Jet Lag

[Nikom]

What is new regarding problems with jet lag? 

 

Has anyone tried using Viagra when flying east as apparently the Singaporeans do?

 

Any promising research?

 

[forky123]

Testing of Viagra (in mice) has shown the anti-jet lag effects are only observed in conjunction with light therapy. Quite light doses though (non-Erection amounts) so perhaps along with the lighting on modern aircraft you may find it works. No harm in trying though I guess if you are in the middle seat between two nuns, the 4 hour erection might be embarrassing

[santosh108]

4 hour erection doesn't sound like a "light dose", but the nuns might enjoy it!

[reader]

I'm looking at an 11- or 12-hour time difference (depending on time of year) so it doesn't get much worse. I experience less lag on my outbound trip and I suspect part of the reason is the anticipation factor.  On the return, however, it takes me 3-5 days to recover.

 

I've tried the stay hydrated, go easy on the alcohol route and I believe it helps.  But as for all the other recommendations I read about, I lack the discipline to follow strict pre-flight and post-flight routines.

 

I just listen to my body.  If it says get some sleep, that's what I do.  If it says get out there and do what you came for, I salute and go forth.

 

This BBC article discusses how long-haui pilots deal with it or--in many cases it seems--don't.

 

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160314-how-airline-pilots-beat-jet-lag

 

 

[Guest]

When flying east, I have 2 priorities.

 

1   I take something to help me sleep, for the first 3~4 nights.  Herbal Nytol has been tried in the past.  However, the real stuff seems better.    I also need to experiment with melatonin.

 

2 Once I have woken up in the morning, I like to get outside in the daylight and go for a proper walk, so my body really knows it has woken up.   If travelling on holiday, I might be getting up at 9:00 am or so for the first few days, so I'm absorbing some of the time difference with a late start, however, I definitely try to go for a walk once awake.

[vinapu]

Jet lags are killing me at either end and usually 2nd and 3rd  days are worse than 1st.

 

I don't take any chemical stuff in order to fight it , like reader above i  try to fight it by listening to my body. What helps is that I generally don't sleep long hours and even on Sunday wake up at 6-6.30.

 

What I noticed it that with age lag suffering  becomes worse and worse but there's benefit too - long haul flights become more and more bearable. 

[forky123]

I can't say I really notice it, or don't pay attention to it. I don't really sleep that well normally so nothing really changes for me.

[fedssocr]

for me the difference is also 12 hours (east coast USA).

 

On the way over I always prefer to go TPAC and arrive late night so I can pretty much just get to the hotel and go straight to bed. That seems to help me get right onto local time. I find I usually have the toughest time on the second day. 

 

On the way back home I also find that going TPAC is better for me than going TATL. I came home via Dubai last year and was completely messed up for a week. Most flights arrive back here in the early afternoon. It's a long trip but I try to go to bed when I usually would to again try to get my body clock set back to local time. I've never tried any particular drugs or other substances.

 

I'm headed to Australia next year for the first time in a while. That will be a very long trip with the routing I am taking so we'll see how my body reacts to that. Flying up front helps some but trying to sleep on a plane is always hard for me no matter which class I am in.

[ggobkk]

This topic has sent me to reflecting.

 

After many decades of flying and a couple of million air miles, I've given up and just surrender to jet lag.  Going somewhere new my adrenaline  kicks in and gets me through the first couple of days.  I usually plug in a down day if my trip will be two weeks or more. 

 

Biggest issues are when I get home (San Francisco Bay Area).  These last few years, my recovery takes as many days as the difference in time zones.  Toughest period was the first part of this year which began in Beijing, then Bangkok, back to the US with a couple of trans-continental trips, then Rome in April, home, the UK in May, home, then back to Bangkok, took July and part of August at home, then back to China.  At some point in June, my internal time clock was working like a 200 baht Rolex sold in Patpong night market!

 

Basically, I assumed from experience that jet lag hadn't killed me yet and I'd survive.  Two things in my favor, I'm retired (e.g. free to nap when I needed) and I've had the gift of falling asleep on planes.

