I'm not tipping them!

[Guest]

Tipping may have originated in Tudor England coffee houses, but as of 2018, I think the culture is much more towards tipping in the US.  

In Europe, there are fewer cases where we tip.   

In Japan, it's not done at all.  Even though the customer service is about the best there is.

 

Despite the attempts of some members, we should not say one way is better than the other, it's just a different culture.

 

In the US, tipping is widespread.   Although the list of professions tipped seems to have evolved at random.

 

As stated, in Europe, it's less common, but some European countries have a higher minimum wage, so the people in low end service jobs should be paid enough.   I could not say the US way is superior to that.

 

Also, tipping doesn't exactly guarantee good service.  

I've seen a colleague leave a tip for the cleaner on a daily basis in Thailand (despite shoddy cleaning).  This goes on until she takes a drink from his mini bar and bills it to the room.  Meanwhile, I am following the cultural norms in my country & Thailand & not tipping the cleaner.   Also I'm getting no add ons to the bill.

[biguyby]

The first time I visited Isaan I tipped a Lady who had cooked food for us. She asked my companion why I had given the extra money and was really offended by the gesture that I thought of as being kind.

[paborn]

Fair enough. Just pointing out that The British Empire gave it to the US and spread it before Americans arrived to reinforce the practice.  Americans tip generously but if you examine the issue I think you will find that the areas we tip in are the same as Europeans.  We tip more for many reasons - lower wages for one - but you tip taxi drivers, waiters, etc. 

[paborn]

The first time I visited Isaan I tipped a Lady who had cooked food for us. She asked my companion why I had given the extra money and was really offended by the gesture that I thought of as being kind.

I think the point of this thread is to tip, reasonably well in tourist areas and adapt the tipping to the culture. I don't think anyone suggested that we tip in the country areas. The discussion really started with the suggestion that stiff the bars because drinks are so expensive. I think Divinemadman has covered this very well.

[DivineMadman]

I think the point of this thread is to tip, reasonably well in tourist areas and adapt the tipping to the culture. I don't think anyone suggested that we tip in the country areas. The discussion really started with the suggestion that stiff the bars because drinks are so expensive. 

yes.  I think we're just trying to focus on the gay bars/gogos/restaurants and the situation there right now.   (Not that tipping is a particularly new phenomenon on Soi Twilight or Soi 4.)

 

I think we all want the waters to get paid decently well, because we want the bars to be able to hire better-than-average looking guys, who are ok with that environment, with personality, and nice bodies that they are generous with.    So it's great if people who can tip appropriately do.  I think most waiters would probably agree they are in it for the tips, not the minimum wage.  We want the bars to stay open and continue to hire good looking, fun, flirty waiters and staff.

 

I can't really imagine a farang telling a waiter at Fresh Boys (for example):  "I am not going to tip you because if I did tip you it wouldn't be authentically asian."   But if you gets you through the night, ok.  

 

Just try to have to fun.  It's supposed to be a fun experience.  

[ggobkk]

I sort of fall into a tipper category similar to Reader and DivineMadman.  But one can learn, my habit of taking the change from the folder and handing the tip to the server is derived from advice given in BankgokBois.  This topic will have me rethink that if the tips are actually being pooled.

 

Also, some places (not in Twilight) add a service charge.  Some places like Maxi's post that tips are welcome as they dont have a service charge.  

[DivineMadman]

Just as an FYI - One potential problem with pooled tips is that in addition to back bar and kitchen help sometimes the manager or boss thinks he can take a share as well.  So direct handing of tips isn't a problem.  

[bucknaway]

If a place pools tips and a guy is seen pocketing a tip.... could that cause him problems?

[DivineMadman]

If a place pools tips and a guy is seen pocketing a tip.... could that cause him problems?

I would think so.  I don't know and haven't ever been sober enough to ask.  I reported the "lore" that if you hand the tip outside the folder it goes direct to the waiter - maybe because I read it in BangkokBois as ggobkk mentioned, for all I know, but I think someone else has mentioned it to me as well.  I just leave the change in the folder and never had any complaints.  Others hand the ฿ directly and I am sure no complaints there either.  sabai-sabai.

[vinapu]

 

 

(1) The topic of this post is among the more popular. By entering "tip" and "tipping" in the search function, here are the results for a dozen posts dating back to about one year ago.

 

12 posts,  1,115 replies       68,700 views

 

 

No surprise here , we humans like to discuss other people money but get ballistic when somebody tries to discuss ours.

