Gays' portraits removed

[reader]

From The Nation

 

 

 

Kuala Lumpur - The Malaysian government came under fire Thursday for ordering the removal of two LGBT activists' portraits from an exhibition, with campaigners labelling it an attack on the "dignity" of the gay community.

 

    The photos of Nisha Ayub and Pang Khee Teik were taken down from display at an arts festival in the northern state of Penang this week following the government order, festival organisers confirmed.

 

    Authorities in Muslim-majority Malaysia often take a dim view of homosexuality, and the country retains its colonial-era ban on sodomy.

 

    Officials have been criticised for introducing programmes directed at the LGBT community, such as a competition launched last year by the health ministry offering cash prizes to whoever could create the best video explaining how to "prevent" homosexuality.

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30351828

[spoon]

Lgbt issues becomes a hot issue now here, with religious leaders and opposition making it a political issue to bring lgbt under spotlight. Most of the lgbt activists here are under great pressure. No wonder most of lgbt here still prefer to be in the closet.

 

To be honest, the lgbt activist here arent really asking for the same rights like most western countries, like gay marriage and all legalities that comes with marriage. All they ask, at least for now is to stop discrimination against lgbt, at work, at school, at hospitals, basically everywhere.

 

Current newly elected government are more lenient towards this, but the opposition are playing the scare tactics saying that lgbt here wants exactly what were demanded in the western countries, which isnt true, and basically being ignorant to the real issues. They even quote hiv infection statistics and blood donations into picture.

[vinapu]

don't worry spoon, slowly but surely Malaysia will be there with LGBT rights, perhpas i more conservative societies is better to take 2 steps ahead , one back and then again two ahead to get forward and not to create too much waves.

[witty]

Agreed. Gays should behave like others and not create too much waves.

I would find it annoying when people (gay or otherwise) try too hard to project themselves to be noticed and acknowledged or accepted.

Chew your food a dozen times before swallowing, and try not to talk while chewing.

It will be good for you and your immediate neighbours.

[spoon]

The problem is the gay here have been minding heir own business except for the few transgender activists who are quite popular with many followers. Back to the topic of their potraits being removed, some of then even said they didnt even know their portrait being part of the exhibition. Anyway, that didnt stop people from making this issue and taking it out of context. And its so easy to condemn when you are being ignorant about lgbt in general. They still think its a choice to be lgbt, and yet if i ask any of them, would they choose to be one, id pretty sure theyll say no, and not because they are religious, but simply they dont have any feeling to the same sex in the first place.

[PeterRS]

don't worry spoon, slowly but surely Malaysia will be there with LGBT rights

 

I think you are overly optimistic dear Vinapu. Have you seen what has happened in Muslim Brunei? Shariah Law introduced for gays. So now you can be stoned to death if you decide to visit there and are accused by four people that they have seen you have sex with another man. Whether they have seen you or not is really immaterial. People can say anything for any reason these days. Fake facts?

 

Aceh Province in Indonesia seems not to go the stoning route, but they will happily break into your bedroom. If you are having sex with another guy, you will be given a good 100 lashes in public. In the greater Muslim Indonesia, there is a fast growing anti gay movement with none other than the Defence Minister claiming homosexuality is a "threat" and akin "to a modern form of warfare."

 

A Parliamentary Committee in Indonesia is even considering a proposal to ban all sex outside marriage. According to Deusche Welle, the PSeaker of the Indonesian parliament said legislation is needed to curb "homosexual excesses, such as murder, HIV/AIDS and paedophilic."

 

If you think that a couple of Islamic countries making it more difficult for gay people will result in another majority Muslim country like Malaysia easing restrictions, sorry but I suspect you need to rethink your position.

[spoon]

To be fair, the shariah law also applies to heterosexual sex outside marriage. Also on another news, one gay club in KL were raided this week, and several massage places have been raided since end of may until now. Again to be fair, these establishments are illegal anyway and exists before under corrupt gov, but now surprisingly they are still open, and most who got caught are foreign masseur who are here on invalid documentation

[paborn]

Agreed. Gays should behave like others and not create too much waves.

I would find it annoying when people (gay or otherwise) try too hard to project themselves to be noticed and acknowledged or accepted.

Chew your food a dozen times before swallowing, and try not to talk while chewing.

It will be good for you and your immediate neighbours.

I'm not sure just how long we can continue to "chew".  The sodomy laws in much of the world are a left over from the British colonial era, in other words, the people living under these laws have been chewing since Victoria's reign. Can anyone blame them for having indigestion?