[Alexx]

I don't take any medication. I just choose to suffer through the first day by staying awake until it's night time locally, which helps to get a decent amount of sleep at the right time. I had my worst jetlag ever when I allowed myself an afternoon nap after arriving; I couldn't sleep for several nights.

[Londoner]

The older I get the worse it becomes and its apogee is the second or third night in Thailand when I go to be sleepy, fall asleep immediately and then wake after an hour unable to continue my sleep. A distressing experience.

 

 I was advised to try valerian and I still use it, but I'm doubtful as to its efficacy. I'm diffident when it comes to sleeping tablets. Are they available over the counter in Thailand?

[vinapu]

 

 my internal time clock was working like a 200 baht Rolex sold in Patpong night market!

 

 

you are ruthless  bargainer !

Even boy I once wanted to buy such watch for and  gave him money to bargain price down with promise he can keep the change did not go that low

 

From where I live I have two time choices of getting to LOL. early afternoon departure with late evening / midddle of the night arrival or middle of the night departure with late  morning arrival.

 

I found first option quite  easier on both suffering through long flight and fighting jet lag. 

 

But still price and connecting time are deciding factor in choosing flight, hell with lag

[forky123]

My flights I try to maximise my time in LoS so I aim to arrive at the hotel as early as I can check in and leave as late as possible.

[anddy]

Going to and from Europe I find jet lag issues more or less non-existent. I always take the night flights either direction which work like this:

 

Europe to BKK: fly out something like 8 to 10 pm, so it's almost bedtime anyway. After dinner on board go to sleep right away and sleep as much as possible, which can be up to 8 hours on the 10+ hours flight. Skip breakfast on the plane in favor of maximizing sleep time. Arrive BKK around 1 pm, feeling decently fresh, even though plane sleep is certainly not top-quality sleep (despite sleeping aids listed below). But staying awake until local bedtime arrives is not an issue at all, and depending on level of fatigue go to sleep anywhere between 10 pm and midnight for a good night of quality sleep. Wake up firmly in BKK time zone, no issues at all.

 

BKK to Europe: take the night flights leaving BKK around midnight. Same procedure as above, only difference being that arrival time in Europe is VERY early in the morning, like 6 or 7 am. So even after up to almost 10 hours of sleep on this 12 hour flight, it's a long day ahead, but still manageable. Go sleep a bit early, good night's sleep. all set.

 

in-flight sleeping aids:

1. ear plugs, absolutely mandatory not only to avoid noise from other passengers or service (remember, breakfast service is being skipped, so that noise needs to be blocked out)

 

2. face mask (provided in business class, or else BYO) to avoid the light when they switch it back on for breakfast

 

3. optional: some light over-the-counter sleeping pills bought in the US. They don't really make me tired or sleepy per se, but assist in falling asleep and a more consistent sleep-through. No drowsiness whatsoever after waking, or even when waking during the night to go pee. Have only started to use these a couple of years ago, but did fine all these years before it

https://pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/533815/450.jpg

 

4. Flying up front, as fedssocr puts it. Above routine worked well enough in economy, but flying biz or 1st is certainly the icing on the cake.

 

Now, to and from the US is a different story with much longer flight ties and approximately DOUBLE the time difference. I experienced that a couple of years ago going to San Francisco from BKK, I could only attempt to apply the same strategy to the return flight, the outbound flight unfortunately was at the ungodly hour of 7 am BKK time arriving in SFO at 10 am, so difficult to put in sleep at any sort of "natural" time. Going back was fine, leaving SFO 6 pm, arriving BKK 6 am 

[forrestreid]

I tend to suffer from this lot. Mainly, I think, because I'm poor at sleeping on flights. I fly from Europe to Thailand and usually get flights that leave Europe late in evening arrive that Thailand in the late afternoon. When I arrive I feel really wrecked because my body thinks it's early in the morning European time after having very little sleep the night before. What I find is best for a quick adjustment, although it's not that easy, is to try and avoid having much if any naps during the daytime Thailand time. It is hard for you to do this as your natural rhythm, if you have come from Europe, make you think it's bedtime around 5 or 6 PM Thailand.

 

But if you don't avoid daytime napping, my own personal case,I would find it very difficult to sleep at Thai night time, and it would end up being a week by the time I adjust.

