Arena

[DrimVoiz]

Don't go to Arena, the management is dishonest. The pricing on menu and what is quoted by managers are different.

 

I wonder whether they charge different customers different minimum tips.

 

I had bad experience with them....

Sorry 2 disagree with u...I had a very good experience @ Arena recently. The manager is very honest 2 say d minimum tip & its up to me if I want to give additional. The muscular masseur is not demanding anything & his massage/happy ending & treatment to me is very good, he was very grateful when I gave additional tip. The manager even ask if I'm satisfied with the massage experience, of course, I said definitely like it. I'm saying all of this based on very good experience with the place.

[DrimVoiz]

Are you sure?

Yup, I'm sure, your pic looks a few years back, even the place does not look like that anymore, most especially the masseurs

[ChristianPFC]

The minimum tip is there to be a fair way to balance the interests of the customer and the masseur. 

 

Minimum tip is an asymmetry: the boy knows what he gets, the customer does not know what he gets.

 

For that reason, I largely avoid places that have a minimum tip stated.

 

In gay massage places with no minimum tip stated, I had several massages that were so-so, and the boy's idea of a happy ending was very different from mine, so I did just massage and no happy ending and tipped accordingly (that is 300 THB for massage).

 

(Minimum tip a bit of reminds me of a now closed short-lived gogo or host bar in basement of Wall Street Tower diagonally opposite Soi Twilight across Surawong, who would not let me have a look inside without buying a drink first. I refused. Later I learned, that they were low on boys. And I would certainly not pay for a drink to look at less than 10 boys. Exception is Super A, but at 100 THB per drink you can't go wrong.)

[Guest]

Minimum tip is an asymmetry: the boy knows what he gets, the customer does not know what he gets.

Agreed. Admittedly the other way is asymmetric in favour of the customer, since the service is delivered before the tip is paid. However, as the customer, I prefer the latter option.

 

I had several massages that were so-so, and the boy's idea of a happy ending was very different from mine, so I did just massage and no happy ending and tipped accordingly (that is 300 THB for massage).

On the rare occasions that a massage is unsatisfactory, I decline any happy ending option & tip accordingly.  If it's really poor, no further tip is paid, since I have already paid for the massage & the tip would only be for good service. Thankfully, this is the exception & it is several years since I've had to do that.

[DivineMadman]

Minimum tip is an asymmetry: the boy knows what he gets, the customer does not know what he gets.

 

For that reason, I largely avoid places that have a minimum tip stated.

 

 

This "asymmetry" talk just seems to be a bit of fuzzy logic in support of conclusion that's already been made.  Which is fine - I have said before, if for whatever reason someone doesn't think a minimum tip arrangement is right for him, then don't go.  But let's not try to exalt it into something more, as if "asymmetry" was somehow wrong or problematic per se -- or even accurate.  And I certainly hope that it doesn't confuse people and steer them away from these shops, which certainly have a lot of fully satisfied happy customers every day -- they have the biggest selection of guys and are the easiest to go to and have a good time.

 

At the particular shop we're talking about here - Arena - they have for eons been 100% clear in writing that the minimum tip includes massage, naked masseur, HJ and shower.  (More than that has to be negotiated.)   Thus, the customer does know what he's getting.   Perhaps people may have different views, but I think that if you went to Arena and didn't get a hand job - a part of the stated minimum tip - I personally believe that the manager would be appalled and get you another guy or agree you wouldn't have to pay the full minimum tip.  That particular scenario happened to me once at the old Banana Club, and those were the solutions offered to me.  

 

The actual quality of the massage may differ.  So what you don't get to do is adjust your tip based on your subjective view of the quality of the massage after it's over.   So what these shops offer is properly understood to be a sensuous massage of middling-to-good quality.  Let's be clear, that's not "asymmetry."  If you order a meal at a restaurant and you decide that the pad thai was, well, sub par, because you like it with more (or less) coriander, you don't get to decide to pay less.  And you wouldn't stop going to restaurants because the whole business is based on this apparent asymmetry that you have to order your food and agree to pay ahead of time.   At any of these shops there is a range in the quality of the  massages.  That's what you're buying.  Unfortunately there's no real way around that.  If the quality of the massage is paramount, then you have to go to some of the boutiques that distinguish themselves by the quality of the massage or just go to the always excellent but [mostly] legit Prime.  

 

There are a bunch of other minimum tip shops that have higher minimum tips, but this includes in that minimum tip full on oral and if you want penetrative sex  (Usually when the minimum tip starts at 1,000/hour).  You do have to specify exactly what you want ahead of time to be sure that the masseur does what you want.  But the actual situations where the customer has been clear ahead of time and the masseur still doesn't perform are not that common.  (Reports are much more common of guys being off'd from gogo bars and not being able to perform.)

 

Personally, I don't like having to pause two-thirds of the way through a massage to have a negotiation about what the guy will do, so I prefer having it all agreed and priced ahead of time.  I also think that Prince, Arena, etc. would not get the same quality guys if those guys had to worry about what customers pay. 

[bucknaway]

I don't think I would eat at a restaurant that has a high minimum tip in place.

[DivineMadman]

I don't think I would eat at a restaurant that has a high minimum tip in place.

Unclear what the point here is, but in case it's subtle or unclear:--  At Arena, Prince, the Soi Twilight shops, VCK, Senso, Leo, Baantewa, Urban Male, My Hero, etc., etc., etc., etc., the cost of the massage has two components.  One piece goes to the house, which may or may not be shared in part with the masseur.  The other piece, as a general rule, goes to the masseur.  (There are occasionally reports of some places where some goes back to the manager.)  The portion that goes to the masseur is usually styled the "minimum tip."  It may be called a "tip" but it is not discretionary.  So the analogy isn't to the "tip" at a restaurant - it's to the full menu cost of the meal.  Surprised that's such a subtle point.

