Newbies advice- bar etiquette and more

[Guest]

 

We are not in control of our possessions while in the shower and also when we are massaged face down.

My valuables go with me to the shower. Ideally, I would be smart enough to always pack a plastic bag. In practice I forget. So I have even showered with the shower door open in a non-gay massage place to allow valuables to be kept dry but in sight.

 

In the massage room, they are placed at the end of the room where my head is -under the table or wherever.

[ggobkk]

Thanks, Vinapu, for generating this thread from its bolt hole in a Cupidol thread.  

 

When I decided to return to Bangkok after a two decade absence, I attempted to catch up and be "current".  This site and bangkokbois were incredibly helpful and allowed me to act comfortable in all sorts of places even if I wasn't.  While Bangkokbois hasn't been updated since the demise of its blogmeister, it  can still be found on the web https://bangkokbois.sawatdeenetwork.com/ and is worth a look...especially for dealing with mamasans, if nothing else.  It was where I learned the term "butterfly".

 

Some of my "educational" successes and failures have been reported in my trip reports and I voiced my frustration at the boys who sit with me without being asked and, consequently, are not tipped.  On the other hand, I'm joined now and then by previous offs - who I might off again and whom will get a 100 baht tip when I leave.  

 

I go to some clubs on a semi regular basis, Hot Male, Hot Male 2, and Screwboys.  When, some years back,  I was beginning to learn about what to do in those kind of places I read a post by a "Vinapu" who mentioned that he always tipped the cutest/handsomest/sexiest boy in the house.  I do this and find that my welcome back is always hearty.

[vinapu]

 you are provided with small locker with key in wet area.

 

always keep in mind that if there's a key it may be second one somewhere.

 

It did not dawn on me until few years ago in one of places with lockers, now defunct ,  boy told me not to leave any money there. 

[DivineMadman]

I reiterate what I've said in other threads as advice of newbies who have little or no experience with massage shops.  I strongly recommend that they try what I feel are the most reliable places: Arena and Banana Club. Whoever you choose should be showering before and after with you. Tip expectations are known. And many reviews appear here and on Travelgayasia website. Then when you experiment with other places, you'll have a good standard for comparison.

 

 

I agree but note:

 

-- Someone reported here that he had some money taken from his wallet at Banana Club - I believe he thought that the masseur ducked out for a bathroom break and took that opportunity to get the master key to the lockers.  Someone emailed the owner/manager but I don't think there was any resolution.  

 

-- The stated tip on the menu at Arena is for shower/massage/hand job only.  Any more has to be agreed to.  At times in the past this has led to some confusion for some.  (At Prince & VCK and some of the others the minimum tip is higher than Arena but is full service, so no need for the added negotiation.)  I forget the tip set up at Banana Club.  

[reader]

Agree that there's always another key.  I think best option is z909's recommendation to take valuables into the shower if it's not in your room.  Just stuff a 7-11 bag into your back pocket and shove your pants into it.

 

While on the general topic, it's worth bearing in mind that there's also always by-pass combinations for room safes.  One of the things I like about Tarntawan is the safe deposit boxes in lobby. Most major hotels usually have them, also.

 

When checking out of hotel, I always clear combo and enter a few random combos because some safes store the most recent one.

Especially because  I tend to use the same combo.

 

Banana Club all-in minimum tip 1k bht for an hour and 1.4k for 90 min. if I recall correctly.

[Travellerdave]

On the subject of security I find that I can be rather careless after a night out in the bars and bringing a boy back to my room and the following illustrates what I mean.

In the Ambiance the safe is near the room exit and you cannot see it from the bed. On one occasion during the night i woke up And went to the toilet and saw that I had left the safe door open following depositing my wallet and loose notes. I remembered that the boy had been there before me and would have also noticed the open door. I did a quick check and formed the impression that maybe money was missing. Getting back into bed I turned the situation over in my mind and was not in the mood for sex even when the boy cuddled up to me. Thankfully I did not confront him and After he had gone I checked and calculated the money carefully and realised that he had not in fact taken any, but it could have been a different story.

Ladyboys are now far more in evidence now compared with when I first discovered Pattaya 18 years ago and they seem to have a bad reputation for crime. I certainly would not engage one for sex or anything else for that matter. Silicone breasts Ugh !. However maybe other gays stray and cross the line.

[santosh108]

A number of years ago I went to Babylon and put my things in a locker in their locker room and locked it with the key they gave me.  A little while later I came back to find a local guy standing in front of my open locker going through my clothes! When he saw me approach, he stopped and walked away. I checked my things and nothing was missing.  I got their just in time.  I never went back.

[Guest]

The locks on sauna lockers are poor quality and I suspect would be easily picked, or opened by rattling a similar key.

Some places also have a loop for a padlock, so if organized, you could bring your own.   

 

If going to a sauna, ultimately your valuables have to go somewhere.   Either in the hotel safe, well hidden in the hotel room or in the locker in the sauna.  In Thailand, I as long as you're staying in a hotel with a good reputation, I suspect the hotel safe is a good option.  In somewhere like Cambodia, even the hotel safe is something I would be reluctant to trust.

