paying off fees for boys but only taking them out for drinks

[jason1975]

I feel this deserves its own topic in the forum.

 

For those of you who have paid off fees for a few boys but only took them out for drinks instead of sex, could you share with us your experiences? What are factors that determine your choices? How many boys? Which bars do you take them to? What drinks do you order and what do you chat about? How long is the drinking session? Finally, how much do you tip the boys?

 

After i found out that some customers do this, i am tempted to try it on next trip next year.

[Alexx]

Personally, I wouldn't do that. If they want to drink with me, they are welcome to do that on their day off or after work - no reason to pay their bar an off fee for that kind of activity.

[Guest]

I cannot think of any reason to do that.

 

My farang friends are way better for conversation & they buy their own drinks. If I want to attempt conversation with a Thai boy, there are plenty of host bars where I can drink on the premises & no off fee is needed.

[vinapu]

I'm not  a bar person  so like Alexx and z909 above I'd not entertain such an option, particularly at expenses of off fee  but I always make sure that I have Hong Thong or other  equally classy Thai spirit in my room and always offer a boys shot or three.

 

Taking boys for a meal before heading to the hotel is , on another hand, my standard operational procedure for all long time offs    unless they decline.

 

But based on posts in forums and conversation with boys , taking them out just for a drinking session is quite popular pastime for a lot of customers so I don't see  anything weird or wasteful in doing that and perhaps it's even cheaper than taking them for  a shopping trip to the mall or market, another popular activity I don't partake in.  

 

as for paying off fee for just a drinking session one may consider it waste of resources but I don't as sometimes seeing beautiful specimen I'm tempted to take him to my room  just to look at him to no end or for hand holding only session.  

[Vessey]

I have done it several times, and mostly it is when I have been into a bar with someone else as my LT for the night and we have got chatting with someone I know who has asked if I can barfine him to come with us for drinks/dancing/etc. but not (well occasionally) come back to the room with us.

 

The boy who I have done this most often with is Tao from Eros Bar/Toy Boys, who has been one of my regulars for several trips now, who will often ask if he can accompany us - barfine there is cheap anyhow, and he is great company, he seems to get on with everyone, dances, flirts and his English is fairly good. I usually give him a tip when he departs - 500 baht is basic - but can be more if he has really been on form and enlivened the evening.

 

Unless he has other plans, Tao is usually quite willing to come back to the room with us, but only on those occasions when my barfine suggests it - and then the fun can really start, unless we are all too drunk. LOL 

 

Where do we go? - anywhere really, but he shares my fondness for Zab and the Stonehouse on Walking Street, and loves Nab. 

[Jasper]

‘What are factors that determine your choices?’

• As with previous poster, I ask my LT off if he wants to go out drinking&dancing. If he says yes I ‘d let him choose drinking buddies and venues. I like watching boys in more natural environments out of bars interacting each other enjoying themselves. I think if you pick drinking buddies according to your taste it may not work since there are many factions and power battles inside the bar, your LT off and your pick of the drinking buddies could be enemies. Just like Vinapu’s 3P rules “How to pick a third boy- let your boy choose his favourite.’

Sometimes you’d be surprised to see a boy who looks unfriendly, no smile on stage is in fact very chatty and fun or vice versa.

 

‘How many boys?’

 

• Usually 3-5 boys. Ideally three boys but difficult to say no if pleaded.

 

Which bars do you take them to?

• Boys take me so I really don’t know the names but I think I went to Tawandang where they play live music in November.

 

‘What drinks do you order’

• I don’t order. I let them order usually JW black label.

 

‘what do you chat about?’

•I don’t really initiate conversations just watching boys drinking, dancing. Chatty boys talk about their recent trip overseas Japan, China with customer showing photo of various places and customer. haha

 

‘How long is the drinking session?’

•1-3 hours usually we are the first to leave. Rest of boys move on to another bar until early morning.

 

‘how much do you tip the boys?’

• 1000-2000, but mostly 1000 Baht.

 

There was this funny episode a few months back. I took a couple of muscular boys to the club. The model guy on stage of the club was shirtless but his abs aren’t great as my companions.

