Mouring period ends Oct. 30

[reader]

From The Nation

 

Government spokesman Lt-General Sansern Kaewkamnerd said on Saturday that the mourning period for the passing of His Majesty the late King Bhumibol Adulyadej will end on Monday, October 30.

Sansern said the official end of the mourning period has been agreed upon by the Cabinet.

He said that people would not be required to wear colourful clothes on that day, despite rumours to that effect on social media.

 

The spokesman also denied that the government had instructed the Prachuap Khiri Khan governor to tell residents of all districts to wear yellow on Monday. No instruction on clothing has been given, the spokesman added.

 

Meanwhile, areas around the Royal Cremation Ground have returned to normal after the funeral was completed on Friday.

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30330305

[vinapu]

I wonder how was Silom / Surowing and Sukhumvit  ghettos during funeral days. Was everything closed or some bars . massages and Patpong night market still tried to do some business? 

 

Perhaps those present in BKK those day can update.

[kokopelli]

In Pattaya everything was closed after 2 pm except for some smaller shops and Family Mart.

[Alexx]

October 26th was very visibly a very special day in Bangkok. Almost everyone dressed in black, many businesses shut even including most shopping malls and all of the 7/11s from the early afternoon. The city came back to life the following day and that's when most entertainment areas reopened as well.

 

Now at the end of more than one year of mourning, I think it was a remarkable and impressive farewell, with regards to both the official ceremonies and the participation of the general public.

[hanan]

In Pattaya everything was closed after 2 pm except for some smaller shops and Family Mart.

The Family Marts were closed too on the 26th of October in Pattaya

[kokopelli]

There was a Family Mart on Pattaya Tai in vicinity of Wat Chai that was open, at least part of the day, on the 26th to accommodate the thousands of mourners who lined the streets. Not sure if any others in that area were also open?

[DivineMadman]

In case anyone is interested, the Foreign Correspondents Club will he having a talk Wednesday, November 1 about the Cremation Ceremony.  I'm a bit crushed I'll be out of town that evening.  I bet it will be a fascinating presentation.

 

http://www.fccthai.com/items/2318.html

[fedssocr]

planning to visit the crematorium next week, too bad the forecast is so rainy.

 

8000 foreigners per day will be allowed in through a separate entrance. 80K Thais via three entrances. All visitors get one hour inside. Foreigner entrance at the SE end of Sanam Luang near the Ministry of Defence. 

[vinapu]

according to The Economist's article in the last number it was no one lesser than King Chulalongkorn, grandfather of  the  King Bhumibol who declared before own death in 1910 that "over the top funerals are waste of human labour and money"

[DivineMadman]

according to The Economist's article in the last number it was no one lesser than King Chulalongkorn, grandfather of  the  King Bhumibol who declared before own death in 1910 that "over the top funerals are waste of human labour and money"

 

I noticed on Facebook some Thai gents had expressed outrage about some westerners commenting on the cost of the Cremation Ceremony.  I didn't parse it closely enough to see if it had anything to do with the Economist article.  One chap posted a graphic about how much Ronald Reagan's funeral was (needless to say many multiples of the event in Thailand).  Something to think about.  

 

 

Something else to think about, perhaps, is that you post at great length about how we should respect someone's decision on how much to tip for sex.  Maybe you should show the same respect when it comes to the Thai people marking the passing of the man who was, to many many many of them, a beloved figure.

[vinapu]

What can I say?

 

Perhaps that nobody in America is sitting in jail for making jokes about say, Barack Obama's dogs. Yes , that's something to think about. 

 

I noticed on Facebook some Thai gents had expressed outrage about some westerners commenting on the cost ceremony

can those who's agree with those westerners stand a chance of voicing it ? really?

 

My tears are reserved for those in jails rather then those lining up in the sun to be part of spectacle. 

 

Don't want to start any wars here but bringing up to  THIS thread subject of tip for sex seems to be misplaced. Big time !. 

[DivineMadman]

What can I say?

 

Perhaps that nobody in America is sitting in jail for making jokes about say, Barack Obama's dogs. Yes , that's something to think about. 

 

can those who's agree with those westerners stand a chance of voicing it ? really?

 

My tears are reserved for those in jails rather then those lining up in the sun to be part of spectacle. 

 

Don't want to start any wars here but bringing up to  THIS thread subject of tip for sex seems to be misplaced. Big time !. 

 

you can of course legitimately question else majesty laws.  But that's not what you did.  

