Newbies advice- bar etiquette and more

[vinapu]

Strange but true, independently from each other two members, one well established here and another new suggested that in Cupidol thread was a lot of  advice , sensible and useful for  newbies  which risks being buried and forgotten under that thread content and suggested resurrecting it in a separate thread devoted to , well , newbies advice.

 

Bravely and shamelessly I decided to try it hoping old hands will share their experiences and new ones will have an opportunity  to ask or even better will not ask because answer will be already here.

 

Sure , all of those subjects were discussed here to no end but one quick look at bottom of forum page shows that we are read by far more guests than members.

 

First two posts will be mine, slightly edited , from mentioned thread so if you read them already there no need to bother.

 

When I  came to Thailand first time   I did my part and researched beforehand very well but still one crucial piece of information escaped me - that there are different levels of tipping for short and long time, it's why I have patience to answer all those questions with obvious answers for some but not for everybody it seems.

[vinapu]

I'd not be fondling or exposing boy's privates  in the bar unless clearly initiated by him which mercifully happens from time to time, usually later in the night when boys are more pressed to get an off. Of course exception is in Eros or Good Boys where that's the whole idea but even there I'm still waiting for them to make first step.

 

Can't envision to send back boy without a tip unless it was him who planted himself beside without an invitation. If I wave him over then in my book he should get something, specially that some body contact is expected and extracted even if it's  just a hug or  everybody's favorite,  hand positioned on his thigh close to the underwear line .

 

That's the move which Rush of bangkokbois blog fame , God let him rest in peace .  credited to be responsible for  more offs than efforts of mamasans and boys smiles combined.

 

Even if I send boy away almost immediately, which happened twice , once due to some ugly zit  and second time in now defunct Happy Boys around the corner from Sunee Plaza when boy seemed to be tooooo interested in unzipping my shirt pocket where I had some money, still gave them something.

 

Contrary to the most here perhaps, very often when I call boy over to sit with me  is usually just to have some warm company while in the bar / all that A/C, LOL / and then  I tell them  I will not be offing them tonight  so they can drop me at any time but they always solder on until I release them. If bar is busy and I'm not in offing mode I tend to have mercy and let them go or if I like  all that hand holding I tip them more than usual 100-200.

 

Of course when boy will be offed , I skip tip in the bar part,  even if he is sitting with me today and we are sealing deal for tomorrow.

Apologies for the lengthy post but judging by some recent PM's there's an interest among newcomers in all that  bar liturgy and customs.      

[vinapu]

another slippery issue : subsequent visit to bar where we had boy or boys offed already but we want to try somebody else.

 

Boys , even those who know that we weren't exactly happy  with them will invariably try to claim an ownership of us. We don't want to hurt their feelings  / or repeat crappy experience /  and have an intention to take one of their bar friends instead. 

 

Lots of diplomatic skills is necessary and at end of day some boys will be still offended or pretend to by our "rejection" including hissy fits and if he has your contact you may receive angry call or e-mail. My advice will be to be honest in our intention, " I like you but want to try X tonight so more boys have  a chance to earn a tip".

 

That's particularly hard to handle if we really like a boy , don't want him to feel bad but nevertheless want to try somebody else. That's my problem at Arena and Bangkok Massage soi Twilight, on another hand boys of Tawan seem to take those ' rejections' very well , probably well trained in understanding meaning of ' butterfly ' although I had some commotion over issue last Dec.

 

I noticed that  boys previously tipped seem to appreciate it and on the next appearance in the bar I feel better having some ' insider ' in the bar already . It makes also easier to off boy without whole drink ritual so some of those exit tips are somehow recovered.

[Guest whall]

This is a good post. How about talk baht to give and your trick of picking the guy that smiles the hardest. I used that and it works, but made me uncomfortable though.

[Guest]

1   Do not fondle, unless it's the kind of bar where that obviously goes.   Known examples are Eros, Power Boys, Good Boys & Nature boy Bangkok.  There it is expected.

