Are Thailand’s Gay Ghettoes finished in the longer term?

[Travellerdave]

Reading the many posts to this forum’s various sections I form the opinion that this is a definite possibility. I have not visited Bangkok for a couple of years but I hear from the forum that Soi Twilight is to be bulldozed. I make regular trips to Pattaya and like others I am very aware of the sad decline of the Sunee Plaza, so that now there is only three active gogos, whereas when I first went there in 2002 there were perhaps about ten. Host bars seem deserted or closed up.

BoysTown is not what is was with the gogos being patronised to a great extent by noisy Chinese Women. Closure of iconic bars are being reported.

I used to enjoy visits to the Sansuck Sauna but I didn’t go during my last trip as I heard about lack of “action “. The Gay Beach is not now really gay, being infiltrated by st’s.

The Jomtien Complex seems to be thriving and that’s where I will be based during my next trip. But that venue could be under threat with police crack-downs against the employment of Cambodian attractive boys.

Perhaps we should stop spending holidays in the ghettoes and mix more on holiday with the general population. Society is far more tolerant now so why do we stay in Pattaya’s gay hotels, when the other 98% accept gay guests and their companions.

I used to vacation in Plays del Ingles until I discovered Thailand and had active sex with other gay men there, but unfortunately I am not so attractive anymore and there is not a commercial sex industry.

So there will be a real problem if it becomes not worth while to make the long journey to Thailand. Am I too gloomy ?

[Guest abang1961]

Welcome to the world of gay apps..Yes rent and police inspections are worrisome?..Of course, one get to see the boys in front of us in bars but I reckon things will change (for good) ..

[vinapu]

I'm not worried at all. Yes , I see decline in number of gay places but those still open are offering waaaaaaaaaaaaayy more than I can utilize and manage to finance during my 1-2  annual trips. Every day when there I visit 1 or 2 massage places and at least one bar  and there are still some I did not put my foot inside for  a while.

 

So I leave doom and gloom to others and no , I'm not planning on using apps as filler  any time soon. Sure if all my great 5 -Arena Senso, Tawan , Screwboys and BBB Pattaya which I visit every trip at least one would close all at once I were to have second thoughts about next trip but can't see this happening anytime soon.  

[DivineMadman]

I think the answer is no, but FYI first three or so minutes of this news report is about last night's raid on R3 Sauna.  (Unfortunately all in Thai.)

 

http://news.ch3thailand.com/rerun/5/125521

[hanan]

I am very aware of the sad decline of the Sunee Plaza, so that now there is only three active gogos, whereas when I first went there in 2002 there were perhaps about ten.

They are four:

Eros

Winner boys

Nice boys

Powerboys

[Travellerdave]

Yes Hunan you are right, but I tend not to regard Eros as a Gogo in that the boys there don’t do much dancing, hence my figure of 3.

[Vessey]

Yes Hunan you are right, but I tend not to regard Eros as a Gogo in that the boys there don’t do much dancing, hence my figure of 3.

 

Well perhaps not much dancing, but they are very definitely 'performers' LOL

[Vessey]

But back to topic,

 

Pattaya is still, in global terms, a very young city - from fishing village to sprawling conurbation in 50 years; it is evolving and growing at a rapid pace. Change is to be expected, maybe even welcomed, albeit cautiously. 

 

50 years ago the local economy was based on fishing and sex, with sex in the ascendancy. Pattaya's global image may still be based on sex, but it is now only a tiny part of the city's economy, and it is a reputation that the City Fathers are all to keen to overturn.

 

All that will happen, I suspect, over the next few decades is that the sex industry will be moved out from the centre of town. The sex industry still seems to thrive in Bangkok, albeit more discretely than it does in Patttaya.

 

To that end, what of the current Gay centres. Boyztown, like Walking Street, is almost iconic, a byword for the gay side of sex tourism in the city, perhaps becoming even more showcase than sleaze.

 

If anything such changes should favour Sunee Plaza - its geography is discrete rather than remote; here sleaze survives (than goodness!). A cafe style culture, similar to Boyztown, to sit and drink and agogos to frequent. 