 

In THIS thread, which was respectful, you, for whatever reason, decided to toss out the idea that the spectacle was a waste of money, as in another thread you said that you "firmly believed" that the this sort of thing was "patronizing" and "disrespectful" of the deceased.  For the life of me, I have no clue why you felt compelled to raise the comment about the ceremony, but you did.  

 

So that is why in THIS thread I pointed out that in other contexts you have no problem respecting other people's decisions with respect to their financial decisions, so maybe, just maybe, suspend the cynicism about the ceremony for a beloved monarch.

 

As this is a website that has Thai readers and many long-term Thai residents, and many other people who just care, I think it was perfectly appropriate for me to point out that -- maybe you might not have realized it --  but that comment is deeply offensive to many Thais.  Of course you can doubt the truth of that.  Or you can say, gee, boy are all those Thais wrong to feel that way, but I think your comment was unnecessary, incorrect and I think it is 100% within my rights to point out that. 

 

You are free to express your opinions but I am also free to call you out on them.  

[anddy]

if Ronald Reagans funeral was much more expensive, then that, too was a waste of human labour and money, as King Chulalongorn apparently put it. From a purely rational point of view that is true (even more so for the Reagan funeral than for the Rama 9 one, as will become clear in a second). However. funerals and accompanying ceremonies serve two main purposes:

1. provide closure for the people left behind (i.e. the Thai (or American) people

2. allow for a smooth transition to the afterlife/the heavens or whatever for the deceased under the prevailing religious beliefs (at least in Thailand, not applicable to Reagan I suppose)

 

So, from a western standpoint, the Reagan funeral was a GROSS waste, just for closure so much money? Overdone. For Rama 9, there is more to it from a religious and beliefs perspective. As westerners, we won't share those, but they are what they are, and that's to be respected. Of course, there are, well, other, more sinister aspects, but those are not to be discussed. 

[anddy]

I wonder how was Silom / Surowing and Sukhumvit  ghettos during funeral days. Was everything closed or some bars . massages and Patpong night market still tried to do some business? 

 

Perhaps those present in BKK those day can update.

Silom Complex (like most malls), most shops and restaurants etc etc around Silom were closed. Interestingly, in the evening (maybe 7pm, was already dark) on the 26th Senso was (still?) open for business as I walked past coming back from the flower offering ceremony at Lumphini Part. Again, think of it what one may, that was an impressive thing to witness. A thick, 4-lane line of about 700 metres snaking through the park, all black (except some kids in school uniforms) to wait for their turn to offer a flower and bow at the king's portrait around the time of the cremation, the relevance being to help a smooth transition to the heavens. 

[vinapu]

 

You are free to express your opinions ...

no , I'm not and you know it very well

 

.... but I am also free to call you out on them.  

that's correct but .....

 

Of course, there are, well, other, more sinister aspects, but those are not to be discussed. 

which leaves  option of just one side do the talking 

[steveboy]

2. allow for a smooth transition to the afterlife/the heavens or whatever for the deceased under the prevailing religious beliefs (at least in Thailand, not applicable to Reagan I suppose)

 

I know little about the Theravada Buddhism or other religions in Thailand, but, would their divinities provide a better afterlife to a person if more money is spend on earth to honor them on death?  This does not sound... very spiritual,  but, who am I to judge ?

[steveboy]

you can of course legitimately question else majesty laws.  But that's not what you did.  

 

In THIS thread, which was respectful, you, for whatever reason, decided to toss out the idea that the spectacle was a waste of money, as in another thread you said that you "firmly believed" that the this sort of thing was "patronizing" and "disrespectful" of the deceased.  For the life of me, I have no clue why you felt compelled to raise the comment about the ceremony, but you did.  

 

So that is why in THIS thread I pointed out that in other contexts you have no problem respecting other people's decisions with respect to their financial decisions, so maybe, just maybe, suspend the cynicism about the ceremony for a beloved monarch.

 

As this is a website that has Thai readers and many long-term Thai residents, and many other people who just care, I think it was perfectly appropriate for me to point out that -- maybe you might not have realized it --  but that comment is deeply offensive to many Thais.  Of course you can doubt the truth of that.  Or you can say, gee, boy are all those Thais wrong to feel that way, but I think your comment was unnecessary, incorrect and I think it is 100% within my rights to point out that. 

 

You are free to express your opinions but I am also free to call you out on them.  

 

You are upset because vinapu does not share your level of "respect".  But do you respect his idea of what such respect should be?