One of the boys suggested that they should take off their shirt and show off as they are better than the boy on the stage. haha

 

PS Why do Thais clink glasses every 10 seconds?

[DivineMadman]

Great topic.  

 

What are factors that determine your choices?   I live in Bangkok roughly six months a year now.  Each year my social universe seems to settle into a familiar pattern of 1-2± main guys.  If the main guy works at a bar, I usually get to be friendly/more-than-acquaintances with his best friends at that bar.   I probably am the one suggesting we all pick a convenient evening to go do something special like visit a club or Morlam, or if it's one of their birthdays I am happy to seize on the moment and co-host a birthday party.  I don't particularly like sitting around drinking - in go-go bars or host bars.  I loathe karaoke. But I enjoy clubs.  These are guys that I've gotten to know and that I like to hang out with fully-clothed.   

 

 

How many guys? It's usually me, main guy and 3 of his best friends.  If it's a birthday party it has ranged from 10-20+, but I wouldn't pay any bar fine for birthday parties.  So I might pay the bar fine for 3 people, 4 people max.  If another 3-4 people show up later after work, that's ok with me too.  I just don't pay bar fine.

 

Which bars do you take them to?  I've gone to Morlam out in the suburbs (didn't pay any bar fines - we just scheduled on a day off); App Arena, Fake Club and another of the Thai night clubs name I've forgotten.  Mostly, however  I like to go to  "Dancing Isaan" -- Tamnan Khon Isaan -- on Charoen Rat (https://goo.gl/maps/PSfzc97LBP22).  It's the most fun in Bangkok and doesn't have any Hi-So pretensions, which can cause anxiety for some of the guys.  (Unrelated, but for "date nights" I'll go to Stranger Bar, Maggie Choo's or Moon Bar with my date.)  

 

What drinks do you order and what do you chat about? We just order the bottle service of whatever normal vile whiskey and vodka everybody else is getting.  We chat about what inebriated gays chat about around the world.  Idle chit chat.  The cute guys at the table over there.  The weather.  The dancers.  Life back home.  Is the drag queen good/bad.  Is the singer good/bad.  Maybe some customer stories.  How bad the boss is.  How good the food is.  Different countries I've visited.  I have a little Thai -- we make it work, but the music is so loud it's not about having deep conversations.  They all have the phone apps that randomly determine who does shots, so we do that, or play rock paper scissor for shots.  It's really just like going out to a club back home.  I bring ear plugs.

 

How long is the drinking session?  3-4 hours.

 

How much do you tip the boys?  I'll usually pay for drinks and food.  (I encourage ordering food or snacks just because there is so much alcohol involved.)  For bar guys I'll tip the amount that we agreed beforehand - 300 baht.  That 300 was first suggested by my guy at the time.  So from his and his friend's perspective, they get a night off and some decent pocket money.  If they need the money from an off, then they stay at work and can come by later (but of course no bar fine payable by me.)  Additional hangers-on - nothing.  My current situation the main guy and his friends are not MBs, so I just force 100-200 for "taxi."  

[jason1975]

thanks for responses, my fellow forum members

 

alexx and z909, your responses are perfectly valid. i myself thought that it was silly to pay bar off for boys just to chat with them but upon thinking further, i do believe that this is something to consider, perhaps just for a change from the normal routine.

 

thanks, Vessey, jasper and Divine Madman for sharing your very informative experiences.

 

and of course, thanks, Vinapu, for chipping in

[jason1975]

how much do you tip the boys?’

• 1000-2000, but mostly 1000 Baht.

Wow, that's really generous!

[jason1975]

I'm not  a bar person  so like Alexx and z909 above I'd not entertain such an option, particularly at expenses of off fee  but I always make sure that I have Hong Thong or other  equally classy Thai spirit in my room and always offer a boys shot or three.

I have not tasted Hong Thong or other Thai spirits but I shall try them next time I visit Thailand. Drinking with the boys of koz!

[jason1975]

I loathe karaoke.

Karaoke is fun! I am sure the boys love to sing!

