Going down South of Thailand?

[Terry4]

Following a447 ‘s posts about travelling ,and using the apps to meet guys,

 

May I ask if anyone has travelled into the areas of South Thailand.

 

I have travelled all over Thailand ( except Phuket which I prefer to avoid) and have loved all the areas from the beutiful isaan to the gorgeous Chiang Mai ,Chiang Rai .

 

But I have never ventured South to Pattani etc and down towards the Malaysian border.

 

(I should of probaly posted this in the areas forum,my mistake ,apologies)

[anddy]

Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat = no-go zone, for pretty obvious reasons

 

You can easily go to Hat Yai though, plenty of flights there. Never been there, all I can say is from hearsay and maybe some websites such as tragelgayasia. As I understand it, there is a pretty sizeable commercial sex scene (str8 and gay) including male massage shops, mostly catering to Malaysians crossing the nearby border. 

[a447a]

Getting caught being involved in gay sex in the Muslim south of Thailand - or in any fundamentalist Muslim area for that matter - would most likely be a death sentence.

 

Best avoid.

[witty]

a447a, please don't exaggerate and be a scaremonger.

Thailand is far from being a fundamentalist Muslim country, not even the troubled south.

Stop the crap. Just stick to your sex adventures.

[Londoner]

Any evidence of fundamentalist Islam in that area? the violence in the region isn't religious but nationalistic. It's about land and national identity. There are pockets of Islamism in Indonesia and perhaps some of the remote Philippine islands but not in Thailand. To my knowledge , anyway.  

I've spent too long in Muslim communities in Africa and the Middle East  not to be suspicious of some of the generalisations I read in the western media.

[Londoner]

Thanks witty....we must have posted almost simultaneously! 

[a447a]

Witty, you need to calm down.

 

I was under the impression from media reports that there was a Muslim insurgency in the south of Thailand and that isome fundamentalists haven killed school children, teachers and Buddhists. If they are not fundamental Muslims, what are they? Moderates?

 

I have never been there so can only rely on what I read in the press, including the Bangkok Post.

 

I'm not scaremongering. But there is no way I'd walk down the street with my guy-du-jour in a society with people openly hostile to gays.

 

It only takes one.

[pong]

For normal Thai the south is all south of BKK. For touristy purposes places like Krabi, Phuket, Koh Samui/Tao/Pangnga etc. belong to that.

Beyond HYai its mostly called far south. The struggle is  more against all personifications of the Thai govmt. Alas, its bad enpough, but teachers and the like tend to come from far away there. It was never really aimed at westerners, but it could be the ''wrong place, wrong time''. However, it seems that the bomb-planting etc has toned down the last 2 yrs-they have caught a few insurgents and the Malays (who offered shelter to them) are now also cooperating. The area is also notorious as temporary shelter for Rohingya etc. (all muslim) on the move to Malaysia. These warnings usually stay on for years.

I've travelled twice along it, from HYai to Malay border north-east toward Kota Baru, the 2nd time was notably much more safety influenced by Thai military everywhere etc. HYai has enough to please people like us in transit for a day or 2.

But the bonus_ one of the hottest guys I've ever had the pleasure to meet was a dead-poor and really gay guy (in western sense) from Pattani, who was delighted that after some try-out we could talk slowly in what I call bahasa and he yawi=the local dialect. Was completely beyond what he believed to be possible.

[a447a]

The Australian government has issued this warning :

 

"Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat and Songkhla, do not travel

 

We advise against all travel here due to the very high risk. If you do travel, you should typically seek professional security advice. Be aware that regular travel insurance policies will be void and that the Australian Government is unlikely to be able to provide consular assistance."

 

I would guess that other governments have offered similar advice. The area is dangerous.

 

Although homosexuality is tolerated by many moderate Muslims, it is strictly forbidden in the Koran. In that community you would be safe, I think. You may get disapproving looks, but noone is likely to physically attack you if they think you are gay.

 

But in a society where there are some who interpret the Koran more strictly and are willing to kill anyone who dares insult their religion or, for example, draws pictures of the Prophet, things can turn nasty very quickly.