 

2  Generally tip someone if you invite him to sit with you.  I think I have never failed to tip in such circumstances.  Theoretically if he had serious attitude or hygiene issues, I would not feel obliged to tip.   For example if it was clear he had no interest, sending him straight back with no tip would be fair.  It's just that I don't recall being in that position. 

 

3 If someone sits with you uninvited, you are under no obligation to tip.  If I had no interest at all in the boy and had never met him previously, I would simply send him away.     The more likely situation is a previous off sits with you, uninvited.     If he's one you may off again, then significant diplomacy is required.    If he was a dud, but you fancy other boys in the same bar, he needs to be sent away without humiliation & probably a tip.    Leaving fairly promptly is an option.

 

If you off a boy from a bar & there are several others in the same bar you like, then it's important do do some groundwork by making sure he knows you're a butterfly on the first meeting & don't be promising to off him again, if you intend to go back to the bar to see some of the others.  Much better to tell him you may visit the bar to see some of the other boys as well. 

 

I am far from mastering this topic, so welcome other advice.

[JimmyJoe]

This thread is a great idea. Lots of useful information already.

I was wondering again about off tips, specifically the difference between expectations in host bars vs. gogo bars.

If, assuming others agree, the going rates in Bangkok would be approx. 2000 ST 3000 LT (Hotmale, Dreamboys, Freshboys, Classic), and in Pattaya approx. 1000 ST and 2000 LT (Cupidol, Power Boys, Nice Boys, DreamBoys), what would ST, LT expectations be at the host bars, Bangkok Hotmale2, etc. , Pattaya Jomtien, Sunee?
 

[Guest whall]

What about rates in Chiang Mai?

[steveboy]

3 If someone sits with you uninvited, you are under no obligation to tip.  If I had no interest at all in the boy and had never met him previously, I would simply send him away.     The more likely situation is a previous off sits with you, uninvited.     If he's one you may off again, then significant diplomacy is required.    If he was a dud, but you fancy other boys in the same bar, he needs to be sent away without humiliation & probably a tip.    Leaving fairly promptly is an option.

 

How you send a boy away, both graciously and ungraciously ?

[Guest KitPattaya]

Thanks for starting the topic. As a newbie I really like to read it.

 

Could someone please clarify how long is shorttime (3 hours??) and longtime (whole night and /or up to complete holiday?)

[Boy69]

I had odd experience lately, I was at one of the bars in BT Pattaya (I don't want to expose to much details) I saw stunning boy on the stage he seems more than a "dancing/ host" boy than a regular gogo boy I didn't off him but didn't stop thinking about him he was really young stunning star back in my room I saw him at the hornet and approached him he immediately agreed to come to my room for 1500 Bhat ST for my surprise after the sex he asked to stay with me all my vacation about 3 weeks including Phuket and BKK for 1500 a day ,he was really special and beautiful so I agreed immediately he came to my room the day after as agreed.the first 2 days were great and I have had wonderful time with the boy , afterwards something strange happened he became rude,aggressive, doesn't want to huge,kiss or fuck anymore I tried my best to understand what was the problem with him at the next days but with no success, at the end I have a fight with him that we can't continue be together with such kind of behavior and he decided to leave my room , I paid what we agreed in advance. after 4 hours he sent me messages that he want to come with me to Phuket and that he really like me, I was completely amazed just 4 hours ago he left and now he wants to come back and escort me to Phuket and BKK ??? I told him there is no way I'll take a boy that is not willing to huge, kiss or fuck with me and was disappointed and promised to change and that he really likes me but although he was stunning I was tried from his behavior.

Till now I completely puzzled, Did someone have similar experience? Can someone explain what is wrong with the boy or maybe with me?

 

Unfortunately I do like him and now I am in my way to Phuket and do miss him.

[Travellerdave]

There is no set time for a ST. It depends on mainly on you. Could last 3 hours but frequently a Lot less. For me Often it comes to an end following me cumming following topping the boy but sometimes afterwards I like a little kissing and cuddling.