 

Not all bars are good at self publicity given the fast-moving social media world of today. Soi 6 and its girlie bars are examples of how to do it, they use forums and social media to promote themselves and their girls on a daily basis. Too many gay bars (and forums!) still seem content to remain hiding in the shadows and then wonder why they lack customers and interest.

[Guest DThump]

Too many gay bars (and forums!) still seem content to remain hiding in the shadows and then wonder why they lack customers and interest.

Anyone gay coming to Thailand generally knows what they want and where to go, the gay scene cannot be compaired to the huge amount of straight venues.

[PeterRS]

I believe all the indicators point to the commercial gay scene getting even smaller. I think Vessey is correct. In Bangkok the scene will continue to see more closures and a move further from the centre. Same in Pattaya. The present government seems determined to get rid of the Thailand as a Gay Sex Tourist reputation and to finish off what the Thaikhsin government started in the early 2000s. Just look at how the scene in Chiang Mai and Phuket has virtually collapsed from the thriving places these used be for gay tourists with many got bars, host bars and other places. So many have closed and not been replaced.

 

The one part which will probably survive and even flourish could be gay massage venues I reckon.

[vinapu]

 

 

The one part which will probably survive and even flourish could be gay massage venues I reckon.

reason good enough for me to fly in, some of my earlier  trips to Thailand  included only single visit to bar, with age I seem to frequent them more often though.

[Travellerdave]

It would be interesting to know the number of gay visitors to Thailand over the years - say from year 2000. The general view from posts on this forum and from conversations and my own impressions is that numbers have declined significantly. But we get these impressions from our own activities in the gay ghettoes. There are probably a substantial number of gays who don’t visit BT, Sunee Plaza and the Jomtien Complex.

We are never going to know this statistic - there is no tick box on the visa waiver form for stating gay ?.

As to massage venues I don’t make much use of them. I don’t rate the therapeutic part and the rest I prefer to enjoy in bed. So if only massage venues are going to survive I will have to go elsewhere, such as European resorts. As I have mentioned 20 years ago I had many holidays at Playa de Las Americas with its gay section on the beach. But unfortunately I have not now the body to parade there nude or in a g-string, which I used to do. I still have the leather g-string but darent wear it on Dongtan.

[PeterRS]

It would be interesting to know the number of gay visitors to Thailand over the years - say from year 2000. The general view from posts on this forum and from conversations and my own impressions is that numbers have declined significantly. But we get these impressions from our own activities in the gay ghettoes. There are probably a substantial number of gays who don’t visit BT, Sunee Plaza and the Jomtien Complex.

We are never going to know this statistic - there is no tick box on the visa waiver form for stating gay

 

A thought. My gut feel is that the number has not gone down much. Much more that the type of gay tourist has changed. At the turn of the century the majority were probably older westerners (older being 45 and up) who came for around 10 days to 3 weeks. This group focussed more on sex and the gogo bars and some saunas. Now the majority are quite well off younger Asians who come for much shorter two or three long weekends each year. I do not think gogo features much in most of these guys visits. They are more here for shopping in the daytimes and are later into the massage and sauna scene with disco, clubs or Soi 4 to follow. Far more come in pairs or groups than the solo westerners of earlier years and socialise within their own groups. Offing boys does not play a major part in their trips. You just have to check the Singapore based chat site mentioned here some time ago Blowingwind. It has long threads on visiting Thailands major cities and phuket. The vast majority of posts are about massage.

 

What will happen as the number of gay Chinese visitors increases I cant guess.

[spoon]

The reason why the massage board blowingwind didnt talk much on thai board about the gogoboy or money boy is because they can go to JB or KL in malaysia to get MB without taking a plane. If u read JB and KL thread, thats all we talked about there lol. General rules in that board is we cant talk about prostitution but somehow for these cities specific board, they dont do much moderating to disallow that discussion.

[fedssocr]

well, I'd suggest that "gay ghettoes" are disappearing everywhere. Here in DC the gay ghetto used to be Dupont Circle. Then the straights moved in because we had fixed it up so nicely. More and more re-development and "luxury" apartments followed. The younger generations don't seem interested in having a gayborhood or don't need one. They have their gay friends and straight friends and are more integrated. Gay bars are in decline everywhere. Everyone meets online or on apps.

