One more Witch Hunt at Gay Site

[steveboy]

Yesterday Scooby banned me from a thread started by Numazu. He wrote: 

 

"Steveboy, your posts in this thread and others that are initiated by the OP are now off limits.  I don't know what you have against him but it is done.  A post in this thread and you are suspended."

 

Since Scooby is the moderator of this site I am complying, and I don't blame him since he has to keep people happy in our playing pan.

 

My experience here is of being on the receiving end of gays who don't like being attacked by society but don't mind attacking one of their own.

 

There is no doubt that I am an honorary member of the gay community and the GT community:

- I am supportive of homosexuality,  sex tourism, gay promiscuity, paying for gay sex.

- I have never outed anyone, I defend gay sex workers, I defend anyone being victimized by gay issues.

- I have defended Numazu when he was attacked for showing the faces of some gays in his pictures.

- I have defended Jfarmer017 when he was attacked in his "Ode of Boyish Beauty" for posting pictures with the best of intentions, and one happened to be a boy he paid for sex which turned out to be a friend of Samebb. I criticized Samebb and Numazu for their witch hunt against him.

 

I am perfectly harmless and I don't attack anyone. I have no reasons. I feel no jealousy against anyone, neither here nor anywhere else, this is one grace that comes with a good long life

 

While I also read and eat Numazu's literary candy, I am critical of the element of excess in it, which in my opinion disqualifies him from being a role model. I am not attacking him, and even Scooby could not find any of this when he wrote "I don't know what you have against him" 

 

I am not an attacker but a critic. While attacking is a deficiency, to criticize can be positive. While I don't like to be attacked, I don't mind being criticized as this gives me something to think about and to discuss. To be open to criticism and not to attack the critic is an important part of the freedom of speech we are entitled as intelligent human beings.

 

Hopefully after all this discourse this community will understand and not come down on me so easily. And while being civil you can criticize me all you want, this is fine with me.  

 

[bobsaigon]

Steve, you say:   "While I also read and eat Numazu's literary candy, I am critical of the element of excess in it, which in my opinion disqualifies him from being a role model."   

 

A role model of what?   It seems a term very foreign to a gay forum.    

[steveboy]

Steve, you say:   "While I also read and eat Numazu's literary candy, I am critical of the element of excess in it, which in my opinion disqualifies him from being a role model."   

 

A role model of what?   It seems a term very foreign to a gay forum.    

 

A good observation.  "Role model" is very subjective. I don't mean a role model of traditional morality.  

Instead, a role model of smart, pragmatic living combining pleasures with productivity in a way that is good for us and for those around us.

[neddy]

Steveboy, it is his life to live as he chooses.

 

Get over it.

[steveboy]

Steveboy, it is his life to live as he chooses.

 

I know.  So is the life of Annabel Chong of Singapore (look her up...)

He surely can live his life the way he wants to, this is not my call.

I just give my opinion, which in this case is a criticism of a sex fast lane,

because excesses are excesses and not only for my standards.

[kokopelli]

steveboy, you are beginning to sound more like Mrs. Grundy.   (look her up).

[PeterRS]

Steveboy, most who post on any type of chat forums set themselves up for some sort of opposing comments. Thankfully we are all different and many hold differing opinions. Some comments are critical of others. But you take criticism too far. The Oxford online dictionary defines criticism as "the expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of perceived faults or mistakes." And above you define your posts as 

 

a criticism of a sex fast lane, because excesses are excesses and not only for my standards.

 

I recall you saying you are now 70 or thereabouts and that at numazu age you would have a different outlook on sex (something like that). You have also been married and have children. Numazu does not. Your perspective inevitably is very, very different and you disagree with it. Fine! But you overdo it and its clear that most others dont agree. To quote Shakespeare: "Methinks thou doest protest too much!"

 

Even your use of "Witch Hunt" in the title of this thread is overblown. It is both emotive and flat wrong.

[steveboy]

steveboy, you are beginning to sound more like Mrs. Grundy.   (look her up).

