Somewhat dry rainy season - Thailand trip of Sept 2017

[vinapu]

Your play-by-play reports of this trip appear to reflect a more adventurous vinapu who has evolved from an old Thailand hand who primarily pursued good value at predictable venues to one who arrived with an agenda to do things with fewer rules and more open to new experiences.

 

Your pursuits were a joy to read because of their unpredictably. Who could have expected the same guy who traditionally made Bangkok his primary base of operations would suddenly decide that in Pattaya he was having more fun, twice extending his stay there. I also sense that it wasn't simply a price-to-book calculation that most influenced you.  Never a cheap Charlie, you were this trip quicker to acquiese to the asking price of the most sought-after specimens and didn't look back. However, crossing the 4,000 baht rubicon put you in new territory where few here have ventured so all the more compelling were your descriptions of those experiences.

 

 

. Yours, however, are unique in the sense that you often pursue otherwise straight men. Doesn't mean you don't enjoy the occasional twink but you're definitely comfortable with guys who'll will be going home to wives or girlfriends. 

 

 

 

It seemes that you also turned a page with just a single visit (if I recall right) to Soi Six, previously one of your regular stomping grounds. I'm not (and know you're not) putting down the trio of bars there but you've been there, done that and spread a wider net this time around.

 

A few random comments:

 

 

Watching the world go by -- I thoroughly enjoy, as do you, passing time with a beer on Soi Four or Soi Twwilight, watching the work-bound guys (they're the ones carrying their meal), tourists and waiters interact.  Love it.

 

 

All in all, you've set a high bar for the rest of us.

 

thank you reader, I read your assessment with great pleasure , not that I need boost to my self-esteem but never hurts to be a bit overestimated.

 

I don't think I arrived with any agenda other than having fun, other than booking accommodation I plan very little before a trip. I like things just happen.

I liked my time in Pattaya in December so decided to stay longer and extension was owed to fun I had there. I may try such approach in the future. I was hoping Bank will be working at BBB but his bar friends picked up the slack nicely. 

 

You are correct with 4000 tips going to sought after boys, in fact careful readers of my previous reports  will find them mentioned and in 2 cases offed previously so I did know very well what I'm up to.

 

I'm nobody to comment other's tipping practices but only boys themselves  can assess us when comes to generosity but definitely there are those who are willing to go home empty handed instead to accept any compensation. Longer in business they are and unfortunately to my pocket those are boys I'm chasing, better they become in assessing what they can and can't pull from their clients.

 

As for straight boys my well published theory is they know they need to try better to compensate for  lack of lust but at end of day I have serious doubts about how straight they really are, often hard before I even touch them.

 

No , soi 6 other than Tawan was never really my hunting ground but had 2 offs from Super A before. This trip surprisingly quite a few boys there were offing material for me. 

 

I like  to watch world go by at soi Twilight but no so much soi 4 as I generally don't like to waste time sitting in bars  and soi twilight for me is more business oriented. Now with Jupiter I may look at soi 4 more kindly.

 

I was not trying to set any bar for anybody, just to let world know how one guy is spending his vacation / and a money / in Thailand. We all know better how we like our vacation but at times some inspiration may help. If I helped somebody to get some ideas for their next trip , all the better.

 

If not this forum I 'd never put my foot on Tawan and  Pattaya nor stay in Raya and Nantra Silom so I owe you guys something.

[Boy69]

Boy69, where do you get your statistics that MOST clients rip off and hurt their boys ? There is always a bad apple on both sides, but I’m willing to bet the percentage is on the lower side.

It's a print mistake instead of the word 'some' I put 'most'.

 

You are correct there are some misbehave clients but most of them are fine,I noticed that the bad clients or the cheap Charlie ones are marked by the boys the rummers spread fast by them and they will not go with them or will quote outrageous rates in purpose to avoid the unwanted clients.

[anddy]

as always, very enjoyable to sort of re-live your fun times through your reports Pity only it didn't work out to meet this time given our very brief overlap of only 2 days in BKK. Next time again for sure!

 

 

[...] I have serious doubts about how straight they really are, often hard before I even touch them.