 

Your strategy should also be based on the amount of time you will be staying. If you are only staying five days or less I think It is hardly worthwhile make a huge effort to get in synch with Thai time. In that case I would probably have middays naps to make sure I have enough energy to enjoy my time in the country, as the strategy I describe above, while it does get rid of jetlag quickly, does mean you have two were three days at start when you are like a zombie half the day.

 

For some reason you often find articles about jetlag in the newspapers suggesting you take naps to help you deal with it, but I think most people who know what they are talking about tend to agree with my suggestion. This is all with the caveat that there is a subset of people who can nap without it really affecting their night-time sleeping - they just get a burst of energy from it - and if you are part of that subset nap away, but for most people I think my advice holds.

[Guest]

Flying east is much more difficult.    There is a 7 hour time difference in the winter when I go & it's difficult to get to sleep 7 hours earlier.   I suppose the 6 hour time difference in the summer is easier.

 

I've tried the natural herbal tablets, but these do not seem to be particularly effective.  

Next time I will try either the "proper" Nytol or some melatonin, which is what the body is supposed to produce anyway. 

 

I believe melatonin is available over the counter in the US, but is by prescription only in Europe.   Has anyone had success buying melatonin in Bangkok ?

 

Getting up a couple of hours later softens the initial adjustment from 7 to 5 hours.    However, the 9 hours for flying to Japan is worse.  

 

Flying home to the UK is much easier.   I leave Bangkok at about 13:00.   By the time I get from the airport to my house it's already after 21:00 UK time & if I force myself to stay up to 23:00, it's easy to sleep until ~6:00 am with the herbal sleeping tablets.

[reader]

Although they may not have any answers that will help jet lag sufferers in the near term, the just announced recipients of the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine are being honored for their discoveries related to the mechanisms that affect jet lag and other conditions.

 

Excerpts from Washington Post

 

Three Americans — Jeffrey C. Hall, Michael Rosbash and Michael W. Young — have won the 2017 Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine for their discoveries about the mechanisms that control an organism's circadian responses to light and dark.

 

In announcing the winner in Stockholm on Monday, the prize committee said the scientists elucidated how a life-form's “inner clock” can fluctuate to optimize our behavior and physiology. “Their discoveries explain how plants, animals and humans adapt their biological rhythm so that it is synchronized with the Earth's revolutions.”

 

Working with fruit flies, the scientists isolated a gene that is responsible for a protein that accumulates in the night but is degraded in the day. Misalignments in this clock may play a role in medical conditions and disorders, as well as the temporary disorientation of jet lag that travelers experience when crisscrossing time zones.

 

“The circadian system has its tentacles around everything,” Rosbash, a Howard Hughes Medical Institute investigator, explained in the HHMI Bulletin in 2014. “It’s ticking away in almost every tissue in the human body.” It's also in plants, including major food crops, the article noted, and appears to be tied to “disease susceptibility, growth rate, and fruit size.”

 

Erin O’Shea, president of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, said that people have observed for centuries that plants and animals change their behavior in sync with the light present in the natural environment. What Hall, Rosebush and Young figured out is how this happens.

 

“Genes make up the mechanics by which organisms can keep track of time and this allows them — just like your wristwatch — to coordinate their behavior their sleep-wake cycle with the changes in the light-dark cycle,” she said.

 

Working with fruit flies, the scientists isolated a gene that is responsible for a protein that accumulates in the night but is degraded in the day. Misalignments in this clock may play a role in medical conditions and disorders, as well as the temporary disorientation of jet lag that travelers experience when crisscrossing time zones.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/10/02/nobel-prize-in-medicine-or-physiology-awarded-to-tktk

 

[anddy]

I believe melatonin is available over the counter in the US, but is by prescription only in Europe.   Has anyone had success buying melatonin in Bangkok ?

 

[...]

 

Flying home to the UK is much easier.   I leave Bangkok at about 13:00.   By the time I get from the airport to my house it's already after 21:00 UK time & if I force myself to stay up to 23:00, it's easy to sleep until ~6:00 am with the herbal sleeping tablets.