 

So, this isn't something limited to Thailand. It's just the way things are going. (And anyway those places highlighted aren't really where the local gays lived...it's just where they went to cater to gay sex tourists)

[Guest DThump]

I remember going to a gay bar in Dupont and there was a few gay sleezy venues off of South Capital one being La Cage...anything left there?

[Guest abang1961]

I believe as long as the money is good, boys will be attracted there.

Perhaps the current bar scene at Sunee is depressing, new enclaves will develop elsewhere.

 

Furthermore with the advent of mobile apps, both clients and boys do not need to converge at any one place.

A boy is just a call/message/click away.

It is a win-win situation where clients need NOT pay for drinks and bar fines.

And for the boys, there's always another job/man/love waiting around the corner.

[PeterRS]

Perhaps the current bar scene at Sunee is depressing, new enclaves will develop elsewhere.

 

Furthermore with the advent of mobile apps, both clients and boys do not need to converge at any one place.

A boy is just a call/message/click away.

 

I dont quite understand this logic. I agree the apps make meeting up with fellow gays far easier than it ever was before. But if there is no need to converge in one location, how is it that new enclaves will develop elsewhere? Just curious.

[vinapu]

apps may be good for hook-ups but  with demise of bars entertainment factor would be gone, at least as far as I'm concerned

[fedssocr]

I remember going to a gay bar in Dupont and there was a few gay sleezy venues off of South Capital one being La Cage...anything left there?

 

There are still a couple of gay bars on 17th St (JR's and Cobalt) and there are a few others (Nellie's Sports Bar is on U St not in Dupont and there's Larry's Lounge on 18th which is not really central Dupont being several blocks from the circle...it's more Adams Morgan). The sleazy area in SE has been totally redeveloped with the baseball stadium and tons of new luxury apartments. Ziegfeld's/Secrets still exists for now, but the new soccer stadium is going up closeby and the neighborhood will be changing a lot in the years to come.

[reader]

Use to visit DC regularly and recall many of the Dupont Circle area hangouts. One that stands out was Annie's Steak House on 17th st. which functioned more as an upscale diner that remained open to the wee hours.

 

 

This 2017 article lists other venues, many of which I also recall.

https://www.tripsavvy.com/best-washington-dc-gay-nightlife-1417468

 

Although I think The LOS  will experience a consolidation of gay bars accessible and popular with visitors, the overall scene is far from what has occurred in the west . There will always be a place for high-end show bars that are cash cows (any business that proves a cash cow will find a place).

 

Visitors will also keep the massage industry thriving, particularly in Bangkok. Those who don't feel comfortable entering a bar are more inclined to try the massage experience. They're assured of physical contact and that's a pretty good way to get newcomers in the door.

 

I lament what has happened in New York, Boston and so many other US cities but I don't believe it foreshadows what's in store for Thailand where life is lived more outdoors year-round. Thais and other southeast Asians are more social and comfortable in crowds. That can be quite an attractive option to visitors from places where it's not.

[PeterRS]

There will always be a place for high-end show bars that are cash cows (any business that proves a cash cow will find a place).

Is there not something omitted here? Government, Tourism Authority and City Councils policies? I realise that there have been crackdowns in the past and they have proved either totally unsuccessful or only partially so. This time I detect a difference. You can see it in the ads which keep on running on True Visions channels about a sparkling new Bangkok/Pattaya axis. Its a continuation of what has happened in Phuket and Chiang Mai. Venues for Thais will mostly remain open and hidden from tourists. Establishments catering mostly to tourists and farang will mostly not be permitted to continue. Redevelopment will account for some. Lack of finding a new business strategy for others. Failure to  obtain new licences for the rest. I am not optimistic. 

[reader]

Establishments catering mostly to tourists and farang will mostly not be permitted to continue. Redevelopment will account for some. Lack of finding a new business strategy for others. Failure to  obtain new licences for the rest. I am not optimistic. 

 

Money always wins out in the LOS. Even the highest-minded decision makers are prone to take a fresh look at a situation when the case is adequately presented by the right intermediary. If there's one philosophy that underpins the hi-so philosophy it's "nothing succeeds like success."

[reader]

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