Learning the Language

[fedssocr]

yeah, we'll see re: Travis. The new version is supposed to have improved greatly. They say they use several different translation engines and choose the best one for the language at hand. For sure Google translate is useless for more than a couple of words. Let's just say I don't have high expectations.

[Guest]

From my experience studying other non European languages, lessons once a week are not much use, even when I was doing self study in between.

Increasing that to twice a week was way better than twice as good. I think there is a benefit in having the brain tested more frequently.

 

Also, no matter how much work you put in, the quality of the teaching makes a difference.

 

As for Thailand, how easy is it to find & hire a decent language teacher for 1:1 tuition ?

[Nasherich]

I agree totally z909 - frequency is key.

 

I'm interested in the AUA method as mentioned on the original "retirement" thread. Most language learning centres on being about to speak and write but listening to and understanding a fast speaking native speaker is a real challenge and AUA seems to really address this.

[a447a]

"Also, no matter how much work you put in, the quality of the teaching makes a difference."

 

That is so true. Just being a native speaker is not enough. You have to know how to teach. That is why your boyfriend may not be a suitable teacher.

 

A few years ago I did a 10 week conversational Thai course. There were about 10 students, including two females. The teacher was a Thai housewife who didn't really speak much English. Consequently, she did not know how to explain the grammar and structure of the language.

 

We started with the greetings but she then moved to those 3 questions we hear from the guys - What's your name,? Where are you from? How long are you staying in Thailand?

 

She then added: 'What's your phone number?" and 'What's your hotel room number?"

 

The two female students were never seen again!

[anddy]

Consequently, she did not know how to explain the grammar and structure of the language.

 

entirely unecessary. Nobody EVER learned grammar for their first language while learning it (only later and unecessarily at school, only to be forgotten soon after). And me, I don't have a clue about Thai grammar, but I can still speak in proper sentences. 

[a447a]

"entirely unecessary."

 

For you, maybe but not for me.

 

We all learn in different ways.

 

Learning a language in-country is not the same as learning it sitting in a classroom. I learnt Japanese by being forced to speak it every day and so was able to pick up the grammar naturally - just as I did when I learnt my native language as a child.

[anddy]

"entirely unecessary."

 

For you, maybe but not for me.

 

We all learn in different ways.

 

Learning a language in-country is not the same as learning it sitting in a classroom. I learnt Japanese by being forced to speak it every day and so was able to pick up the grammar naturally - just as I did when I learnt my native language as a child.

there you go, then you know how it works, can work, and should work! 

[faranglaw]

Thai partners are not necessarily good teachers. Dear Husband does not have much patience with my clumsy attempts at Thai; after all, he wants to communicate, and his English is good, so why bother?

 

But then when I get to Thailand and spend a few weeks to months there, which we do every year, I stay with his family. I want to communicate with them! DH's 80 year old Mom speaks not a word of English and never will, so I need at least some rudimentary Thai to communicate with her. And his sister and others have very limited English, so I need to make the effort. So now I can at least have the standard conversations--where you from? Do you like Thai food/girls/country/boys/beaches, etc. Thai acquaintances appreciate the attempt, and last year, I reached the point where I could jump on the back of a mocy taxi and tell the driver in Thai where I wanted to go and how to get there. I was also navigating a number of other situations alone without needing to rely on him all the time. DH was impressed--and, I think, relieved!

[faranglaw]

I once again asked by Thai friend, "should I  learn Thai" and his answer was NO.

 

I then asked why and he said " you just want to learn the bad words".

 

So, once again, I will not try to learn Thai.  ​

 

 

...and you think this is a good reason NOT to learn Thai? For myself, I can hardly think of a better reason!

[kokopelli]

...and you think this is a good reason NOT to learn Thai? For myself, I can hardly think of a better reason!

No, but it is a good excuse for being lazy.

[a447a]

there you go, then you know how it works, can work, and should work!

I disagree.

 

With English and Japanese -and French to a certain extent - I learnt them from hearing them spoken 24/7 over a number of years. The structure of the language came naturally. For example, I didn't need anyone to explain to me that in Japanese the verb comes at the end of the sentence. And I could conjugate French verbs correctly without even knowing there are three different types.

 

With German, on the other hand, which I did not learn naturally - I actually had to study it - I needed someone to teach me the very specific word order, how to use the four different noun cases and the various other complicated aspects of grammar.

 

As I don't live in Thailand there is no way I can just pick up the gramnar and structure of Thai. I need things explained. Other people may not.

 

If you pick up any language textbook you'll find grammatical explanations. There's a reason for that.

[anddy]

I disagree.

 

With English and Japanese -and French to a certain extent - I learnt them from hearing them spoken 24/7 over a number of years. The structure of the language came naturally. For example, I didn't need anyone to explain to me that in Japanese the verb comes at the end of the sentence. And I could conjugate French verbs correctly without even knowing there are three different types.

 

With German, on the other hand, which I did not learn naturally - I actually had to study it - I needed someone to teach me the very specific word order, how to use the four different noun cases and the various other complicated aspects of grammar.

 

As I don't live in Thailand there is no way I can just pick up the gramnar and structure of Thai. I need things explained. Other people may not.