 

Did you post google & trip advisor reviews after someone was in your locker in Babylon ?   In my view, these companies need to feel the heat from bad reviews so they keep security up to a reasonable level.   It's one of those areas where the internet helps. 

 

Also, it's been a few years since I was in Babylon.  Do they have padlock loops on the doors ?    I'm pretty sure Sansuk does.

 

And drifting back towards the original topic, I try to be discrete about putting my valuables in the hotel room safe, since I think it's rude to show obvious distrust. 

[Travellerdave]

Samsuck lockers are secured by the locker lock itself and also by a padlock. You get both keys from the locker room attendant when you arrive there having paid your admittance charge. Both keys are on your arm (or leg) band which you retain for the length of your stay. Any purchases are charged to your band number. Seems as secure as they can make it. I've never had a problem there after numerous visits.

Z909 I take your point about being discreet about putting items in the safe whilst having company in the room. I do this usually when the boy is in the shower. I even sometimes leave small amounts of money on the desk or slip my wallet into my travel bag which usually has a few other items in it. I don't take security to extremes but large amounts of cash, spare credit card and passport go in the room safe. I take a note of the cash amount, but have never found any missing.

[Guest]

Thought so  (I visit Sansuck at best once a year).  

So the padlock loops also allow for the possibility of bringing your own padlock.  Every sauna should be like that.  I think they also had CCTV in the area.  

[Travellerdave]

Yes you could certainly use your own padlock, but as you pointed out some of those on sale in Pattaya for say 100 baht are of poor quality. Once I used one in the Tony Gym and proceeded to loose the key. The girl at the reception desk unlocked it with a hair grip !.

Throughout the world tourists are preyed upon by thieves and I think Thailand is no worse than some Western Countries. France, Spain and Italy are very bad for car crime against British holiday makers. However us gay sex tourists have particular security issues in that we invite young itinerate boys into our rooms and beds. It's good to exchange ideas and experiences on this forum.

[ChristianPFC]

How much you ask? It depends.... if it were simple the guys would wear price tags

 

I wish they did! Legal issues apart, you are paying for a service. When I go to a hairdresser there is a price list, when I go to a regular massage there is a price list, only when it comes to sex there is negotiation.

 

I use the expectations for LT/ST in various bars in various places posted here and elsewhere as price list. I don't like to talk about money and activities we will do, just see what happens. I know Soi Twilight boys expect 1500 for ST, and while I might be able to negotiate that down to 1000, that is not a good start. And not talking about money, and giving the boy 1000 at the end, would not be a good end. I take all my business to Pattaya or online, where 1000 will be well received.

[vinapu]

I wish they did! Legal issues apart, you are paying for a service. When I go to a hairdresser there is a price list, when I go to a regular massage there is a price list, only when it comes to sex there is negotiation.

 

I use the expectations for LT/ST in various bars in various places posted here and elsewhere as price list. I don't like to talk about money and activities we will do, just see what happens. I know Soi Twilight boys expect 1500 for ST, and while I might be able to negotiate that down to 1000, that is not a good start. And not talking about money, and giving the boy 1000 at the end, would not be a good end. I take all my business to Pattaya or online, where 1000 will be well received.

It looks that Japan would suit you very well since bar's there clearly state how much and for how long.

 

Your response show how different approaches people have. Some discuss money , some activities, some both and others  none.

It show there's flexibility in the system for both boys and us ( I for one , like to  set money issues up front but like Christian  don't talk about activities as I have fun of finding out )

 

Boys sometimes may ask as well 'how much you give me " or ' what we will be doing".

 

As for negotiation I think we are using too big word. Sure haggling about  price to bring it down from say 2000 to 1000 step by step would take  fun from whole process.

 

What I employ as negotiations  is as per  sample:

 

me :' how much you want? ",

boy: 2000 ***

me : either  'ok" ( usually unless this is out of whack quote ) or 1000 ( not necessarily half , just whatever I'm prepared to pay )

boy: either 'ok ' or 1500 or 2000 (original offer )

me : either 'ok ' or again 1000 (original offer) , no hard feeling if rejected , chances I up my tip in the room if accepted. As you see I give myself only one chance to respond with acceptance or  counter offer  and boy is given  two chances to sound reasonable. 

 

 

 

**** if boy answers ' up to you ' I will tell him how much he will get and this is my last word. If he tries to up it I remind him nicely 'you told me up to you "

[Guest]

It looks that Japan would suit you very well since bar's there clearly state how much and for how long.

 

The difference is you're going to splash out about JPY15000 for a bar drink & fees to cover precisely 1 hour of high quality attention in the bedroom.     That's about 4500 baht.    

 

Holidaying in Tokyo in the same style as Thailand for 2~4 weeks would be expensive.  A short trip is more palatable.

