The 13

[vinapu]

 

None of them mentioned fancy Western fast food.

 

 

you don't consider KFC offerings ( one boy mentioned it ) fancy Western food, I'm shocked. LOL

[fedssocr]

certainly not fancy.

 

At least one university has offered them free tuition. And I saw one offered free tuition to children of the farmers whose fields were flooded when they pumped out the water.

[traveller123]

certainly not fancy.

 

At least one university has offered them free tuition. And I saw one offered free tuition to children of the farmers whose fields were flooded when they pumped out the water.

I hope these offers work out along with nationality for the coach and those boys who are stateless.

It would mean a really good ending for the lads who in the videos leave me amazed by their personalities, constant smiles etc

[Guest abang1961]

Just a naive question -why are some of these cute, young boys STATELESS?

Isn't it mandatory to register all births of newborns within 7 working days from the date of birth?

I think the Thai government should look into granting citizen status as long as anyone can prove that one of their parents is Thai.

[PeterRS]

Just a naive question -why are some of these cute, young boys STATELESS?

Isn't it mandatory to register all births of newborns within 7 working days from the date of birth?

I think the Thai government should look into granting citizen status as long as anyone can prove that one of their parents is Thai.

 

Why do you say " as long as one of the parents is Thai"? These kids entered the cave as a team, survived as a team, all the boys are being educated in Thailand. They have been invited as a team to visit several very famous football clubs in Europe. I am certain the other boys will refuse to go unless they can all go. It would be a relatively simple matter for the Thai government to make an exception and grant citizenship to the four who are stateless, regardless of their parentage.

 

That hill tribe area close to the border with Myanmar has hundreds of thousands of stateless children and adults who were probably born in Myanmar but fled to escape the continuing hostilities in that country. These did not start with the Rohingya. They have been going on since independence. Without citizenship they cannot get passports, ID cards, they have few rights and almost no legal protection. 

Thailand has accepted many of them but will not grant them citizenship.

[Guest abang1961]

I must have been living in ivory towers for too long.

I have no knowledge of such migration of people.

How did they get into Thailand in the first place?

 

I am speaking in general, not just for that some of the stateless boys.

Without proper papers, how are they able to get proper medical and educational privileges/entitlement granted to citizens? 

[anddy]

This is not (necessarily) a recent migration phenomenon, but goes back some time. Some/many/all of the young stateless (including the coach I read somewhere) were (ostensibly) born in Thailand to parents from Myanmar who have fled there long ago. No papers, no citizenship.

 

You ask "isn't it mandatory to register a birth within 7 working days?" Well it may  be, BUT, these people probably could care less about bureaucratic things like this, especially if they live in remote areas. Or they aren't even aware of such things. Also, it MAY be that this obligation applies only to Thai citizens, not people giving birth in Thailand (though I have no knowledge of Thai law). 

 

As so often, a complex issue. I sincerely hope that this gives the Thai government a kick in the butt to resolve this not only for the boys + coach but for all the affected people, almost half a million! Some article in the BP lamented this as well and essentially said the Thai authorities are too lazy to work on it (as they hardly care).

[PeterRS]

This is not (necessarily) a recent migration phenomenon, but goes back some time. Some/many/all of the young stateless (including the coach I read somewhere) were (ostensibly) born in Thailand to parents from Myanmar who have fled there long ago. No papers, no citizenship.

 

Many were not even born in Thailand. The border in the north of the two countries is extremely porous. Many people can and do just walk across daily. I understand the coach was born in Thailand to parents from Myanmar but that a mystery illness wiped out the rest of his family when he was about 10. He was sent to a monastery and spent many years there. The papers proving his nationality at birth appear to have vanished.

 

The parents of the boy who speaks English, Adul, are ethnic Wa people from Myanmar. It was reported he was smuggled across the border when he was six and left at the door of a Church. Schools at the border routinely take in all youngsters without asking for paperwork.

[vinapu]

I hope these offers work out along with nationality for the coach and those boys who are stateless.

It would mean a really good ending for the lads who in the videos leave me amazed by their personalities, constant smiles etc

you are right, now when they are rescued we may tend to forget their initial ordeal - 10 days in the dark with no sign world even knows their fate and they still seem to come unscathed by such experience, 

 

 

One good thing , one hopes, from all that ordeal judging by comments above is to highlight plight of millions of stateless or illegally living   people all over the world who settled somewhere , at times even have quite comfortable life but they in constant fear of being stopped by authorities and asked for documents.

 

At least Thailand is not chasing them away like Burmese do with Rohingyas with Noble Peace Prize laureate in charge and saying , not to mention doing, nothing

[fedssocr]

I have seen estimates that there are something like 400,000 to perhaps 3 million "stateless" people in Thailand. As noted many are from Myanmar and escaped the civil wars going on there for a very long time. 