 

"Mrs. grundy definition, Mrs. a narrow-minded, conventional person who is extremely critical of any breach of propriety"

 

Hahaha... sounding narrow-minded, conventional...  you want to have your ears checked?

 

But think seriously about it:  would a conventional gay be attacked by so many narrow-minded common sex addicts who only think with their lower heads and follow with their tongues hanging out a charming Pied Piper of Hamelin that leads them to their world of fantasies?

 

Only an unconventional open minded person would attract such a witch hunt by the sex addicts who react rambunctious like children who fear for their candy and try to silence any voice that distracts from their wet daydreams...  LOL!  this is so hilarious...    

[bobsaigon]

Steve, Thanks for your explanation (a role model of smart, pragmatic living combining pleasures with productivity in a way that is good for us and for those around us).  You and I are of a similar age but it appears we are far from being on the same page about gay life.   Someone who is young enough and energetic enough to spend considerable time and resources in structuring his sex life while at the same time earning a living appears to me to be a fine “role  model”.    It worked for me (minus the Songkran and disco activities) even when I was in my sixties and early seventies.  That would cover the “productivity in a way that is good for us” part of your explanation.

 

“In a way that is good for those around us” ?  That’s where you lost me.  Someone participating in numerous commercial sex encounters is contributing to the financial well being of the sex workers.  I don’t see why anyone would object to that.  They know he’s there for fun and they know he’s not looking for a long term relationship.

 

A few years ago, there was a bitcoin charlatan on one of the other boards who said he lead a polyamorous life, which to him meant that he could pick up and later drop any number of partners, and claim it was all in the name of love.     The last we heard from him was that he was attempting to bring a boy from Myanmar to the States as his fiancé and based on the description of his previous relationships, the boy was likely to find himself discarded within a few months of arriving in the Promised Land.  That, I agree, is certainly not “good for those around us”. 

 

So, maybe you and I can agree to disagree about how younger gay men should lead their lives.    I suspect that there is a good number of board members who would love to be able to lead their lives exactly as OP in the other thread is leading his right now.

 

Cheers

[PeterRS]

Only an unconventional open minded person would attract such a witch hunt by the sex addicts who react rambunctious like children who fear for their candy and try to silence any voice that distracts from their wet daydreams...  LOL!  this is so hilarious...    

It is what it is. Like it or not. If you continue to call members here "sex addicts who react like rambunctious children" I cant see you having a very long future here.

[steveboy]

I recall you saying you are now 70 or thereabouts and that at numazu age you would have a different outlook on sex (something like that). You have also been married and have children. Numazu does not. Your perspective inevitably is very, very different and you disagree with it. Fine! But you overdo it and its clear that most others dont agree. To quote Shakespeare: "Methinks thou doest protest too much!"

Even your use of "Witch Hunt" in the title of this thread is overblown. It is both emotive and flat wrong.

 

PeterRS,  thank you for your comments.  Try to think clearly where the overdoing is.  I expressed my honest opinion that numazu's fast sex lane is an excess and a lot of projectiles flew to my head, to the point that Scooby had to ban me from the thread to restore peace.  Now Kokopelli says that I sound "extremely critical of any breach of propriety"!  Is this like a group of heroin users who come down on a guy because he only smokes marijuana?  Do I have to be an extremist to be acceptable?  

 

Numazu lives a life quite different than the one I have lived. I could have done exactly what he seems to be doing but I had reasons not to do so, and I find myself fortunate and proud that I didn't.  Why do I have to hide this which I find positive, afraid that people will take it as narrow-minded and conventional and against pleasures?  I am an Epicurian, welcoming sensual pleasures without any prejudices.  But I don't see anything wrong in having practical limits. 

[steveboy]

It is what it is. Like it or not. If you continue to call members here "sex addicts who react like rambunctious children" I cant see you having a very long future here.

 

Oh, this site is full of fine members.  I only call "sex addicts who react like rambunctious children" those who indeed act like this by attacking those who make a criticism.