[vinapu]

The difference is you're going to splash out about JPY15000 for a bar drink & fees to cover precisely 1 hour of high quality attention in the bedroom.     That's about 4500 baht.    

 

Holidaying in Tokyo in the same style as Thailand for 2~4 weeks would be expensive.  A short trip is more palatable.

It's precisely I rather fly another 6 hours and spend my vacations in Thailand where for the same price I can get acceptable quality attention whole night including breakfast together.

 

On another hand when one thinks with cold head 4500 is not extreme for all inclusive, let see Dreamboys -  drink for me and boy 900, off fee 700, tip 1500 but rather 2000 if we are talking about high quality, still 3100-3600 baht , much cheaper but  not as much as one would expect . But I gather other costs like accommodation and food are more costly in Japan as well . 

[faranglaw]

apologies for the lengthy post but judging by some recent PM's there's an interest among newcomers in all that  bar liturgy and customs.

 

Liturgy? Yes it is rather like the Catholic Church, isn't it. I hadn't thought of that. :-)

[faranglaw]

always keep in mind that if there's a key it may be second one somewhere.

 

It did not dawn on me until few years ago in one of places with lockers, now defunct ,  boy told me not to leave any money there.

 

 

Many years ago I left my wallet in the locker at Babylon. When I came back, I discovered someone had gotten in and taken about 600 baht, but thoughtfully left me with about 40 baht so I could still get home. I thought that was rather sweet, actually.

[stijntje]

Great topic! Even after 3 visits, it remains useful for me.

[steveboy]

Liturgy? Yes it is rather like the Catholic Church, isn't it. I hadn't thought of that. :-)

 

It can be a natural.  Who knows how many members of the Catholic Church are incognito among the customers.

[vinapu]

Many years ago I left my wallet in the locker at Babylon. When I came back, I discovered someone had gotten in and taken about 600 baht, but thoughtfully left me with about 40 baht so I could still get home. I thought that was rather sweet, actually.

This brings us to a topic of missing money. In 15 trips positively I had nothing stolen from my room , at the massages and in the bars.

 

Only time I had money missing was somewhere between Hero and Sala Daeng. When I left Hero money was there , I think there were two possiblities - either somebody lifted it up on the crowded BTS or I pulled it out  by accident when taking money from the pocket to buy a ticket.

 

Lesson learned, after that I devised system of having small notes and coins in only one pocket and rest distributed between various pockets in my shirt and shorts.

[Londoner]

I'm sure I've posted this elsewhere but on my first  visit to Bangkok, I dropped my wallet in Blue Star Bar (Soi Twilight). I was walking down the soi when one of the go go dancers chased after me to return it. Full.

[a447a]

I must say I've found the bar guys to be very honest over the years and have never had anything stolen.

 

I've had 3000 baht pick-pocketed on the baht bus coming back from Jomtien once, and had an expensive watch stolen by a guy at a massage place. My fault as 1) I should not have taken such a watch to Thailand (I'd forgotten I was wearing it and only realised on the plane, and 2) I took it off when I was having the massage and left the place without it. I immediately went back for it but it had already gone.

 

Bar boys know thatiof something is taken, we can always go back to the bar and complain.

[vinapu]

I'm sure I've posted this elsewhere but on my first  visit to Bangkok, I dropped my wallet in Blue Star Bar (Soi Twilight). I was walking down the soi when one of the go go dancers chased after me to return it. Full.

few months ago paulsf posted equally  uplifting story about  wallet missing in the taxi, thread was called 'Different kind of happy ending".

 

Most of us agree  that considering temptation Thai moneyboys are very honest. It doesn't mean we should be leaving wads of money in the open but doesn't make any sense to be paranoid.

 

And leave those golden chains and watches at home , we don't have ' do not lead us into temptation' in Lord's prayer for nothing.

 

as a general note - often when we travel it's other travelers we should be watching more than locals. Never heard about problems in gay bars  but my straight friends whoring in Nana and soi Cowboy reported about  all of the sudden friendly farangs joining the table and after few rounds drinks leaving for the washroom , tab unpaid , not to be seen again.  

[Londoner]

Yes; I've been the victim only once in twenty years of travel to Thailand. It was on my out to Bangkok at London Heathrow and my passport, money and house keys were stolen. Travel has never been the same since...I guard my belongings with  neurotic attention.

[spoon]

Ive been travelling a lot as well, and the only time i actually lost items were due to my own mistakes, the worse was when i lost my passport, which i put in a plastic bag that contains food only and i left it either in the taxi i took from the airport, or in the piazza where i waited for the owner of the airbnb i rented to fetch us. And this happened in barcelona. I lost some times trying to find the passport to no avail. Then went to police station to report and a trip to my country embassy in madrid, which thankfully already in my travel plan. I didnt lose much money though, just the money to roam-calling the taxi center, the lost and found, but for about 3 days before my trip to madrid, i can hardly fully enjoy the trip. The good thing was, i am not alone at that time. Ive seen other scams in italy, one even got my friends, the infamous bracelet scam. But in thailand, so far my experience has been great.