 

On subject of tipping I sit firmly on both sides of fence. I support ChristianPFC's idea that habit of tipping is evil  , depriving workers chance to get decent pay on the legs of logic that they will be tipped.

 

On another hand I tend to follow local customs and where is known tips are expected I do too.

 

In Thailand I tend to follow my own tipping rules  but from time to time   I exceed it generously. I like to see smiling faces. Brighten my holidays.

 

I tend to hand tip directly to a person being tipped and try to do it discretely. In some places it ensures tip is theirs  but in others it still will be pooled but I leave that part to waiters if they will share or not. 

 

Jupiter is only place I don't tip waiters as 'thank you ' gesture for not giving me a change from 500 on 400 off fee despite of me waiting for it  a good while, like 15 minutes. After I save 200 baht on not given tips I will start tipping them again / 80 baht to save left /

[biguyby]

If a place pools tips and a guy is seen pocketing a tip.... could that cause him problems?

How I understand the tipping system in most bars or restaurants is that if you place a tip on the bill tray or in the bin it is pooled and shared at the end of the shift by all staff.

 

If you hand a tip directly to the waiter or stick in his pants then he keeps it as a personal tip and does not share.

[kokopelli]

Regarding tips, I often do both, put 20 Baht in the folder and another 20 or so outside the folder for the waiter. 

[spoon]

I once see boys also leave tips to grabber/doorman outside and those who watched their motorcycle where they park. More like them sharing their wealth after successfully landed an off from me. It shows you appreciate the person, their work, and effort. And in return they might perform better as well. In malaysia, tipping is definitely not a custom here, nor do they expect tips, but none will be offended if they receive one, in fact you will see a shock face followed by generous smile and a little prayer to your well being. Many restaurants and hotels here already have service charges applied to your bills anyway. I sometimes tips masseurs at legit massage parlour here especially if they gives great massage and arent afraid to go near my underwear area. Some of them dont even wait for u to leave at the door, leavig no chance for you to give them tip.

[Jasper]

I once see boys also leave tips to grabber/doorman outside and those who watched their motorcycle where they park. More like them sharing their wealth after successfully landed an off from me. It shows you appreciate the person, their work, and effort.

I have seen Jupiter boys pay 100B tip to waiters a few time and it’s always 100B like unwritten rule.

I thought it’s generous but it seems natural for them, a bigger earner to less fortunate, Tambun a kind of making a merit.

[paulsf]

You will often see the boys at Jupiter tip the door staff on their way out.

[Jasper]

You will often see the boys at Jupiter tip the door staff on their way out.

I saw offed boy with customer tried to walk past the tip box at the door but the manager caught him so he paid 100B unwillingly. lol

 

I think the boys prefer to pay to the door staff/waiter personally than to the tip box like everyone.

 

It’s also not unusual for the boys to pay tip to waiters out of his pocket if his customer forget to tip, sometimes as much as 500B( 100B to three waiters+ 200B to mamasan).

 

Sometimes my regular boys ask if I could tip his friend as he hasn’t had a customer for a week so I tip 500-1000B.

One such friend thanked me saying he could go to a clinic to receive a facial beauty treatment! lol

I don’t mind tipping his friend thinking perhaps his friend would help my regular if he was in need.

[Guest]

Jupiter is only place I don't tip waiters as 'thank you ' gesture for not giving me a change from 500 on 400 off fee despite of me waiting for it  a good while, like 15 minutes. After I save 200 baht on not given tips I will start tipping them again / 80 baht to save left /

 

I don't go in Jupiter, but in Toy Boys, I see similar behaviour.

 

They frequently leave the wallet with my change on the counter for 10~15 minutes or so, even though the staff are doing nothing else.   I presume this is in the hope that the customer might sod off without waiting for the change, even when the change amounts to 600 baht.  

As you can imagine, I wait for my change and there is not a prayer of them getting tipped after that.

I don't go in there very often, but have learnt to pay the exact change.

 

To get a tip from me, the waiter needs to provide good service.  

That involves being helpful when needed, to just get out of the way when not needed & not pushing for tips.

 

I also have a long memory.  One time, I tipped the waiters in Classic Boys 100 baht, after I left with a very nice lad.   Anyway, like about 40 minutes later he got a phone call from the mamasan asking him to go back to the bar.  We had only been in the hotel just over 20 minutes.    I haven't paid a tip in there since.  