 

If not this forum I 'd never put my foot on Tawan [...] so I owe you guys something.

1. that may also owe something to the magic of a certain blue (or green) pill....

 

2. that comes as a bit of a surprise given your taste.. you'd sure have discovered Tawan on your own too, very easy by just browsing the bar listings in travelgayasia for example. But here is kind of an information exchange, that's true

[Alexx]

Very nice reports again, vinapu, it was a great pleasure to read about your latest adventures. You definitely made excellent use of your time and didn't waste any.

[reader]

I'm nobody to comment other's tipping practices but only boys themselves  can assess us when comes to generosity but definitely there are those who are willing to go home empty handed instead to accept any compensation. Longer in business they are and unfortunately to my pocket those are boys I'm chasing, better they become in assessing what they can and can't pull from their clients.

 

As for straight boys my well published theory is they know they need to try better to compensate for  lack of lust but at end of day I have serious doubts about how straight they really are, often hard before I even touch them.

 

 

I think now that the hottest straight guys have got a good taste for what Chinese are willing to pony up to secure their fantasy, they have nothing to lose in pushing the envelope. It's a time-honored business practice: meet increasing demand with higher prices.

 

It was three years ago when I was approached by a strikingly cute tout trying to get me into a bar. I heard none of his spiel and interrupted him reflexively with, "you're a cute guy...want to come to my hotel?" He considered the offer for a few seconds and countered with, "I go to your hotel 4,000 baht."  It wasn't a question.  It was the first time I had ever heard a number that high proffered by anyone. And his look was calculating without a hint of a smile. "You're not that cute" was the best reply I could muster and moved on. Time has passed  and I've never seen the guy around since, but I can still pull from memory that incredibly cute face.  Don't know what the hell I'll do if I do find him again.  But I do know this: if I'd been approached by the same boy in NYC or Boise and asked for $120, I wouldn't have hesitated a moment. Perspective--and geography--is a great equalizer.

 

Since I also harbor a strong attraction to straights, I agree that the best signal of how the session will proceed is a hard cock on first contact.  Sure, he may turn out to be a grower; quite a few do.  But nothing promises delight more than touching a rock.

 

Thanks again for your tour-de-force!

[forrestreid]

I just want to add my voice to those are being praising Vinapu for his trip reports. For the last two weeks or so I have enjoyed reading the next instalment every evening. I must admit I like to see somebody who gets out and about on their holiday as well as visiting the bars. He has an enjoyable written style as well and the fact that he enjoyed his time with the boys really comes across.

 

A several times I have planned to write trip reports after my journeys but have usually not got around to it after a few short pieces about a few bars etc. Reading the accounts off Vinapu inspires me to want to repay the debt by hopefully doing a better report after my next trip.

 

Thanks very much Vinapu for two weeks of reading pleasure!

[vinapu]

as always, very enjoyable to sort of re-live your fun times through your reports Pity only it didn't work out to meet this time given our very brief overlap of only 2 days in BKK. Next time again for sure!

 

 

1. that may also owe something to the magic of a certain blue (or green) pill....

 

2. that comes as a bit of a surprise given your taste.. you'd sure have discovered Tawan on your own too, very easy by just browsing the bar listings in travelgayasia for example. But here is kind of an information exchange, that's true

I also regret we did not meet due to un-coordinated timing, it was more of that , one of our members left Pattaya on the day I arrived there, another one arrived in Thailand in the evening before my morning departure next day

 

1.  you may be correct  but apparently blue pill still works only if one feels  a little bit heat, no?

 

2. I knew about Tawan from my first trip on. After all , Tomahwak, then bar across the soi was one of firsts I visited in BKK but  wherever I got my feedback from then , it was less than favorable so I did not ventured inside Tawan  and it was the same trip after trip , massage places , mainly Aqua Spa and Arena were my hunting grounds and whatever my feeds were from  it was always about Tawan boys being lazy, greedy and the like.

 

Only when I discovered this forum I read here some credible  accolades, reinforced by reading bangkokbois  blog by the late Rush. 

