I'm not tipping them!

[paborn]

it only shows that at end of day military might succumbs to strong culture 

 

 

isn't it easier just pay price from the invoice only  without an announcement about not tipping ?

No, Vinapu you're overlooking my point. Americans made no effort to spread tipping with "religious zeal" my point was that while every place the British Empire expanded tripping was exported. Japan was an example of where Americans did not do this. The world was awash in such practices long before Americans began to build a new nation.

 

I agree that this is a topic being worked for too long, it might, however,  just indicate how important it is. Not as a "religion" American or not. But, people are anxious when traveling to a new place to not cause offense. All the things you list are important but I think you're being disingenuous. I have been in dozens and dozens of countries during my career - never found one where a taxi could not be had to take me to a hotel. I never worry about that. I can get a taxi at swampy to take me to Pattaya - 1,500 B no problem. But getting a handle on customs such as tipping requires checking. The best place to exchange money? The rates vary by such a tiny amount that I choose to ignore it. I hasten to add airports are usually terrible - but, downtown - no issue for me. Unless I'm buying a condo it is the fees that add up so I change or use my ATM for large amounts. That's all I need to know.

 

It takes far less time to perform a little online research than it does to pack. I think it's time well spent.

[vinapu]

 

It takes far less time to perform a little online research than it does to pack. 

obviously you did not discover joys of travelling light yet

[ggobkk]

Hmmmm...seems I’m doubly condemned to tip as I’m from the US descended from British stock. Guess, I’ll have to cope with what I’m given.

[paborn]

obviously you did not discover joys of travelling light yet

Cute! But, the seconds it takes to google "tipping in Thailand" are quite worth my time.

[DivineMadman]

 

 

isn't it easier just pay price from the invoice only  without an announcement about not tipping ?

My point was that if someone thinks not tipping is either not customary at these bars/restaurants or that not tipping is conduct wrapped in a nifty bundle of integrity, then he or she would not have any problem telling the waiter that to his face.  So if someone is proud of it, why not tell the waiter that?  The " no announcement" approach is of course easier.  That's actually the point.  

[Guest]

 / my underscore / 

 

Really ?,  this would support theory about religious devotion to tipping.

 

When visiting first time  first thing for me would  rather be checking how to get from airport to my hotel, best places to exchange money  and then  opening hours, admission price and way how to get to that place's most acclaimed attractions.

 

I already mentioned it earlier , this discussion becomes too heated for what is worth and yes , I do tip but it's more afterthought that matter of doctoral thesis for me.

Ok I'll play your stupid game. Possibly I should have said  "0ne of the first things" Not that it makes a bit of difference to the point that it takes very little effort to discover tipping customs before you leave so you don't look like a Cheap Charlie or someone who throws his money around.

[paborn]

Scooby, tipping is apparently such a divisive topic that even gentlemen ( and I mean that ) like Vinapu have a "born again" feeling about it. I thought your comment the mildest of "when in Rome do as the Romans" aphorisms.

 

I'm going to bow out of this before I permanently offend people who I've come to like.

[paborn]

Hmmmm...seems I’m doubly condemned to tip as I’m from the US descended from British stock. Guess, I’ll have to cope with what I’m given.

 

I'm 15% British, but we left in 1633 for the Massachusets Bay Colony - wait, maybe my family started this - argh!!!

[spoon]

the most important things everyone wants to know is, if u are tipping well in gay establishments in thailand, does it usually translated to better services from them? From my experience as well as from reading trip reports, it has always been hit and miss. Sometimes paying high tips give the impression that u dont know the market price, hence labelled as newbie and some boys take advantage of that, while other times, those high tips boys performs much better than the low tips boys. While we keep arguing here, there is one major lack of POV from the boys to put into the equation when discussing tips vs service. And i agree that tipping is confusing for most people, it confused me as well when i first learned about tipping when i was in the states too lol. At least over there, its clear where and how much u should tips, usually 20% and rounded up the dollar. if the service is great, tip more if not tip less. In thailand however, tipping rules are very vague, and throw in manipulative mamasan, tourist scam, and horny gays in the mix, it becomes more complex than simple calculus lol

[vinapu]

Ok I'll play your stupid game. 

Wow, I'm impressed !

[PeterRS]

the most important things everyone wants to know is, if u are tipping well in gay establishments in thailand, does it usually translated to better services from them? From my experience as well as from reading trip reports, it has always been hit and miss.