For long time it is better to specify the expected time of departure, as some boys try and leave too early and occasionally it's hard to get them up, dressed and away. Typically it could be between midnight and 9/10 am, but sometimes I will take them to breakfast or even with them staying for part of the day, perhaps going to the pool or beach.

When you like a boy that can result in him being with you for the rest of your holiday. I've had long term young boyfriends in the past but not during recent trips. However they will still be money boys requiring payment and often expect presents of say clothes or jewelry, so not necessarily a low cost option.

[reader]

1.  Don't wear anything gold.

 

2. Be wary of ladyboys, particularly in Pattaya and especially when they are in groups of two or more. The following article describes theft from a foreigner by ladyboys.   This is a commonplace event in Pattaya and some involve violence.

 

From Pattaya One

 

A Chinese tourist claims his 150,000 baht platinum necklace has gone missing after he hugged two ladyboys in Pattaya.

Li Shengyu, 36, a bank manager, told police how he was walking on Soi 2 Pattaya during the early hours of Wednesday morning when him and his friends were approached by the ladyboys.

 

The ladyboys approached the three Chinese men by telling them that one of them had dropped something. When they stopped to check the ladyboys started touching and hugging the men, Mr Li said.

 

When the men returned to their hotel, Mr Li said he realised his expensive platinum necklace was missing and that he believes the ladyboys had stolen it from him.

 

Police said they will check nearby CCTV footage.

 

http://pattayaone.news/en/chinese-tourist-hugs-ladyboys/

 

 

[Alexx]

Many of these theft reports are cases of insurance fraud.

[reader]

 Here's just a sampling of ladyboy incidents, none of which involved insurance fraud.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SULXS_C4Cd0

 

Pattaya police officers made the statement about arrest Mr Chayarat Muttiko aged 26 and Mr Itthipol Sichumpol aged 22, they are ladyboys, on charge of robbery. Pol Lt Col Chitdecha revealed that he was notified from a Chinese tourist on July 25 that these ladyboys robbed his gold necklace with amulet. They tried to befriend and offer him prostitute before they snatched and went away quickly.

http://pattayadailynews.com/pattaya-ladyboys-busted-for-theft/

 

Two motorbike taxis won kudos from police after they apprehended two transvestites accused of pickpocketing a Middle Eastern tourist.

http://www.pattayamail.com/news/motorcycle-taxi-drivers-chase-down-accused-ladyboy-thieves-136965

 

Thai police are engaged in a worsening street battle against ladyboys, who have become increasingly aggressive as they beat and rob tourists in popular ‘girlie’ resort towns.In the latest brutal attack, German tourist Lutz Mohler was smashed in the face with a rock after being approached by two ladyboys in the Pattaya area, south of Bangkok, resulting in him losing consciousness and being robbed of all his money.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3558652/Thai-police-warn-gangs-ladyboys-targeting-tourists-wave-muggings-German-man-attacked-robbed.html

 

A Facebook page WE LOVE PATTYA has posted a video clip that 2 foreign tourists had been surrounded by a group of Thai ladyboys before the foreigners were attacked.

http://pattayadailynews.com/foreigners-attacked-by-ladyboy-gang-on-pattaya-beach/

 

Police are investigating whether a British man jumped or was pushed to his death by a group of transvestites out the fourth-floor window of a central Pattaya apartment house.

http://www.pattayamail.com/news/police-question-british-mans-fatal-tumble-from-pattaya-apartment-54115

 

Phuket ladyboys nabbed after snatching from Swedish tourists

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phuket-ladyboys-nabbed-patong-snatching-swedish-tourists-18920/

 

Two lady boys who snatched a tourist’s wallet were subdued by motorbike taxi drivers at the scene.

http://pattayatoday.net/news/news-from-around-pattaya/ladyboys-busted/

 

Thai police are again alerting foreign tourists to the dangers posed by some ladyboys robbing unwary visitors. 

http://pattayatoday.net/news/latest-edition/police-warn-tourists-beware-ladyboys/

 

Two transvestites have been arrested for allegedly pickpocketing an Australian tourist on Walking Street.

http://www.pattayamail.com/news/2-ladyboys-nabbed-pickpocketing-aussie-178533

[Guest samebb]

Asking about differences in off fees in different types of bars (gogo/beer bar), in different cities, Bangkok or Pattaya will get you as many different answers as you have questions. 