 

So finally on trip # 9 I dragged Dreamboys boy with me  to see the show and only at end of my next trip , it was 10th , on the last night  I braved to off boy  Boy #15 and become fan of Tawan instantly. By trip #13 I was on monodiet, all LT offs on that trip bar just one were all Tawan men.  That's the story of love coming late in life, LOL 

 

But there some contractions, perhaps due to too much of good thing for both boys and me , in Dec 2016 despite of being in Thailand twice I went there only once. Now with cooler  head I enjoy bar again and while spoiling boys with compensation they repay me with very well pretended affection , truly win-win situation for now with rosy glasses discarded.

[vinapu]

 You definitely made excellent use of your time and didn't waste any.

I did, three times I woke up in the morning without boy beside, shame on me.

[vinapu]

 

... interrupted him reflexively with, "you're a cute guy...want to come to my hotel?" He considered the offer for a few seconds and countered with, "I go to your hotel 4,000 baht."  It wasn't a question.  It was the first time I had ever heard a number that high proffered by anyone. And his look was calculating without a hint of a smile. "You're not that cute" was the best reply I could muster and moved on. ......

 

......  But I do know this: if I'd been approached by the same boy in NYC or Boise and asked for $120, I wouldn't have hesitated a moment.  equalizer.

 

that the lesson I learned over years, one has always choice and must live with consequences.

 

Earlier I was cautious to economize and keen to stick to so called 'fair rates'. Than after few experiences like yours - boy I liked disappeared from the scene depriving me forever a chance to embrace him now I rather employ " boy first, money second" approach. Doesn't always work as I wish but by grace of God worked perfectly this trip. 

 

If I chickened out and passed offing Tam,  #60 from Boy66  I know I'd be spitting at myself in the mirror every morning when I shave. 

 

When I travel I use the same approach in respect of tours and souvenirs, If I want go somewhere I pay , if I see something I like I may bargain but I will buy it. Some genius invented line of credit, why not to use it, LOL

[vinapu]

I just want to add my voice to those are being praising Vinapu for his trip reports.

 

..... Reading the accounts off Vinapu inspires me to want to repay the debt by hopefully doing a better report after my next trip.

 

 

You guys are spoiling me.

 

I wouldn't mind some critical voices / too long , to brief , too detailed, not detailed enough, lacking pictures and NO GRAPHICS, what the hell you guys were doing there and so on / 

 

We hope you will keep you word but I need to warn you. It's quite time consuming , particularly if you are typing with 1 or 2 fingers only like me.

[Boy69]

that the lesson I learned over years, one has always choice and must live with consequences.

 

Earlier I was cautious to economize and keen to stick to so called 'fair rates'. Than after few experiences like yours - boy I liked disappeared from the scene depriving me forever a chance to embrace him now I rather employ " boy first, money second" approach. Doesn't always work as I wish but by grace of God worked perfectly this trip.

 

If I chickened out and passed offing Tam, #60 from Boy66 I know I'd be spitting at myself in the mirror every morning when I shave.

 

When I travel I use the same approach in respect of tours and souvenirs, If I want go somewhere I pay , if I see something I like I may bargain but I will buy it. Some genius invented line of credit, why not to use it, LOL

I don't agree with this approach ,We are traveling with our hard earning money and limited budget I have fixed rates for every service I want and if it's above what I am willing to pay I move on with no regrets,If the service was beyond my expection I usually give generous tip .If I won the lottery or unexpected inheritance will on me I guess I would adopt Vinapu approach...

[vinapu]

I don't agree with this approach ,We are traveling with our hard earning money and limited budget I have fixed rates for every service I want and if it's above what I am willing to pay I move on with no regrets,If the service was beyond my expection I usually give generous tip .If I won the lottery or unexpected inheritance will on me I guess I would adopt Vinapu approach...

We all are using what suits us the best.

Not necessary what one does somebody else follows and there's no right or wrong. Sometimes even person changes his approach  how to extract more fun .

 

There are those who visit bar or massage place only once every trip  ( my trips 1.2.3.5.6.7.8.)and those who park themselves in their favorite places and get all their fun from there  ( my trip 13 ).