 

If you pick up any language textbook you'll find grammatical explanations. There's a reason for that.

you disagree? I don't get it. You say yourself you learned those languages "naturally", so you are living proof that approach DOES work.

 

Now, having said that, of course you can go and study a language in the traditional way. I am not disputing that one can do that. What I'm saying is that it is much harder that way and actually takes quiet some mental studying effort. Since I was (am) too lazy to do any proper studying (including, god forbid, homework!) the AUA approach was appealing to me. That was a major selling point for me, and what I've been saying is that anyone on this board who happens to live in Bangkok (no other locations unfortunately) AND have the time AND the willingness to attend classes for an extended period of time DOES have the ability to EFFORTLESSLY learn Thai. That's a lot of preconditions, sure, but I've always just pointed out that it possible and that it has worked for me and countless other people over the decades AUA has been in business. So I also do agree with you that learning Thai from outside Thailand will be much more difficult. 

 

With that natural approach, as you yourself attest, there is no need at all for grammar. Language textbooks ALL follow some traditional approach or other, so they do include all that grammar stuff, which in all the non-natural learning approaches is probably indeed necessary.

 

So are we in agreement or disagreement?

[anddy]

these two vids explain (first one) and demonstrate the effectiveness (second one) of the natural approach rather nicely, I find:

 

https://youtu.be/eTVbdstastI

 

https://youtu.be/fnUc_W3xE1w

 

Now that I've been through it with so great success and virtually no effort (except time spent having fun in class), it remains a mystery to me why this approach isn't researched and applied more widely. And believe me, before I started the whole thing I was as sceptical about it as everyone else. The three main points making me choose this program were:

 

1. it caters to my laziness, no need to "study" in the traditional sense of vocabulary and grammar, and no homework

2. the promise of fluency that comes naturally

3. the ability to come and go to classes at will, no such thing as falling behind schedule when missing classes, as there is no teaching schedule. So skipping classes for, say, going on trips at any time, no problem.

 

All 3 promises were kept. 

 

Further reading about it also here: https://beyondlanguagelearning.com/

[a447a]

you disagree? I don't get it. You say yourself you learned those languages "naturally", so you are living proof that approach DOES work.

 

So are we in agreement or disagreement?

The point I was making is that if you are lucky enough to live in the ciuntry, you don't need to know about how the language works. That has been my experience learning 3 languages in-country. If you don't live in the country, you need a lot of contact time with the language.

 

Unfortunately, I don't live in Thailand so need to take classes. Those "non-natural learning approaches" you mentioned therefore apply to me.

 

We are in total agreement.

[anddy]

We are in total agreement.

yes we are Had a feeling we were, but I guess I wasn't entirely clear myself

[ChristianPFC]

Most people learn by communication approach and prefer to learn speaking and listening rather then reading and writing when it comes to non-Latin alphabets.

 

I however prefer to learn from books, mostly on my own, with help from teacher only for pronunciation and to explain sentences I don't understand. Classroom work is difficult for me, as there are so many people and too much talk!

 

I would be content to start learning a language just reading and writing, studying grammar and vocabulary, with listening and speaking coming later. In that order: reading - writing - listening - speaking. It's coded in my body: I have two eyes to read, and one hand to write (but two hands to touch type, two ears to listen, and one mouth to speak.

 

For speaking, there is this wonderful invention International Phonetic Alphabet, which I like very much but have to teach myself as it is not used in classrooms for all languages I learnt.

[witty]

When I was really interested in learning Thai, I bought a lot of karaoke cds of popular singers of modern pop as well as morlam genres.

I listened to the pronunciation while reading the Thai lyrics which I found to be inspirational and interesting.

Never had the chance to attend any formal classroom methods , I somehow managed to get a hold of the basics by going online,but not in a disciplined manner.

[anddy]

Unfortunately, I don't live in Thailand so need to take classes. Those "non-natural learning approaches" you mentioned therefore apply to me.

 

briefly getting back to the point of not having access to the natural learning approach outside Thailand:

 

That's of course true, but at least (for those inclined to do so) you can get SOME glimpse of it through the AUA videos which are still on youtube in their youtube channe; called "algworld" (see https://www.youtube.com/user/algworld/playlists). The channel isn't maintained anymore, and the videos are old, but that is irrelevant, it all works still the same.

 

Now, in algworld channel, the vids are a little unorganized, but I found someone who has collated them nicely into packages:

 

ALG Thai 1 (3 hours): https://youtu.be/BYimqrlMi0g

ALG Thai 2 (4 hours): https://youtu.be/RWC9jUEfjA8

ALG Thai 3 (3.5 hours): https://youtu.be/fI--skp9tjY

ALG Thai 5-10 (4 hours): https://youtu.be/dZ7pLNesMso

 

What's missing there (e.g. 4) is also missing in the algworld channel. So you actually get the complete package here, just easier to access. 

 

A total of over 14 hours, not so bad! Though beginners will struggle with the more advanced levels. But you can rectify that by repeatedly watching the beginner levels until you understand almost everything there and then move to the next level. That's how it works in the actual classes there, too, except obviously you don't watch the same class over and over again but get new ones each hour. 

[faranglaw]

Thanks Anddy, very helpful.