 

Does this indicate you tip the boys in advance?

[kokopelli]

. At least over there, its clear where and how much u should tips, usually 20% and rounded up the dollar. if the service is great, tip more if not tip less. 

I know some Americans that are slavish to tipping. Not only do they tip 20%, they tip on top of the tax on the food and they never question the level of service. 

[Guest]

I know some Americans that are slavish to tipping. Not only do they tip 20%, they tip on top of the tax on the food and they never question the level of service. 

I guess that also means you know some people who are too cheap to ever tip no matter how helpful they are or how excellent the service is. Let's keep tipping (paying for Sex) separate from what most of us consider tipping.  Although I guess some here don't see the distinction?

 

Interesting how not a single member has commented on the fact that the daily wage of many of the Thai workers  is less then we regularly pay for a bottle of water etc in the places that we frequent.

 

And with that I will go back into my Moderator Role and will have no further comments on this subject. Sorry for the intrusion.

[kokopelli]

I guess that also means you know some people who are too cheap to ever tip no matter how helpful they are or how excellent the service is. Let's keep tipping (paying for Sex) separate from what most of us consider tipping.  Although I guess some here don't see the distinction?

 

.

No I don't know of any people who are cheap enough to ever tip, no matter what, in the USA. Thailand is different.

I assumed that this thread was about tipping in bars, etc, and not sex tipping?

[vinapu]

 

 

And with that I will go back into my Moderator Role and will have no further comments on this subject. Sorry for the intrusion.

what intrusion ? 

 

It's actually good if  moderators involve themselves in discussion  as it levels field i.e. you always know what we have to say but we don't know what's your opinion is. Universal Charter of Human Rights doesn't stop at moderators desk.

[vinapu]

 

Interesting how not a single member has commented on the fact that the daily wage of many of the Thai workers  is less then we regularly pay for a bottle of water etc in the places that we frequent.

 

 

most likely  we did not want to wake up those who are known  to wail that some are overtiping and spoiling market 

[reader]

most likely  we did not want to wake up those who are known  to wail that some are overtiping and spoiling market 

 

Actually someone did call attention to the lowly minimum wage way back in post #31:

 

"The waiters live off their tips, not the 300 minimum wage (if they even get that).  Some send a good chunk of their earnings home."

 

Even if it succeeded in awakening some, it induced sleep in others.

[Terry4]

I doubt Airline staff would eat the food you gave them as a tip,would they allowed to in this day abd age?

Im surprised they accepted it

[ChristianPFC]

Just as an FYI - One potential problem with pooled tips is that in addition to back bar and kitchen help sometimes the manager or boss thinks he can take a share as well.  So direct handing of tips isn't a problem.  

 

There was a study somewhere (coconutsbangkok?) What the collected tips are used for. The low end of the scale was that all of it is used to pay part of the electricity bill, if my memory serves right.

 

In Thailand, tipping leads to absurdities like getting shoulder massage at the urinal, or staff in toilet handing you a hot steamed towel to dry your hands after washing them, and expecting a tip for that.

[Guest]

Interesting how not a single member has commented on the fact that the daily wage of many of the Thai workers  is less then we regularly pay for a bottle of water etc in the places that we frequent.

 

I'm not sure that's relevant.    If the sole purpose of tipping was to redistribute our wealth, we would be tipping street cleaners etc. 

Tipping 50 baht to the first 4 street cleaners you see probably is more equitable than tipping 1/3rd or 2/3rds of the minimum daily wage to a mamasan in a bar.   If every other customer is doing the same, the mamasans are earning a multiple of the minimum daily wage, for a 4~5 hour working day.   Meanwhile, the street cleaner is still getting the 300 baht.

 

I attempt to tip according to the customs of the country I visit, when the service is satisfactory to good.  If the mamasan has been a pest, there is zero chance of any tip being paid.

  

I am under no obligations to apply US tipping practices in Thailand, Europe or anywhere else outside the US.

[vinapu]

 

Tipping 50 baht to the first 4 street cleaners you see probably is more equitable than tipping 1/3rd or 2/3rds of the minimum daily wage to a mamasan in a bar.  

If every other customer is doing the same, the mamasans are earning a multiple of the minimum daily wage, for a 4~5 hour working day.  

I have a habit of giving my leftover small change , if any , to a airport cleaners.