[jason1975]

Mostly, however  I like to go to  "Dancing Isaan" -- Tamnan Khon Isaan -- on Charoen Rat (https://goo.gl/maps/PSfzc97LBP22).  It's the most fun in Bangkok and doesn't have any Hi-So pretensions

 

I did some Googling on this place. It looks amazing! Shall try to go there next trip!

[jason1975]

for "date nights" I'll go to Stranger Bar, Maggie Choo's or Moon Bar with my date.)  

Vertigo and Moon Bar? That's classy!

 

Maggie Choo's seems like a really interesting place.

 

I haven't been to these places because I always hang around the Soi Twilight bars (and Screwboys, Jupiter and Boys66) during my trips (which are very short). I need to ration my vacation leave and plan for a 2-week stay in 2018.

[jason1975]

I do think it will be an experience to pay off fees for 3 or 4 boys and just take them out for a night of drinks without sex.

 

Karaoke suits me so I might do that.

 

Going to Dancing Isaan is also a tempting proposition for me.

 

The only downer involved for me is that I don't get to see them in their underwear if we just go out drinking at the bars.

 

I am thinking of inviting the boys back to hotel room and play card games with them and provide them drinks - with the condition that they be in their underwear. I probably tip them 500 baht each.

 

Do you think the boys will bite at the offer?

[reader]

 

 It's the most fun in Bangkok and doesn't have any Hi-So pretensions, which can cause anxiety for some of the guys.

 

 

 

The issue of Hi-So pretensions brings to mind an incident that occurred on my last trip.  I took a guy I was spending the day (and night) with to Siam Paragon, a place he rarely goes. Knowing he's interested in gyms and fitness centers, I took him to upper level where there's a high end health club just to look around.  I went over to the reception desk and asked if it was possible to take a tour, as they pulled out a form to fill out I looked around and my guy was standing far back and was clearly uncomfortable. He knew how he would be treated by the hi-so staff.  I quickly read the situation and told the receptionist perhaps another time.

 

The list of things I don't like about Thailand is extremely short but the way many hi-so's treat those they consider "inferior" sits at the very top.

[Boy69]

The Thai society is hierarchical :the light skin feel superior to dark skin, the Buddhists to Muslims, the central and north to Isaan and south Thailand,The rich ones to poors and so on.

 

At first impression we the falangs once we see the night life at Pattaya, BKK and Phuket we get the wrong impression that the Thai society is liberal and open minded but it is far from being the true actually it is very conservative culture with very restricted rules.

[spoon]

We get that same treatment here in malaysia too. If u go to the "hi-so" places dressed like a slob, and u are malaysian, they will think that u come from the village and will give you a very so-so treatment with the look, true if you are from the south east asia as well. Its what we called internal discrimination or internal racism if that even possible lol. The worker/staff always thinks that their own race are inferior to the many foreigners that often comes to their stores. It could be due to our country were ruled by them for so many years before independence. If i notice such treatment, i usually just skip the stores and went to other stores, perhaps nearby and within sight of that staff, and buy all the things i need directly from their competitors. That should show them up. A friend of mine, indonesian, who earns more than me, also once being treated like he got no money, so he went ahead and withdraw cash to pay for the most expensive laptop in that shop. Lol

[Jasper]

I am thinking of inviting the boys back to hotel room and play card games with them and provide them drinks - with the condition that they be in their underwear. I probably tip them 500 baht each.

 

Do you think the boys will bite at the offer?

Maybe in Pattaya and with twinks.

I don’t want to be a killjoy but cannot see the boys I usually take for night out, in Bangkok muscular guys doing underwater with fellow bar boys with reward of 500B.

They would consider it just like a short time job unless you know the boys very well and friend with them.

[DivineMadman]

The issue of Hi-So pretensions brings to mind an incident that occurred on my last trip.  I took a guy I was spending the day (and night) with to Siam Paragon, a place he rarely goes. Knowing he's interested in gyms and fitness centers, I took him to upper level where there's a high end health club just to look around.  I went over to the reception desk and asked if it was possible to take a tour, as they pulled out a form to fill out I looked around and my guy was standing far back and was clearly uncomfortable. He knew how he would be treated by the hi-so staff.  I quickly read the situation and told the receptionist perhaps another time.