[PeterRS]

I'm not sure just how long we can continue to "chew".  The sodomy laws in much of the world are a left over from the British colonial era, in other words, the people living under these laws have been chewing since Victoria's reign. Can anyone blame them for having indigestion?

 

It might have helped if the British had removed many of their laws before their rush to grant independence to former colonies. It was certainly a mad rush. It had no cash any more and massive debts. But as it was getting round to considering possible changes to its own sodomy law, it was obviously quite happy to leave it in place in much of the rest of the world. We may think Muslim nations are bad when it comes to punishing gay sex. Homosexuality remains illegal in nearly 80 countries. But most of these were British colonial possessions. Some like Nigeria, Sudan and Somalia actually increased penalties after the British departed. There we can now be subject to capital punishment. I cant see any easing of the law being possible in our lifetimes.

[spoon]

While the law is there, enforcement is another story. Overhere at least, that old colonial rules have not been enforced at all, except to prosecute political enemies. The shariah law here are very mild too, maximum 3 years jail, RM 5000(1.25k usd) fines, 6 canning and only apply to muslim and only on muslim and on muslim unique law. That means if there is a similar offense in civil law, that will trump shariah law. And its varies state by states, the law and the enforcement. There are many gays here remain in the closet, and its more of social persecution rather than the law that they are afraid of, from employers, friends, family etc.

[paborn]

Spoon, I understand what you're saying but, where is "here"

[spoon]

The board name is here, malaysia lol

[PeterRS]

While the law is there, enforcement is another story. Overhere at least, that old colonial rules have not been enforced at all, except to prosecute political enemies.

 

What you say is very reassuring. But there have been quite a lot of reports about open hostility to young gay men and women resulting in death in a lease one case last year. We have also had reports here about raids on massage places and saunas.

 

Seems even the venerable Blue Boy bar/club was raided the other evening for the first time in its long history. One report mentions this being something to do with a more hardline approach to appease Muslim parties before an election - is that next year?

 

When I lived in KL 25 years ago Blue Boy was the most popular gay meeting place in town. This time it was stated the raid was to find drugs. Isn't that always the excuse authorities use? On the other hand, one Minister has said it was to stop the spread of LGBT culture in Malay society. I wonder what happened to the 100 or so patrons who were in the bar at the time of the raid.

 

Even though Shariah Law only applies to Muslims, the ban on homosexual activity covers everyone - or at least it used to. Not a very comforting place to visit now.

[paborn]

The board name is here, malaysia lol

 

So sorry!  I'm, relatively, new here. There is another board where the posters go wildly off topic.

[spoon]

What you say is very reassuring. But there have been quite a lot of reports about open hostility to young gay men and women resulting in death in a lease one case last year. We have also had reports here about raids on massage places and saunas.

 

Seems even the venerable Blue Boy bar/club was raided the other evening for the first time in its long history. One report mentions this being something to do with a more hardline approach to appease Muslim parties before an election - is that next year?

 

When I lived in KL 25 years ago Blue Boy was the most popular gay meeting place in town. This time it was stated the raid was to find drugs. Isn't that always the excuse authorities use? On the other hand, one Minister has said it was to stop the spread of LGBT culture in Malay society. I wonder what happened to the 100 or so patrons who were in the bar at the time of the raid.

 

Even though Shariah Law only applies to Muslims, the ban on homosexual activity covers everyone - or at least it used to. Not a very comforting place to visit now.

Election already happened in mei this year, and we finally got a new gov. Current issues on lgbt started because of the OP post, and it went on to so many other rants from women on trans that used their toilets. Anyway, the new gov have been very fair on this issues. We have just passed the 100days mark of the new gov in power, and everyone is still trying to adjust with the new gov. The muslim parties were split into two, one conservative who maintain their old name and isnt part of the new gov coalition, and another more liberal muslim party who are part of the current gov. The minister actually organize a meeting with the lgbt activist to discuss this issues. Most of the noise are mase by oppositions, the muslim conservatives, that cant still move on from their lost.

 

Anyway, personally, i have been lucky enough not to be in the premises when the raids happened. I only goes to the gay massage places, and at least 3 of them has been raided, mostly only foreign masseur who dont have proper work permit were caught. Have never been to blueboy though, but it is certainly a big move since that area (bukit bintang) have been practically untouchable during previous gov reign. Raids have been done to both gay and non gay establishments though, so its not like indonesian gov who only targets gay.

[spoon]

So sorry! I'm, relatively, new here. There is another board where the posters go wildly off topic.

No need to say sorry lol. I am still lucky that bangkok is only 100usd and 2 hour flight away lol

[PeterRS]

Many thanks Spoon for all that very useful information.