 

It's bad enough that I'm considered an infidel by some. As a gay man I certainly would not feel safe.

 

BTW, I never said that Thailand was a "fundamentalist Muslim country."

[neddy]

Terry4, I think that any travel south from Hat Yai would be very unwise.

[spoon]

Definitely there is even a travel advisory issued for malaysian citizens against travelling to those deep/far south region in thailand (Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat, Songkhla). There has been cases that malaysian citizen being hit by stray bullet in those area. Though the movement there is more ethnic related, and just so happens their religion is islam. They are just culturally very different than the rest of thailand, and even their language are more similar to malay than thai. Hatyai on the other hand is still safe for travel, and some of thai MB in KL also use hatyai as their place to stay while resetting their visa before coming back here. One of my favorite guy from dreamboys comes from trang, a city north of hatyai, south of phuket.

 

My take is if u want to travel there, just avoId the far south region, and u should be fine.

[Terry4]

Terry4, I think that any travel south from Hat Yai would be very unwise.

Yes Neddy you maybe right but something still tells me to see myself

[Londoner]

This thread illustrates very nicely how some governments have a vested interest in encouraging ignorance and Islamophobia. 

Cui bono?

[Terry4]

Londoner thats why i would rather see myself.

 

I may sound like a idiot to some i guess but i would take a few precautions first

[Terry4]

Londoner thats why i would rather see myself.

 

I may sound like a idiot to some i guess but i would take a few precautions first maybe even see if i can get a local guide etc.

 

Yes i too think this islamaphobia is here tobtry to create fear

[a447a]

It's funny how the politically correct love to shout "islamaphobia" at every turn.

 

I am not an islamaphobe, as demonstrated by my comment above:

 

"Although homosexuality is tolerated by many moderate Muslims, it is strictly forbidden in the Koran. In that community you would be safe, I think. You may get disapproving looks, but noone is likely to physically attack you if they think you are gay."

 

And i hardly think the governments who state that the area is a no-go zone for travellers could be considered "islamaphobic."

 

The best way to find out is really like is to do what Terry said - go see for yourself.

 

I simply prefer to heed the government's travel advice.

[ChristianPFC]

I have been to Hat Yai several times. The gay scene is dwindling, details see on my blog. I met a Malaysian Muslim in one of the gay saunas of Hat Yai (I think now only one is left), and I asked him how he can reconcile gay sex and being Muslim, and he talked to me in fluent English for 10 minutes, but after that I was no wiser.

 

I have visited the far south (Narathiwat and Pattani) in Jan 2016, report of gay activities here:

https://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2016/02/gay-activities-in-narathiwat-and-pattani.html

 

Overall, friendly people and the only provinces in Thailand where you can go for days without seeing another White. Even in places like Sakon Nakon, Phichit, Bueng Garn, I see at least one other White per day. I would go there (Narathiwat, Pattani, Yala) again any time!

[GWMinUS]

QUOTE From Chirsitanpfc:

I met a Malaysian Muslim in one of the gay saunas of Hat Yai (I think now only one is left), and I asked him how he can reconcile gay sex and being Muslim, and he talked to me in fluent English for 10 minutes, but after that I was no wiser.

 

HAHAHA

Not much different from my experience as a Southern Baptist in my youth...

NO DANCING ALLOWED, but we danced anyway.

Now it is NO HOMOS, but I am sure they are still throughout the Church.

Live your own life and do not worry about the Bible or the Koran!

[Londoner]

Agreed.

It's odd how Muslims are held to account for every deviation from the Koran while it is accepted that Jews, Christians, Hindus and even some Buddhists are given leeway to retain their faith alongside their sexuality. Buddhists? yes....those of us who have boyfriends who are involved in DMC  will know what I'm talking about. That's why I regard it as Islamophobic.

[vinapu]

 

Live your own life and do not worry about the Bible or the Koran!

reminds me bumper sticker I saw " If you live like God don't exist, you'd better be right"

[paborn]

Agreed.

It's odd how Muslims are held to account for every deviation from the Koran while it is accepted that Jews, Christians, Hindus and even some Buddhists are given leeway to retain their faith alongside their sexuality. Buddhists? yes....those of us who have boyfriends who are involved in DMC  will know what I'm talking about. That's why I regard it as Islamophobic.