 

And would you respect my idea that we members of the human family should share some equality?  Why should the person who was the Thai King receive endless honors while other persons are thrown in a common grave on death?

[ct2005]

I know little about the Theravada Buddhism or other religions in Thailand, but, would their divinities provide a better afterlife to a person if more money is spend on earth to honor them on death?  This does not sound... very spiritual,  but, who am I to judge ?

In Buddhism, the belief is that if that person does good deeds or someone else do good deeds in the name of that person, that person will get the accumulated merits, be it alive or dead. Good deeds may include freeing animals from captivity, chanting buddha name, providing meals to the monks (who will also chant for the dead), donations to help the needy ...

A person's state of afterlife is solely dependent on his accumulated merits and not govern by any divine beings.

[witty]

Without the spectacles, ceremonies, and protocols etcetera, there would be no meaning to the monarchy or presidency. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

But on the other hand all that money could have been spent on the least fortunate hoi polloi.

[steveboy]

A person's state of afterlife is solely dependent on his accumulated merits and not govern by any divine beings.

 

Buddhism is non-theistic but not atheistic. After all, the personal books of karma (how much one earns by chanting "buddha" for example) need some intelligent accounting. The mechanism of karma needs supernatural oversight.  If you don't like to call this "divinity" you can call it something else.

[anddy]

this is not only about Buddhism. Thai Buddhism is deeply intertwined with old Brahmin and Hindu beliefs. As it happens, the very name "Rama" that Thai kings carry comes straight from there - Rama is one of the many incarnations of Vishnu, one of the three highest Hindu gods. Vishnu is the god of life and protection, hence it is the Thai kings role to protect their people. And that's what the Ramayana (or Ramakien) is about, tales of King Rama, which was staged right in front of the crematorium on the evening of the cremation. Did you also notice the many mythical animals and very Hindu-looking statues adorning the crematorium?

 

Things are very complex and complicated, and it is probably impossible for us to comprehend, and we won't be able to explain and understand the depths of all these belief systems in the context of a forum thread lol

 

I know some of this before, but some additional bits I learned from the presentation that DivineMadman thankfully referred to earlier in this thread. I went to that and wouldn't have known about it without the post. Thank you DM!

 

In case anyone is interested, the Foreign Correspondents Club will he having a talk Wednesday, November 1 about the Cremation Ceremony.  I'm a bit crushed I'll be out of town that evening.  I bet it will be a fascinating presentation.

 

http://www.fccthai.com/items/2318.html

[ct2005]

In Buddhism, the belief is that if that person does good deeds or someone else do good deeds in the name of that person, that person will get the accumulated merits, be it alive or dead. Good deeds may include freeing animals from captivity, chanting buddha name, providing meals to the monks (who will also chant for the dead), donations to help the needy ...

A person's state of afterlife is solely dependent on his accumulated merits and not govern by any divine beings.

Oops ... I forgot the most important point ... the afterlife is also & very much dependent on the person "state of enlightenment / detachment".

[DivineMadman]

this is not only about Buddhism. Thai Buddhism is deeply intertwined with old Brahmin and Hindu beliefs. As it happens, the very name "Rama" that Thai kings carry comes straight from there - Rama is one of the many incarnations of Vishnu, one of the three highest Hindu gods. Vishnu is the god of life and protection, hence it is the Thai kings role to protect their people. And that's what the Ramayana (or Ramakien) is about, tales of King Rama, which was staged right in front of the crematorium on the evening of the cremation. Did you also notice the many mythical animals and very Hindu-looking statues adorning the crematorium?

 

Things are very complex and complicated, and it is probably impossible for us to comprehend, and we won't be able to explain and understand the depths of all these belief systems in the context of a forum thread lol

 

I know some of this before, but some additional bits I learned from the presentation that DivineMadman thankfully referred to earlier in this thread. I went to that and wouldn't have known about it without the post. Thank you DM!

soooo jealous

[Nasherich]

The concept of Divine Accountancy had never occurred to me before. I suppose it's possible that credits could be added to individual souls as you go along (like a prepaid card) thus doing away with a central register

[steveboy]

The concept of Divine Accountancy had never occurred to me before. I suppose it's possible that credits could be added to individual souls as you go along (like a prepaid card) thus doing away with a central register

 

Even prepaid cars need a central registry where their intrinsic value is accounted for.  As for souls, which by definition are something supernatural, a supernatural dimension is needed if they are supposed to move from one natural body to another.