 

Budgetary discipline you are talking about is only to be commended and admired as there's only that much money we can spent. 

 

But like with every  discipline it's only step from mental terror we may inflict on ourselves. No favorite meal today because they raised price from 190 to 205 and 200 is my budget, no museum visited today because on Tuesday they have 50 % off admission ( and related hordes of economizing visitors ), getting almost heart attack being close to missing flight because we opted to bus instead taxi etc.

 

Good that you don't regret and move on. I learned my lessons that it not always pays. In my younger years I did not visit Uffizzi Gallery in Florence because admission was to steep for me , it took 20 years for another chance  to be in Florence again , just for a day and  horror of horrors, due to technical issues Gallery was closed that day. so wound is still bleeding.

 

On Easter Island I saw sculpture in wood , true piece of art but at 400 $ it seemed excessively priced   so I passed by opting for 10 times cheaper crude one. When came to my senses and returned next day shop lady waved me away , it was sold apparently  soon after I left , I still hate myself for that. 

 

I did  not win lottery and did not squander my inheritance, I just found the way of financing certain indulgences  by cutting on other ones.

 

There are readers who may consider tips I pay excessive but they readily discuss advantages of staying in Crowne Plaza over Dusit Thani ,  seek  feedback on the best restaurants or roof top beer bars and consider taking bus to Pattaya or train to Swampy waste of time.

 

And why not , if that is what rocks their boat as much as  mine is rocked by taking 5 baht train from DMK to Bangkok or managing to get to Foodland Patpong before 9 a.m. to get an advantage of having breakfast for 62 instead of 85 baht.

 

And at end of day as my trip reported above attests there are always cheaper boys, hey only four 4000 LT's as opposite to five  2000 ones  

[Boy69]

I understand your point of view but I think that boys fees as every service in Thailand should be in proportion to the standard living costs in Thailand : 300 to 500 BHT bar fine , 100 to 250 BHT for drinks, 1000-1500 BHT for ST and 1500-2500 BHT for LT are fixed price for me and in principal I will not pay more than that because it seems to me a ripp off , I had many stunning boys and great fun at the bars without compromising on what I am willing to pay and never felt that received poor service by the boys because I bargain the rates to what I was willing to pay and usually' take it or leave it' approach paid off for me most of the times , sometimes the boys are not willing to compromise that's fine with me I just move on with no regrets at all.I am not accepting the point of view that if I would pay what the boy wants he will be happy and I will be happy too because he gave me better service in the contrary If I pay outrageous rates maybe the boy will be happy but I will certainly not be happy with that !

[santosh108]

vinapu - Boy69 = opposite ends of the scale.  May both be very happy (most of the time). What else can we ask!

[biguyby]

Just as general observation since you left Thailand we've had a:

 

"Somewhat wet rainy season" lol

[paulsf]

I’ll side with Vinapu. If I’m flying 10,000 miles, I’m not going to sit with a calculator deciding what’s a good deal or not.

You say your not going to pay outrageous prices. How do you determine what is outrageous? I hardly find 4000 outrageous. I know many forum members. There are some that every penny counts. But there are many that costs aren’t an issue. We all have guidelines, but they shouldn’t be hard and fast if your in Thailand to have a good time.

[reader]

On my first visit 15 years ago,1,000 baht was the ST fee expected by guys working out of Balcony. Kind of puts things in perspective.

[vinapu]

All that pricing controversy steaming from report could be avoided simply by me omitting financial details but I did it for purpose as nothing enlivens threads like money matters, particularly somebody else's money.

 

Funny thing for me is that in two weeks there I did not spent as much energy on finances  like in following two weeks of daily reporting that  trip   

 

So here's another round ( my underlines and numbering for easier read ) :

 

1. I understand your point of view but I think that boys fees as every service in Thailand should be in proportion to the standard living costs in Thailand : 300 to 500 BHT bar fine , 100 to 250 BHT for drinks, 1000-1500 BHT for ST and 1500-2500 BHT for LT are fixed price for me and in principal I will not pay more than that because it seems to me a rip off

2.  I had many stunning boys and great fun at the bars without compromising on what I am willing to pay and never felt that received poor service by the boys because I bargain the rates to what I was willing to pay and usually' take it or leave it' approach paid off for me most of the times ,

 3. sometimes the boys are not willing to compromise that's fine with me I just move on with no regrets at all.I am not accepting the point of view that if I would pay what the boy wants he will be happy and I will be happy too because he gave me better service in the contrary If I pay outrageous rates maybe the boy will be happy but

4.I will certainly not be happy with that !