[anddy]

Quite a broad and balanced discussion of tipping here. Some aspects from me to throw in:

 

I believe American tipping (to wait staff) is different from tipping in the rest of the world in that in the US the tip is part of the very fabric of the overall compensation package of the waiter. This is the reason they can legally be paid less than minimum wage, this is the reason that apparently, as paborn pointed out, a certain level of tip is ASSUMED to be earned for tax purposes, and all this is the reason you are essentially OBLIGED to tip wait staff in the US. Not so in the rest of the world. 

 

Now Americans grow up with that and therefore many cannot fathom a different approach. Thus they spread their tipping culture (which is actually an obligation more than a cultural thing) around the globe like a "religion", as some have labeled it.

 

Me personally, I do like the Japanese approach very much - service staff not only being paid a commensurate wage, but also taking pride in their work and not wanting to be tipped for it. Having said that, I do of course tip where it is common or expected or otherwise sensible as discussed in this thread (DivineMadman's elaborations pretty much reflect my own views).

 

As for the history of tipping, I only very recently learned of an apparent very dark history of US-American wage/tipping structure, as explained in the video posted below. I don't know if it is true, but there seem to be a lot of videos on the topic in youtube, so presumably it is not made up (I've been to lazy to google it any further). Not that it really changes anything in our currentn tipping behavior, but it gives quite a different and new (to me) perspective.

 

And finally as for the service charge: for one it can be problematic in that it doesn't got to the staff at all put is pocketed entirely but the restaurant. I've heard stories of that happening, so I don't trust the concept. Apart from that, what the hell is it supposed to be for in the first place? The cost of wait staff is an intrinsic and necessary cost of any restaurant/bar, so it should be incorporated in the overall cost structure and thus the food/drinks prices. Also, even if it is fully paid to the staff, it shifts some of the business risk from the owner to the staff - more turnover means more wage for the staff (in the form of the service charge), less sales in slow times means less earnings for staff. I believe that's unfair. A business risk is just that, a business risk and should be borne by the entrepreneur, not the wage earning staff. 

 

Anyway, here is the video: https://youtu.be/66d4h3TATVs

 

and another one: https://youtu.be/fRWALpbS1Po

[DivineMadman]

I don't know that we'll ever be able to agree that tipping is somehow an American religion being spread around the world.  I certainly remember having to make note of whether ​servis compris  when I was young and traveling in Europe.  

 

Also, India.  Tipping is a part of the fabric of life there by, for and among the locals.  ("baksheesh")  I don't think you can blame that on the American hegemony.  So, just saying.

[paborn]

Quite a broad and balanced discussion of tipping here. Some aspects from me to throw in:

 

I believe American tipping (to wait staff) is different from tipping in the rest of the world in that in the US the tip is part of the very fabric of the overall compensation package of the waiter. This is the reason they can legally be paid less than minimum wage, this is the reason that apparently, as paborn pointed out, a certain level of tip is ASSUMED to be earned for tax purposes, and all this is the reason you are essentially OBLIGED to tip wait staff in the US. Not so in the rest of the world. 

 

Now Americans grow up with that and therefore many cannot fathom a different approach. Thus they spread their tipping culture (which is actually an obligation more than a cultural thing) around the globe like a "religion", as some have labeled it.

 

Me personally, I do like the Japanese approach very much - service staff not only being paid a commensurate wage, but also taking pride in their work and not wanting to be tipped for it. Having said that, I do of course tip where it is common or expected or otherwise sensible as discussed in this thread (DivineMadman's elaborations pretty much reflect my own views).

 

As for the history of tipping, I only very recently learned of an apparent very dark history of US-American wage/tipping structure, as explained in the video posted below. I don't know if it is true, but there seem to be a lot of videos on the topic in youtube, so presumably it is not made up (I've been to lazy to google it any further). Not that it really changes anything in our currentn tipping behavior, but it gives quite a different and new (to me) perspective.

 

And finally as for the service charge: for one it can be problematic in that it doesn't got to the staff at all put is pocketed entirely but the restaurant. I've heard stories of that happening, so I don't trust the concept. Apart from that, what the hell is it supposed to be for in the first place? The cost of wait staff is an intrinsic and necessary cost of any restaurant/bar, so it should be incorporated in the overall cost structure and thus the food/drinks prices. Also, even if it is fully paid to the staff, it shifts some of the business risk from the owner to the staff - more turnover means more wage for the staff (in the form of the service charge), less sales in slow times means less earnings for staff. I believe that's unfair. A business risk is just that, a business risk and should be borne by the entrepreneur, not the wage earning staff. 