 

The list of things I don't like about Thailand is extremely short but the way many hi-so's treat those they consider "inferior" sits at the very top.

Plus these guys are generally terrible at filling out forms.  He might have found that intimidating as well.  Not for this particular topic, but the Thai education system falls seriously short in some areas.

[DivineMadman]

The Thai society is hierarchical :the light skin feel superior to dark skin, the Buddhists to Muslims, the central and north to Isaan and south Thailand,The rich ones to poors and so on.

 

At first impression we the falangs once we see the night life at Pattaya, BKK and Phuket we get the wrong impression that the Thai society is liberal and open minded but it is far from being the true actually it is very conservative culture with very restricted rules.

Agree.  I think the common view of even long-time residents, journalists, etc., is that foreigners can never really truly understand Thai society fully.  

[vinapu]

I have not tasted Hong Thong or other Thai spirits but I shall try them next time ...

make sure you have a valid will / just kidding, actually I find Hong Thong quite drinkable, particularly when blended with another dose of the same /

 

reason I drink that stuff is my strong believing that travelers  should taste and use as much of local products of country visited as possible 

 

Very interesting reflections on Thai society in this topic by the way. I'm glad I need to deal only with lower classes while there.

[sglad]

 The worker/staff always thinks that their own race are inferior to the many foreigners that often comes to their stores. It could be due to our country were ruled by them for so many years before independence. If i notice such treatment,

 

It's resentment, pure and simple.  You're of the same colour as they are and yet you can afford to be the patron and they have to serve you.  At least with the farang they can create an imagined cultural-social-economic 'distance' to rationalise their own deficiencies and insecurities.  Too many of these sales/service people are ignorant of their own history or they would understand the amount of damage colonialism did to native populations. If I receive undeserved poor treatment at any establishment I would never ever give them any business again and I would tell everyone who cares to hear about it either in person or via social media.

 

 

If i notice such treatment, i usually just skip the stores and went to other stores, perhaps nearby and within sight of that staff, and buy all the things i need directly from their competitors. That should show them up. A friend of mine, indonesian, who earns more than me, also once being treated like he got no money, so he went ahead and withdraw cash to pay for the most expensive laptop in that shop. Lol

 

Personally, I would never reward bad behaviour.  It proves nothing.  These people get commissions especially from the sales of luxury goods.  I wouldn't give them my business. There are always, ALWAYS other options and there are many more Thais and other Asians who will treat you well than those who won't.  Over this past year I have made many good Thai friends from different walks of life who have helped me, supported me, tolerated me - for no economic benefit to themselves -  and they are the ones whom I will choose to remember and keep in touch with when I leave.

[steveboy]

reason I drink that stuff is my strong believing that travelers  should taste and use as much of local products of country visited as possible 

 

Very interesting reflections on Thai society in this topic by the way. I'm glad I need to deal only with lower classes while there.

 

You should not need to risk your health drinking those spirits, since you already make plenty of use of local boys.

There is some truth in that lower class people are wiser than upper class ones.

[sglad]

Agree.  I think the common view of even long-time residents, journalists, etc., is that foreigners can never really truly understand Thai society fully.  

 

The only thing I'd agree with that view is that it is indeed common.  No-one whether internal or external to a society can understand it fully.  While we can make some convenient assumptions and ascribe certain cultural traits to a group of people for our own convenience, it is no substitute for seeing them as sub-groups and individuals pockmarked by unique social, educational, economic, political, religious, gender and regional differences and personal choices that are continuously evolving.  Otherwise, you'd always be stuck with a glossy, coffee-table-book mentality of Thailand, Asia, etc which is not helpful and is bound to provide a fertile ground for prejudices and stereotyping.

[Alexx]

Indeed, sglad. Whenever I read something like "no foreigners can ever fully understand Thai society", I wonder if those who write that are under the illusion that they fully understand their own society.