to, at least, check out Moonlight and just because my Viennese Grandmother would have a heart attack just hearing about gravy on schnitzel, I will still take your advice about Maxi's so you can expect me to recommend to you anything I like in the chance you'll give it a try.

[vinapu]

Once the tip is agreed upon, the quantum shouldn't be an issue, even if the amount is only 500b.

and who suggested it ever was ?

 

Yes sometimes guy asks for extra taxi money but I never had a case when they asked in the room  for higher tip than agreed - and in 11 cases out of 12   I have tip set in stone before we go .

[vinapu]

Oh Vinapu, I'm not so sure of that I have taken your advice to, at least, check out Moonlight and just because my Viennese Grandmother would have a heart attack just hearing about gravy on schnitzel, I will still take your advice about Maxi's so you can expect me to recommend to you anything I like in the chance you'll give it a try.

as dearly as we loved our grandmothers culinary speaking they belonged to different era, before high  cholesterol was invented.

 

At Maxi you don't get gravy, you get mushroom sauce in a separate dish which you can consume way you want, not necessarily by soaking schnitzel in it.

 

I welcome advises and sometimes consume them. Tawan bar ,Nantra Silom , Raya , Classrooms, Baan Silom hotels, Madrid Tavern and Salt and Pepper restaurants, M from Senso , Nicky from Moonlight, Bon from Hero are all great inventions I learned about on this forum ( in case of Tawan I knew before but forum encouraged me to go inside ) 

[bucknaway]

Hearing about the Chinese guy giving 1000 baht tips. this made me think back to the 70's. I remember movies about the mafia and pimps doing such things to groom their prey. They would give out the "free" money and later explain how that money was just the crumbs. They would lure them away from the bar and lock them into the situation the victim would have never agreed to if they were not blinded by the money and tricked by the person handing out the cash.

[vinapu]

Hearing about the Chinese guy giving 1000 baht tips. this made me think back to the 70's. I remember movies about the mafia and pimps doing such things to groom their prey

This is what happens when people watch too much of TV.

[bucknaway]

Ok, but when the guys are stuck in China trying to get home, remember my post haha