 

I have just recently seen Melatonin being sold over the counter in a drugstore in Germany. One of those drugstores similar to the US, where they sell everything from toiletries like toothpaste and shampoos to detergents and other household items to baby diapers to food & pet food etc etc etc. AND herbal medicines and supplements like vitamin pills. They had melatonin bottles on the shelf with all the zinc and magnesium and what have you. Haven't seen (nor looked for) in BKK.

 

So on the return flight you take a day flight, which is a different strategy to my night flight one. Sounds like it should work well, only I like to NOT to have to kill 12 hours on a plane.... I rather sleep those long hours away

[santosh108]

This is a great topic with some great suggestions.  Since we all have different bodies and react to the same things differently, it is nice to have so many alternatives to try until we find the one that is best for us.  As for myself, long flights are more and more a drag on my body and mind also as I try gracefully to advance in years. Coming from the east coast of the US involves 20+ hours of flight time to arrive in BKK.  

 

I have tried many different remedies to alleviate the jet lag so I can be back to "normal" quickly.  The best for me has been a homeopathic remedy called "No-Jet-Lag".   You take the first tablet 2 hours before departure and than another tablet every two hours until arrival and the last one 2 hours after arrival.  If you sleep, just take one when you awake and continue with the 2 hour routine from there.  Of course, little or no alcohol, modest amounts of food during the flight and staying well hydrated with water will increase the benefits.

 

Upon arrival I have found that my mind is more clear - not so jumbled and disoriented.  And my sleep pattern is still upset, but much less so than if I do not use this.  Also bowel movements are still a bit confused for a couple of days. But these annoyances seem to also dissipate more quickly 

 

I have tried melatonin and also Sleepytime and other herbal tea remedies during the flight, but they always give me a nasty head ache when I wake up.  As I do not sleep well on flights (unless I get a really good deal on a fully reclining seat!} I have found that a simple acetaminophen PM (diphenhydramine HCl) works very well.  

 

Hope this info is useful for someone.  We all want to be ready for action as soon as possible!!!

[Guest]

So on the return flight you take a day flight, which is a different strategy to my night flight one. Sounds like it should work well, only I like to NOT to have to kill 12 hours on a plane.... I rather sleep those long hours away

Now there is an idea.....

On the outbound flight from Europe to Asia, I always try to take an evening flight, so I can sleep. For holidays or business.  This is a no-brainer.   Plenty of time to pack before departing & I still arrive in time to change some cash, freshen up, eat & visit the gogo bars in Bangkok.

 

On the homebound trip, I've never really looked at an overnight flight, as I like EVA & they don't have an evening departure.

 

But, as you prompted me to investigate: 

The Thai overnight flight leaves Bangkok at 00:15 & gets to London at 06:20 AM.

By my analysis, I lose a night in Thailand, since I'm not going to get off the 6:20 am flight, get home, freshen up & go straight to work the same day.      I would therefore be leaving ~12 hours earlier than on my existing flight.     Departing Pattaya at 8 or 9:00pm for the 0:15 flight means I miss the action on that last night. 

 

So whilst I'm working and need to make maximum use of my holiday allowance, I think it will still be the daytime return flight.   Once I cease working, squeezing every last day out of the trip should be less important, so perhaps I could fly overnight in both directions.

[rollingstone]

I can't say I really notice it, or don't pay attention to it. I don't really sleep that well normally so nothing really changes for me.

Same here.

 

When I go to Europe (3 to 4 times a year), I have problems sleeping long enough hours during nights. When back home (I live in SE Asia), I often wake up during wee hours. Really struggle / feeling drowsy in a couple of hours after lunch. Plan to get checked up whether I have a sleep problem one of these days.

[reader]

NOTE -- Although the following article doesn't directly reference jet lag, it explains why many of us experience sleep problems.

 

From Weekend Wall Street Journal

 

As we age, bodily changes degrade the quantity and quality of our sleep—which affects our health more than we realize.

 

By Dr. Matthew Walker, director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley

 

As you may painfully know: Sleep gets more difficult the older you get. Older adults are less able, on average, to obtain as much sleep, or as restorative a sleep, as young adults. The problem gets so bad that by our 80s, the lack of sleep can have major health ramifications, though we don’t always notice.