 

From zillion of visits in bars I doubt  that practice of tipping mamasan 100 / 200 baht is that wide spread , specially in more popular bars where crowds are arriving for the show and leaving right after and most of audience is East / South East Asians, not exactly famous for coming from tipping cultures.

 

Not that reports about lavish tipping are exaggerated, I was witness myself of boys being tipped 1000 baht for just being on the stage, not even fully undressed, but those were boys , not waiters or mamasans.

[DivineMadman]

I'm not sure that's relevant.    If the sole purpose of tipping was to redistribute our wealth, we would be tipping street cleaners etc. 

Tipping 50 baht to the first 4 street cleaners you see probably is more equitable than tipping 1/3rd or 2/3rds of the minimum daily wage to a mamasan in a bar.   If every other customer is doing the same, the mamasans are earning a multiple of the minimum daily wage, for a 4~5 hour working day.   Meanwhile, the street cleaner is still getting the 300 baht.

 

I attempt to tip according to the customs of the country I visit, when the service is satisfactory to good.  If the mamasan has been a pest, there is zero chance of any tip being paid.

  

I am under no obligations to apply US tipping practices in Thailand, Europe or anywhere else outside the US.

I'll confess I'm a bit unclear if this is an attempt to back-track on the previous "Drinks are expensive I won't tip" argument or not.  But anyway, if you want to re-open it, fine with me.

 

First - No one has ever said that you must apply US tipping practices in Thailand, Europe or anywhere else.  Continuing to stomp metaphorical feet and keep saying that is just a bit of clumsy mis-direction.  The issue has always been clear - tipping at the gay bars, restaurants & gogo bars on Soi Twilight and Soi 4 in Bangkok (and similar spots in Pattaya).  And at those places tipping has been customary for many, many, many years.  When you're having a drink at Banaba Bar or at Balcony Bar or at Fresh Boys, for example:  look to the right of you, look to the left of you, those other customers -- they are tipping.  There are also many places in the world outside the US where it is customary and expected to tip.  And you know that.  The local custom in the little micro-universe at issue here is Soi Twilight and Soi 4, etc., is that tipping is customary and that's how they get the cute flirty guys who are ok with a gay environment to work there.  In "economic" speak, non-tippers are just free-riding on the rest of us.  People who are pointing out that tipping is customary on Soi 4, are not saying you must follow tipping US tipping practices.  I have to believe that you know and understand this, so why you continue to make the "straw man" argument seems baffling and, well, weak. 

 

Second - No one has ever even hinted in this discussion that the issue is you should give a tip a mamasan who is only a pest and provides no service.  So now trying to hide behind that example of tipping the pesky mamasan as somehow justifying not tipping waiters can't really make you feel better about yourself, can it?  The discussion has ALWAYS been about tipping the waiter who brings you a drink or your food.  (Personally, if the mamasan provides some service to me I do tip, but that's because I use the services of the mamasan to help select a guy.  If I don't then I don't tip.)

 

When you have to hide behind a mamasan is when I think you should just let the issue go.  

 

In a location where tipping is customary, whether you do so or not is between you and your own personal moral compass.  You don't want to leave spare coins for the maid?  No one can force you to do that.  If the jingle of those coins makes you feel better, well, so be it.  If is important to you to go to gogo bars and see a parade of young men in their underwear and pay 400 baht combination cover charge/drink charge, and you don't want to tip the waiter 20 baht, that's up to you.  After 20 drinks, you've saved yourself enough to buy yourself one whole drink.  If that drink tastes extra special because it's paid for by not tipping that kid from the developing world who smiled and brought you those 20 other drinks, all the better.

 

I know from personal experience that tipping is not customary in Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia and I believe it is not customary in Pyongyang, North Korea.  Mongolia is gorgeous and I bet North Korea would be fascinating.  Perhaps consider going there, where you would not be confronted with the horrible tipping practice??  

[paborn]

My God. Yes! So well said!

[bucknaway]

This topic is fun when info is shared, I hate to read personal attacks because someone thinks differently and lives their life to the beat of a different drum.

 

No one has lives a perfect life in the judgement of others.

 

https://youtu.be/QAn4NBwo0pY

[paborn]

This topic is fun when info is shared, I hate to read personal attacks because someone thinks differently and lives their life to the beat of a different drum.

 

No one has lives a perfect life in the judgement of others.

 

https://youtu.be/QAn4NBwo0pY

Correcting what has been said is not a personal attack. Yes, we - each of us - own our opinions but refuting them is not an attack on the owner only a disagreement of the opinion.