1.as said before , I'm not arguing , just presenting my way of thinking about financing vacation fun

 

2. as for stunning boys is enough to comb through few pages of comments on our model thread to learn that stunner to one  is Humpback from Notre Dame to somebody else.

 

When you compare  fees you paid with ones I did,  are you sure we are talking about the same boys ? It takes all 18 years and a day for security for twink to be pretending stunner  while several more years of exercising, dieting and who know what other sacrifices  are  necessary to  get model look and perhaps even more to built  body shape to be stunner for those who like bodybuilders or muscled man.

 

And in those years girlfriend get pregnant and boys are out of business taken by family life so rarer they become if one is looking for more mature and mentally balanced men. They may become less attractive  for some  but rarer species for those who look for them thus commanding better rate. In short , I think all of Super A boys will go for 1000 ST while very few if any of Jupiter or Tawan ones will.

 

3. For me on vacation fun is more precious than standing by my budget plan and if I find boy attractive I like to taste him leaving saving money for after vacation life

 

4. that's the whole point , you are not happy , don't do  / pay / it. , bargain down , or walk away in easy search of  another fish 

 

 

vinapu - Boy69 = opposite ends of the scale.  May both be very happy (most of the time). What else can we ask!

I'm happy, would never cross my mind to be jealous on learning that boy who skinned me alive for 3000-4000  landed next night in somebody else's embraces for  1200

 

 

Just as general observation since you left Thailand we've had a:

"Somewhat wet rainy season" lol

I knew before I even left Thailand that with only 4 substantial rains in 2 weeks I was very lucky 

 

 

You say your not going to pay outrageous prices. How do you determine what is outrageous? I hardly find 4000 outrageous.

even if  4000 is outrageous I  still gladly paid and I'm forever grateful to those 4 boys who extracted it from me  and provided outstanding time in exchange. My money ,my pleasure, boy's joy.

 

 

On my first visit 15 years ago,1,000 baht was the ST fee expected by guys working out of Balcony. Kind of puts things in perspective.

in 2001 I paid  LT tip in BKK, this was upper end of 1500-2000 scale then

[Alexx]

Cost of living has been going up a lot in Thailand in the recent past, and "unfortunately" many cuties now have several options for relatively well-paid jobs. So it's hardly surprising that there's a tendency for ST and LT rates that are being demanded to increase as well.

 

Boy69, with the rates you've quoted, you might still get lucky nowadays, but gradually you'll get priced out of the market (well, except for the desperate drug addicts peddling their wares, they will probably still be available for 1000 baht for years to come).

[Boy69]

Maybe becuse I am relatively young and my taste is twink boys 18-22 yo I don't face much difficulties to find many stunning boys sometimes for free via the apps, shopping malls,beaches or other places.

I rarely off boy this days from bars and I hate doing massage not on my room so I really dont have to pay the outrageous rates

going nowadays at the bars.

[Boy69]

Maybe becuse I am relatively young and my taste is twink boys 18-22 yo I don't face much difficulties to find many stunning boys sometimes for free via the apps, shopping malls,beaches or other places.

I rarely off boy this days from bars and I hate doing massage not on my room so I really don't have to pay the outrageous rates

going nowadays at the bars.

[reader]

Cost of living has been going up a lot in Thailand in the recent past, and "unfortunately" many cuties now have several options for relatively well-paid jobs. So it's hardly surprising that there's a tendency for ST and LT rates that are being demanded to increase as well.

 

Boy69, with the rates you've quoted, you might still get lucky nowadays, but gradually you'll get priced out of the market (well, except for the desperate drug addicts peddling their wares, they will probably still be available for 1000 baht for years to come).