 

It is good that this episode has shined a light on the issue. But it's hard to imagine anything will be done about it in the end. I read somewhere that whichever general is the current foreign minister has said the boys will not be made citizens unless they have the right paperwork. And it is a process that can take many years. Apparently minor children cannot even apply on their own but must have parents do it for them. Since Adul's parents are still in Myanmar it's hard to imagine that even if the correct documents exist he could become a citizen. 

 

I had not read anything related to where coach Ek was born. But did see his parents died when he was young. I guess he has an aunt and grandmother who are in Thailand.

 

If you travel in the north there are many police checkpoints looking for people in the country illegally. 

[Guest abang1961]

Naive, again!

 

How do these stateless people survive in Thailand - manual and menial jobs only?

Should there be a yardstick to grant permanent residence first and after 7 years, they can apply for full citizenship.

Of course, I am from a country where the law is so strict that illegal migrants are few and far in between.

Once caught, they have deported after a jail sentence of up to 6 months jail and an inhumane 3 rotan strokes.

Those below 18 and above 50 are spared of the caning.

 

Back to Thailand - would a proof of employment, language proficiency test be the minimum requirement?

Thailand still need cheap labour and granting PR status has its advantage - if can be REVOKED. 

[vinapu]

 

Should there be a yardstick to grant permanent residence first and after 7 years, they can apply for full citizenship.

 

I am  not sure if Thailand even has permanent residence concept, I'm under impression you either citizen or not as we hear constantly on forums about reporting requirements for those  who are living in the country long term 

[reader]

Channel News Asia reports that the Wild Boars tried to dig their way out of their chamber. A military medic who stayed with the boys until they were rescued said he was impressed by their optimism and discipline. He credits their coach for contributing to the psychological and physical well being of his charges.

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/thailand-cave-rescue-thai-boys-coach-tham-luang-10534542

[spoon]

I am not sure if Thailand even has permanent residence concept, I'm under impression you either citizen or not as we hear constantly on forums about reporting requirements for those who are living in the country long term

They do have permanent residency, as with most countries. Whether they enforced it or not, no idea. If u have time, read their criteria at Thai embassy website. These kids would not fit any of the criteria set though. Its 3 years consecutive non-immigrant visa (which none of the kids have), and 5 categories of people who allowed permanent residency, business, expert, investor, supporting humanity reason (marriage with local or guardian/parent of local child) and one open category as thai immigration seems fit (maybe the kids can be parked under this). And 10 years as PR can qualify you to be thai naturalized citizen (these kids would not have any issue on this once the got PR though).

[Vessey]

And therein lies a conundrum for the authorities, the rescue attempt focussed the spotlight of world media attention. The boys will inevitably remain of considerable media interest for the immediate future at least, maybe beyond if block-buster movies are made.

 

How will the authorities deal with that because the status of the boys will inevitably be a factor, especially if there is any talk of travel for them (no passports). 

[PeterRS]

These kids would not fit any of the criteria

 

I read somewhere that Thailand only grants around 100 non-Thais permanent residency in each year, but I cannot guarantee the accuracy of this.

[fedssocr]

some new details about what happened from their press conference

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44876108

[reader]

From Sunday NY Times, a look inside the cave.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/07/21/world/asia/thai-cave-rescue-ar-ul.html

[fedssocr]

the Australian TV program about the rescue was much better than the American one or the Discovery channel one

https://youtu.be/-esjQLvsgTs

[reader]

From Coconuts Bangkok

 

Members of the “Wild Boars” football team hand flower garlands to Buddhist monks during a ceremony to mark the end of their retreat as novice monks at the Wat Phra That Doi Tung temple in the Mae Sai district of Chiang Rai province on August 4, 2018. The Thai boys freed from a flooded cave in a rescue bid that gripped the world left the Buddhist monastery 11 days after ordaining as novice monks to honour a diver who died in the mission to save them. / AFP PHOTO / Lillian SUWANRUMPHA

 

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/thai-cave-boys-leave-buddhist-monastery-honoring-dead-rescuer/

[vinapu]

if was good idea even if only to remove them from media spotlight for a while 

 

all in all Thailand handled while thing very well of course with exception of the first stage as nobody should be allowed to enter  cave prone to flooding as soon as rains start 

[reader]

I've been trying to think of an event that produced as much positive feelings than did this. It affirmed the very best man is capable of in the face of calamity. Courage, tenacity, selflessness on the part of the rescuers; humility, bonding, and courage on the part of the rescued. I think this is class apart and will likely remain so.

 

It will indeed be difficult for a movie to capture accurately these feelings. But with so much to work with, I look forward to the effort. The world needs to witness what occurred. It has immense potential to inspire when inspiration has never been more in need.

 

 

[Guest abang1961]

I have been hospitalized since mid-July, so I read but hardly any surplus energy to type.

I am on drips 24/7 and can use the expensive Mobile Data every once in a day.

I  am now around 45 kg - way below the required 65 kg,

 

I cannot walk away from the bed without medical supervision.

I am totally useless,

[Onlyserious]

Dear abang1961 I wish you better, soon. I love you.

[DivineMadman]

Dear abang1961 I wish you better, soon. I love you.

+1