I think the label of Islamaphobic is one of the most overused and ill-used words among liberals. There are, of course, those who label every Muslim as a terrorist.  However, we have to be fair and compare things that are the same.  Jews: there have long been reform movements in Judaism. There are, broadly speaking, reform, conservative and Orthodox. But there are even various types of Orthodox who are more or less strict. Christians, the reformation was long ago and there is a theology for everyone. Once ultra-conservative Catholic Austria shows only 10% actually go to Church.

 

Islam has had no reform movements that have stuck. Majority Muslim nations tend to have laws against apostasy and homosexuality. Draconian laws. Moderate Muslims find no group to coalesce around. 

 

Most people just like to live their own lives and be left alone. But, I think there is enough uniformity in general Islam to make it fair to be surprised when a Muslim goes against this. A priest who drinks - no shock. Forgive me if an inebriated Imam is a shock.

[vinapu]

While there's no doubt in my mind that islamophobia is alive and kicking in Western societies , I can't escape seeing that those days  Muslims are persecuted and decimated  mainly by other  Muslims , Darfur, Boko Haram, butcheries of Syria and Yemen, list is quite long.

 

If in 21 century there are still countries where apostasy is hanging offense must be something wrong with those countries or 21 century or both

[Londoner]

I can understand Paborn's perspective; those of us who live in the west depend on the perceptions of others. And "the others"- the media, the politicians, the economic elite- have their own fish to fry. Remember that Islamic nations were colonised and brutalised for political  and economic gain for two hundred years and, now  allegedly independent, they are seen as a threat to the colonial-settler enterprise of Israel....with which the west is closely allied. We have have tied our colours to the mast for too long, the mast being colonialism, what Edward Said calls orientalism and now Zionism- three ideologies that require fear and loathing of "the other".In this case, Islam. And when our mistakes result in blow-back- as in Iraq, Syria and most obviously Palestine- we refuse to consider how we are responsible for the catastrophes that inevitably follow.

 

My perspective is certainly very different to that of most people in the west; I  have spent too long in Occupied Palestine to be blind to the realities of  of living under a foreign and malicious occupying army. And of course, it was my own country, the UK,that ran away when Palestine was invaded in 1948, leaving the very people the UN had asked  us to protect to be slaughtered or exiled.And their descendants colonised.

[bobsaigon]

I think the original question in this thread is what risk a gay person would face in the southern districts of Thailand in view of their Muslim population.    Very possibly, there would be no risk.    What many board members recall is that the staunchly Muslim countries are vehemently anti-gay both by custom and by law (though in many areas it is traditionally understood that homosexuality is acceptable among unmarried males).  So, rather than mentally referencing the 9/11 World Trade Center tragedy or subsequent Muslim generated violence in America or Europe, board members instead are recalling the treatment, sometimes harsh and sometimes deadly, that gay men receive at the hands of governments in Saudi Arabia, Iran (two gay teenagers executed), or similar countries.

 

The occupation of Palestine, the prejudice that entirely innocent Muslims are subjected to in America and Europe cannot simply be dismissed.  There is Islamophobia, but that is not relevant to the average gay traveler to the southern Thai provinces.   If the traveler is Islamophobic, then there is certainly no good reason for such a journey. 

[paborn]

Bob/Londoner,

 

I could not agree with you more. I've made business trips to Israel and was appalled by what I saw. Jewish only roads? A new law effectively making every Arab citizen of Israel second class. Gaza is a huge open-air prison and every single settlement in the West Bank is illegal and is there only to secure the land that the Jewish fundamentalists view as Judea and Samaria. My countries blind support of Netanyahu's ultra-right-wing policies is just another Trump immoral policy. Hell, he sent as ambassador a man who has helped finance settlements.

 

No, my friends, my sole objection was to the overuse of Islamaphobia.  I just deeply criticized Israel and could go on. But. I'm not anti-Semitic although many reading this will call me that.

 

I can have issues with fundamentalist Islam and not be Islamaphobic - let's not use the term too broadly.