 

Anyway, here is the video: https://youtu.be/66d4h3TATVs

 

and another one: https://youtu.be/fRWALpbS1Po

At great risk of being called racist - just because something is on youtube doesn't make it true.  The American struggle with racial equity has been long and hard.  Tipping works the same for blacks and for whites.  Unfair policing, segregated housing and a host of other things have created unfairness in the US. Not that we are alone in that When Mexican ads for employment mention " a good appearance" it is code for no Indians need to apply. The world is awash in bigotry - but, the tipping system in US restaurants works the same for any race. It should be ended, but these videos are IMHO absolute rubbish.

[reader]

Anddy, you made some interesting arguments in the discussion and presented unique points of view. But the videos do not serve you well.

 

Two to three minutes in duration, the videos attempt to persuade the viewer that the practice of tipping was developed to compensate African-Americans for working as waiters. It uses as evidence some cartoons pulled off the net. And then tries to extrapolate this claim to prove that tipping is therefor racist.

 

It's illogical and unfounded.

[vinapu]

Sometimes my regular boys ask if I could tip his friend as he hasn’t had a customer for a week so I tip 500-1000B.

 

few times in various bars I had similar  suggestion but I always try to convert such request  to  an off, either right away with boy I'm taking already or to arrange meeting in my room in near future.

 

Even one of our members once asked if I can help boy who did not get an off for  awhile so i made boy sitting with me  for a good hour and tipped well for allowing some decent but clingy intimacy in the bar.

 

But I'd not tip boy just for fact that he is friend of the boy I happen to be with, no,  tip must be earned somehow but I like idea of boys supporting each other and I'm very receptive to idea of offing their friends is asked. 

[a447a]

When I first left Japan to venture out into the "real" world, I found this whole tipping concept very confusing. As others have pointed out, tipping in Japan is unheard of.

 

Who do you tip on a restaurant? Just the waiters? And what if you are served by more than one? Do you tip all of them?

 

And how much? Do you add a percentage of just give them the change?

 

And when do you tip? At the table? As you are leaving?

 

How do you give them the money? Slip it to them quietly or just hand it to them in the open?

 

Which countries do you tip in?

 

I learnt the importance of tipping when I first went to Hong Kong. I was staying at a very nice hotel and was expecting Japanese-like service.

 

When the bellboy brought my luggage into the foyer I noticed he was hovering next to me. Did he wasn't to have a chat? I just thanked him and left it at that. When he'd brought my luggage up to my room the same thing happened - it seemed like he didn't want to leave. I started having naughty thoughts; was he looking for a bit of fun?

 

Later in the day, as I was leaving the hotel he did not open the door for me. No greeting. No smile. Nothing.

 

The next day I went down for breakfast. Everything was fine. But the next morning the waiters totally ignored me! Nobody greeted me or brought me over a cup of coffee like they had the day before. I looked around and noticed that everyone else was being pampered and fawned over, but here was me, sitting all alone.

 

I later commented to another guest, complaining how rude the staff were.

 

"Maybe your tip wasn't enough."

 

"Tip? What tip? I didn't leave one."

 

"Well, what do you expect??"

 

So the next day I started throwing money around like a drunken sailor. And it worked like a charm! Suddenly I had changed into a VIP and the staff couldn't do enough for me. I was treated like royalty.

 

And that's when I realised that you get what you pay for. And from that day forward I have always left a tip - a very generous one if I'm planning on coming back again.

 

It works like a charm.

 

In Thailand I tend to stick to the same bars and have certain guys on hand to look after me whenever I want. So I tip them well, although not over the top as they receive money from me on a regular basis.

 

As we are total strangers, at least in the beginning, they have no incentive to go that extra mile. You have to pay for that special attention and that's what the tip is for. Once you get to know someone really well, they just take really good care of you as a matter of course, because they know that's what you expect, plus they know that they'll be getting repeat business. And for them, a regular income is probably more important than the size of the tip.

 

Some of these guys have been getting repeat business from me for years. And we are all happy!

[rollingstone]

Interesting experience by a447. But I thought generally tips are not expected in Hong Kong.

 

Granted bellboys do expect small tips but certainly not in restaurants, (proper) bars, am I wrong?

 

Of course nobody would be offended if you offer a tip.

[kokopelli]

If a place pools tips and a guy is seen pocketing a tip.... could that cause him problems?

It can at times.  At one restaurant, now closed in Sunee Plaza, I tipped a guy by putting money in his pocket but also left money in the folder. The Thai woman, wife of the owner, saw this and demanded the waiter give her the money. That was the last time I went there and did my friends.

On the other hand a Thai guy, who I hang, with always says put the tip in the waiter's hand or outside the folder