The only real set rules are ST is cheaper than LT and Pattaya is generally cheaper than Bangkok. 
Everything else is open to negotiation. 

You can get a boy in Bangkok for 1000 LT, and a boy in Pattaya for 2000 ST. 
You can pay a gogo boy 2000 ST + 500 bar fine one night.. and the next day find him on Hornet and pay 2000 LT.

You can also spend a week with a boy for 2000/3000 ... if you have a special thing going on....

Just get out there, chat, flirt, have a beer and a great time and leave all your inhibitions at home. The only rule is these boys are poor an need money. Everything else is negotiable. 
 

[Vessey]

For every Thai boy out there trying to get the maximum they can for ST/LT  there is a Farang trying to pay as little as possible for the same.

 

For me I wouldn't dream of paying less than 1k baht for a ST and 2k baht for a LT, even when (actually particularly when) a boy is desperate for cash. 

 

But conversely I would be reluctant to pay more than 2k for ST or 3k for LT.

 

Some farang don't like to negotiate - they just pay the lad afterwards and expect them to be grateful with what they are given. I never do; I like to to agree upfront on their tip, or at least their basic tip, and indicate how they might earn a 'bonus' on that. 

 

I like the lad to walk away afterwards feeling that, at the very least, he has been treated fairly. 

[bucknaway]

How much you ask? It depends.... if it were simple the guys would wear price tags

[spoon]

Great thread! Have benefited greatly by some of these advise read before in other threads.

 

One thing to add, there is another great thread on how to treat/ignore mamasan. Maybe Vinapu can put the link up in the first post if it is still possible.

 

Also, when you enter a bar, especially gogo bar, mamasan will escort you and show you a seat, but you can always insist to find the seat yourself, and have a bit of a tour of the place and pick seats where you are comfortable with. Unless its a full and packed bar, i always do this myself, and i like to seat a bit further from door and near the area where the boys goes in and out lol. Sometimes u can see them changing, always sexy. Also try to seat where u can have some space for the boy (boys) to seat next to you.

 

My general advise is to go and try different bars if u can, i usually go one bar a night, or 2 if i dont find anyone on the first bar. Most bar closes around 12.30 with some exception that closes around 2am, so if u want to bar hop, best do it a bit earlier.

 

And last thing, few normal beer bar/restaurant along the street provide seats facing the streets, perfect if u arrived there early and want to see boys coming in for work, or just see the massage boys outside. I find maxis is great for that, where u can sit and have good view of xboys, fresh boys where u can get a glimpse of boys on stage there, and massage boys sitting outside of bony and bangkok massage. U can also see boys from dreamboys, classic boys walking to go to their bars, also ladyboys and touter in actions. U can do this at hotmale bars too. One thing i observed that the touter wont even bother with indians tourist. Even if they walk alone.

 

I am writting this from hua hin, great relaxing city and i like it, but a bit expensive to get around and some of the attractions like santorini park are abit far from hua hin city, so need more time and money to go there. The markets/night markets are great too.

[Guest whall]

Do the same rules about Bangkok and Pattaya apply to Chiang Mai?

[vinapu]

For me I wouldn't dream of paying less than 1k baht for a ST and 2k baht for a LT, even when (actually particularly when) a boy is desperate for cash. 

 

But conversely I would be reluctant to pay more than 2k for ST or 3k for LT.

 

Some farang don't like to negotiate - they just pay the lad afterwards and expect them to be grateful with what they are given. I never do; I like to to agree upfront on their tip, or at least their basic tip, and indicate how they might earn a 'bonus' on that. 