 

Older adults face a number of challenges. The first is a reduction in the quantity and quality of deep sleep—the stage that beneficially overhauls your cardiovascular, immune and metabolic systems and refreshes learning and memory abilities. As you enter your 30s and 40s, your deep-sleep brain waves become smaller, less powerful and fewer in number. Reductions in deep-sleep quality increase your risk of heart attacks, obesity and stroke, as well as the buildup of a toxic brain protein—called beta amyloid—that is linked​to Alzheimer’s disease.

 

Passing into your mid- to late-40s, age will have stripped you of 60% to 70% of the deep sleep you were enjoying as a teen. By the time you reach age 70, you will have lost 80% to 90% of your youthful, restorative deep sleep.

 

The second hallmark of altered sleep as we age is fragmentation. The older we get, the more frequently we wake up throughout the night. Causes include body pain and a weakened bladder. Reducing fluid intake in the evening can help the latter, but it isn’t a cure-all.

 

Because of sleep fragmentation, older people will suffer a reduction in sleep efficiency, defined as the percent of time you were asleep while in bed.

 

Most sleep doctors consider good-quality sleep to involve a sleep efficiency of 90% or above. By the time we reach our 80s, sleep efficiency has often dropped below 80%. That means that, within an eight-hour period in bed, you will spend upward of 1½ hours awake.

 

Inefficient sleep is no small thing. The lower an older individual’s sleep-efficiency score, the higher their mortality risk, the worse their physical health and the lower their cognitive function, typified by forgetfulness.

 

The third sleep change with advanced age is that of circadian timing—the body’s internal clock that times our sleep-wake rhythms. Seniors commonly experience a regression in circadian timing, leading to earlier bedtimes. The cause is an early release and peak of melatonin in older adults in the evening, instructing an earlier start time for sleep, in part because of an early drop in core body temperature.

 

Changes in circadian timing with advancing age may appear harmless, but they can be the cause of numerous sleeping (and waking) problems in the elderly. Older adults often want to stay awake later into the evening but find themselves inadvertently falling asleep. Accidental evening snoozes release otherwise healthy sleep pressure that builds in the daytime. Irrespective of how old you are, those unplanned naps will make it harder to sleep at night.

 

A compounding problem arrives in the morning. In many elderly individuals, their circadian rhythm will start to rise around 4 or 5 a.m., even if they had trouble falling asleep the night before. A self-perpetuating cycle ensues wherein many seniors are battling a sleep debt.

 

Some methods can help push the circadian rhythm in older adults somewhat later, and strengthen the rhythm. Exposure to nighttime light suppresses the normal rise in melatonin, a sleep-delaying effect that can be put to good use in seniors.

 

Older adults may also wish to consult with their doctor about taking melatonin in the evening. Prescription melatonin can help boost the otherwise blunted circadian and associated melatonin rhythm in the elderly, improving sleep regularity and thus quality.

 

Many seniors progress through their later years not realizing how much their sleep has degraded. This means that elderly individuals fail to connect their deterioration in health with their deterioration in sleep. Not all medical problems of aging are attributable to poor sleep. But far more of our physical and mental health ailments are related to sleep impairment than either we, or many doctors, truly realize or treat seriously.

 

 

 

[steveboy]

From jet lag to quality of sleep?

One thing that helps quality of sleep is to have a clean conscience.

[vinapu]

 

One thing that helps quality of sleep is to have a clean conscience.

specially if enforced with shot or two of gin

[CurtisD]

Everyone is different, so there is a bit of experimenting to see what works for you.

 

What helps me to adjust fastest is:

 

- Melatonin. It only works for about 30% of people, but if like me it works for you, it makes adjustment much faster. I take one on the plane when I want to sleep and for the first 2-3 nights that I am in the new time zone.

- Minimal alcohol and food in flight. A lot of water.

- Sleep as much as you can in flight. Then you start rested and jet-lagged rather than sleep deprived and jet lagged. Your body has a few more reserves to work with.

- No alcohol within 3 hours of bedtime. A bit of a downer, but while alcohol might get you to sleep initially, then you wake up far too early. Alcohol interferes with sleep patterns.

- Spend the first day outside in the sun.  The sun resets the body clock.