 

If that bothers you then don't go there.  If you think that it is wrong that the 24 year old good looking man giving you a naked massage, happy ending or at the higher priced shops recreational sex gets a commitment up front from you that you will pay roughly 1,000 bath/hour, then by all means steer clear of those shops.  I can understand some people may not like that because, well, what if the guy's hand job technique is bad?  Why tip him?  Or why tip the full amount if maybe I only liked it 80%?  After all, anything I pay is still more than they make at 7-11, right?  DON"T GO TO THESE SHOPS.   They will survive without your business and there are plenty of other places for you to get a rollicking good time, and those other shops deserve business too.  They may not have as many guys.  The facilities may not be as nice, but that's a choice customers can make.  

 

For "full service" shops, roughly 1,000 baht per hour is standard in Bangkok for the masseur -- again for full service.  That arrangement is what let's us have 30-40 very handsome men at a place like Prince or Arena.  If that's too much for someone, again, again, again, don't waste your or anyone else's time.  There are cheaper alternatives so go crazy.

[spoon]

I am for the minimum tips. They let u know up front what is the price, the word tips here is just to differentiate where the money goes, fee to the shop, tip to the masseur. So u know how much u need to pay minimum upfront, and if its too much, no need to bother going there. It beats the places where no minimum is stated but then the masseur quote u crazy high tips when u are already super horny and think using your dick head rather than your head lol. Which means u either pay to get release or dont pay and be severely frustrated sexually. U can buy a 10buck shoes or 200 bucks shoes but none of u like to pay 20usd only to know that if u want to use the shoes longer than 20min u have to pay 180usd

[bucknaway]

I go to arena off and on and I understand the business structure, I just took exception to relating it to that of a restaurant and paying for food and relating that to the tip at a massage place.

 

In a restaurant you pay for the meal and tip the server.

 

In a massage business, you pay for the massage and tip the massage worker.

 

If a restaurant had a price structure that demanded a high minimum tip for the servers unrelated to how good their service was than you could say it was a similar business model to a thai massage business. That's all.

[DivineMadman]

 

In a massage business, you pay for the massage and tip the massage worker.

 

If you state it axiomatically like that, the problem is that sometimes people think the "tip" to the masseur is inherently discretionary because somehow the very notion of tip includes that concept.  That is simply not how the  "minimum tip" economically operates at these shops.  Clinging to simplistic "tip" notion can lead to confusion, which I think can then lead to disappointment/misunderstandings.   The confusion is eliminated in these types of shop when people see that "minimum tip" is the minimum amount payable to the masseur and don't get hung up on the "tip" notion.   

[GWMinUS]

If a restaurant had a price structure that demanded a high minimum tip for the servers unrelated to how good their service was than you could say it was a similar business model to a thai massage business. That's all.

 

Bucky, many High End restaurants DO have a Minimum Tip. It is often stated at the bottom of the Menu. In some places it may only be for a larger Group of dinners, like 6 or more. And it is often 20 to 25%.

I think the "problem" here is calling this a Tip. Tips ARE usually discretionary, based on satisfaction with the quality of the product and the level of service provided.

It would be much better in my mind if the amount paid the Massage Guy was listed as a Fee. There would be a Massage Fee for the Shop and a Masseur Fee for the Guy. Clear and simple. But then I am not the owner of the shop.

[spoon]

Minimum tip is fee, whatever u give on top of that is what the westerners called tips, which is discretionary.

[ay709394]

It is just the use of name "tips" by these massage shop make some people confused anyway. People think tips should not be fixed, when applying to their place of living. But here is Thailand, things not necessary be the same as the place you live, why you complain about it as long as you are told before you buying the service?

 

I never been to arena before, not because of the tips. The only thing in arena confuse me is their masseur type. Some people here say they are mid 20, but some people say they are more mature type with more beefy body which is not my cup of tea.

[spoon]

U can choose from the line, ive been lucky enough the two times i went there, i found someone my type, and i hardly need to decide who to choose.

[DrimVoiz]

It is just the use of name "tips" by these massage shop make some people confused anyway. People think tips should not be fixed, when applying to their place of living. But here is Thailand, things not necessary be the same as the place you live, why you complain about it as long as you are told before you buying the service?

 

I never been to arena before, not because of the tips. The only thing in arena confuse me is their masseur type. Some people here say they are mid 20, but some people say they are more mature type with more beefy body which is not my cup of tea.

To be safe, the age group there of the gym buff masseurs are mid20s to early 30s, been there last month.

[stijntje]

To be safe, the age group there of the gym buff masseurs are mid20s to early 30s, been there last month.

 

I was there this week. I would rather say : late 20s to early 40s

[vinapu]

 I would rather say : late 20s to early 40s

no harm done as far as I'm concerned

[traveller123]

I have just had a smile about the posts on discretionary tipping.

I am a Brit and apart from the increasing practise of automatically adding 10% to a restaurant bill in the UK you tip what you feel the meal and service deserve.

I tried doing this on visits to the US, it was not a pleasant reaction when the waiter/waitress felt I hadn't tipped enough.

I have just returned from a trip to Vietnam with hubby and tips were not expected (sorry nothing to report on gay life as I was travelling with my better half)

[ay709394]

I was there this week. I would rather say : late 20s to early 40s

Any ripped muscular guy below mid 30 in your last visit?

[DrimVoiz]

Any ripped muscular guy below mid 30 in your last visit?

If I may answer your question, yes there is...a lot, based from the selection when I was there last March.