 

 

I'm using the same guidelines when comes to tip. On few occasions paid more  / literally twice for ST and four times for LT / but

this was because I either wanted boy badly or wanted to avoid scene in the room.

 

Advice for newbies will be , keep your head cool and don't let your cock to do the thinking or be prepared to pay extra. It's why I advise newbies to set tip expectation with boy before you go and don't assume  that if he agreed for 2500 last Wednesday, he will not ask for more tomorrow ( or may go for less ). They can see spark in your eyes and tend to charge for it.

 

As for time , short time is usually as long as it takes to do the deed, some boys may linger longer for hughs and kisses , others will be springing  to the shower and out of door so it time is important to you communicate your expectations.

 

Long time is usually till morning / breakfast and I'd communicate clearly that if he leaves  earlier short time tip applies. From time to time you may have a boy who agrees for long time for say 3000 and after 1 hr he will announce he must go under some pretext , pockets his 1000 instead  and he will be gone . That's dishonest and warrants publishing his nick and number all over.  

[vinapu]

I had odd experience lately..... for my surprise after the sex he asked to stay with me all my vacation about 3 weeks including Phuket and BKK for 1500 a day 

Till now I completely puzzled, Did someone have similar experience? 

 

lessons for newbies from your story will be ;

a/ fact that boy is stunner and enthusiastic in bed doesn't mean he will be good travel companion

 

b/ it is a prescription for ruined vacation to take as companion somebody you barely know. It's one thing to have fabulous night but another one  to be with boy 7/24 for several days in row as it may wear both of you

 

c/ if you or boy decided to part  ways, stick to your or his decision and don't take him back as those antics will likely  be repeated

[Guest]

I'm using the same guidelines when comes to tip. On few occasions paid more  / literally twice for ST and four times for LT / but

this was because I either wanted boy badly or wanted to avoid scene in the room.

 

This of course provides a good financial incentive for people to threaten problems.   Ideally we need to stand our ground, but I do understand it's more difficult with big guys than some of the twinks.

[reader]

This of course provides a good financial incentive for people to threaten problems.   Ideally we need to stand our ground, but I do understand it's more difficult with big guys than some of the twinks.

 

Point well taken. I've only had a few guys who requested more than agreed on when it was time for them to leave.  In both cases, I declined, reassured by the fact that I was staying in a hotel that holds guests' ID's until they check with me.  In most situations, however, I believe the advice to be clear in advance is sufficient to prevent unpleasant outcomes.  And if you're taking someone from a bar or message shop with a good reputation on the boards, I believe that you're even less likely to encounter problems. That is one of the great advantages the boards--and this one in particular--offers readers.

 

I reiterate what I've said in other threads as advice of newbies who have little or no experience with massage shops.  I strongly recommend that they try what I feel are the most reliable places: Arena and Banana Club. Whoever you choose should be showering before and after with you. Tip expectations are known. And many reviews appear here and on Travelgayasia website. Then when you experiment with other places, you'll have a good standard for comparison.

 

I believe that newbies are better off starting with known venues before venturing onto the apps in search of partners.

[vinapu]

 

 as advice of newbies who have little or no experience with massage shops. 

this brings us to question of security of valuables at those shops.

 

We are not in control of our possessions while in the shower and also when we are massaged face down.

 

While I never encountered any problems in my zillion+ massages from time to time there are reports of something missing, not even necessarily credible.*

So my advise will be don't take with you more than you think you need plus perhaps 500 baht  just in case.

 

* ( I was once witness of big commotion at Rays with departing guest accusing theft from safety box. Later it turned out he found money somewhere in his luggage and admitted to being fool in one of our forums ). 

[reader]

 

 

We are not in control of our possessions while in the shower and also when we are massaged face down.

 

 

One advantage of Banana Club is that you are provided with small locker with key in wet area.

 

In places like Arena and My Hero that have showers in the message room, you have an added sense of security.  In these places I choose to roll up my trousers (all with zipper pockets) rather than hanging them on a hook or hanger.

 

Likewise, I carry less than 1,000 baht beyond what I know I'll need.