 

Using an on-line inflation calculator, found that inflation has gone up about 41% in BKK over the past 15 years. Based solely on this measure,  a 1,000 ST in 2002 would register 1,410 today.  A LT 2,000 becomes 2,820.

 

Not too far off from you might expect, on average, in real-world Bangkok today, although it's understood premium rates apply to places where you find the premium or specialized guys.

 

As many have reported, you won't have trouble finding lower rates in typical Pattaya venues but a handful of places come in closer to Bangkok rates.

 

What no calculator can measure are factors such as personal chemistry and desire--the very stuff that can skew an "average" fee in a heartbeat.

 

None of this is out of the ordinary.  The work these guys have chosen to do is the road less traveled for most young Asian males.  And it's not unusual that the top talent--like the best athletes--demand more for their service than journeymen.  While vinapu's account of high-end offs may initially draw shock and awe, they're actually a rational reflection of what's happening on the ground. And they serve the crucial function of helping to sustain the industry.

[vinapu]

Using an on-line inflation calculator, found that inflation has gone up about 41% in BKK over the past 15 years. Based solely on this measure,  a 1,000 ST in 2002 would register 1,410 today.  A LT 2,000 becomes 2,820.

 

  While vinapu's account of high-end offs may initially draw shock and awe......... serve the crucial function of helping to sustain the industry.

Finally , after all that slander about me spoiling boys and market for others  you voiced an appreciation of my contribution to the common good,  LOL and thank YOU !

 

Pattaya was always cheaper than BKK but it looks that is chasing it and catching up. With 800 off fee for the show boys BBB is most expensive in whole country even leaving Dreamboys in the dust /with their 650 or as somebody recently reported 700/.

fact is that regular off fee is still 500 at BBB and boy drink at 450 while shocking for Pattaya   fits somewhat with 400-500 of Bangkok ones.

 

But wait - which bar is pulling greatest  crowds ? Not  Sunee bars  their 100 baht drinks but BBB   with 280. This seems to support theory that winning bar is one where is fun to be and price is just secondary.

 

To cheer price conscious crowd there's no shortage of bars with cheap drinks and nice boys /Nice Boys itself among others/ and is still easy land 1000 ST, 1500 LT if one knows where to look for it and it;s not prone to be star struck.

 

One of my nicest surprises last trip was selection at Super A, not my types but still quite a few  very acceptable.

 

To chip into inflation debate in my opinion tips are  not even keeping with food price inflation, in 1000/2000 days street meal was available everywhere for 30 baht , now it's 50-60.

 

But there's one unheralded Thai advantage - dental care costs are only fraction of what uninsured will pay at home in most Western countries and prescription drug I pay 40 $ at home I bought for 11 $ without prescription in the airport pharmacy. 

[spoon]

Price is really not as literal as the off fee and tips. As we are purchasing services, with reputations and repeat business at hand, those initial payment may add up to a lot more than just that. It might not matter much for those who comes as a tourist and want to splurge and have no regrets, which is exactly what vinapu is doing, but for those retirees, expat and freelancer who live in thailand, they have a totally valid concern over what they are willing to pay.

 

For me, at home, those mb who charges me less, but great services that warrants a repeat, those repeat encounters happens much more often than those who charge less, with a few exception of course. So those who charges me 2k bath for example, will probably see me utilizing his services twice a month, vs those who charge me 3k, probably once a monh or once in 2 month. But these doesnt apply when im travelling, ill make sure i get what i want when i see it, and likewise, i am also very choosy when im travelling vs when im at home.

[santosh108]

This month, the Nobel prize in Economics went to Richard Thaler of the University of Chicago (my old alma mater). He has "incorporated psychologically realistic assumptions into analyses of economic decision-making. By exploring the consequences of limited rationality, social preferences, and lack of self-control, he has shown how these human traits systematically affect individual decisions as well as market outcomes."

 

So now we can easily see that it is perfectly clear why each of us has somewhat differing views on the cost/benefit ratio for offing boys.  Let us all be aware of our limited rationality, social preferences, and lack of self-control  which systematically affect our individual decisions as well as the market outcome.