[steveboy]

Steve, Thanks for your explanation (a role model of smart, pragmatic living combining pleasures with productivity in a way that is good for us and for those around us).  You and I are of a similar age but it appears we are far from being on the same page about gay life.   Someone who is young enough and energetic enough to spend considerable time and resources in structuring his sex life while at the same time earning a living appears to me to be a fine “role  model”.    It worked for me (minus the Songkran and disco activities) even when I was in my sixties and early seventies.  That would cover the “productivity in a way that is good for us” part of your explanation.

 

“In a way that is good for those around us” ?  That’s where you lost me.  Someone participating in numerous commercial sex encounters is contributing to the financial well being of the sex workers.  I don’t see why anyone would object to that.  They know he’s there for fun and they know he’s not looking for a long term relationship.

....

 

Yes, you have good reasons to question what I wrote.  Maybe you have better information in the "while at the same time earning a living".  The numerous stories by Numazu and his sex trips one after the other cast a doubt in my mind on how he has time to earn a living. Add to this the compulsion to make all these trips.  He himself has revealed this in his latest thread: 

 

"This is my 14th 12th trip to LOS and this is probably the shortest one that I have ever taken. I am taking a short trip to Bangkok in between my longer trip to Asia this May (referenced here).".... "I am intoxicated by the sex industry in Thailand, and fascinated by their lives and try to make friends with the money boys and locals..."

 

You think it is good to be "intoxicated by the sex industry"?  Couldn't he make a better contribution to society than primarily trying to satisfy his sex intoxication?  This is what I mean by "a way that is good for us and for those around us".

 

I certainly agree with you that contributing to the money boys making a living is something positive. 

 

 

 

So, maybe you and I can agree to disagree about how younger gay men should lead their lives.    I suspect that there is a good number of board members who would love to be able to lead their lives exactly as OP in the other thread is leading his right now.

 

Cheers

 

We are probably more in agreement than what it appears.  I am sure that many board members dream of being in the shoes of Numazu in his escapades.  This reminds me of many Muslim men who dream of dying for Allah and meeting their 72 virgins in their heaven...  But it may be smarter to aim for and make a reality as good as possible.  

[bobsaigon]

Oh.  Yes, we are definitely not on the same page, but I wish you good luck.

[PeterRS]

He himself has revealed this in his latest thread: 

 

"This is my 14th 12th trip to LOS and this is probably the shortest one that I have ever taken. I am taking a short trip to Bangkok in between my longer trip to Asia this May (referenced here).".... "I am intoxicated by the sex industry in Thailand, and fascinated by their lives and try to make friends with the money boys and locals..."

 

You think it is good to be "intoxicated by the sex industry"?  Couldn't he make a better contribution to society than primarily trying to satisfy his sex intoxication?

 

What do you know about his life to even suggest that last sentence? You know little or nothing about how he contributes to society. And how do you define a contribution to society? 

 

You and numazu belong to hugely different generations. You were married with kids. He has a partner and like many in gay relationships nowadays enjoys both a much greater degree of sexual freedom and the cash and much reduced costs nowadays to enjoy it.

 

You say "I could have done exactly what he seems to be doing but I had reasons not to do so". Really? When you were his age HIV-AIDS was about to cut a swathe through gay men and gay sex tourism was far different and far less developed to what it is today. No doubt you were afraid of death and the possibility that if you caught HIV you might pas it on to your wife if you were still married by then (I dont want or need to know). You will also recall that prior to AIDS many gay men in the USA went almost crazy with all sorts of promiscuous sex and multiple partners to enjoy the freedoms they had gained since Stonewall. They gay world was terrified. I know because I felt that terror when I became sexually active. 

 

Then you add "I find myself fortunate and proud that I didn't." Good on you. You are you. I am me. Numazu is Numazu. We are all different. Accept it!

 

You just will not understand that since Thailand started opening up to gay tourism, much of it gay sex tourism - ironically at around the same time in the early 1980s, many millions have visited the country, lived in the country and return regularly to the country. Some gay westerners work in other parts of Asia and along with a growing number of Asians probably come here several times a year. For most of their time sex is likely to be foremost in their minds. Back home they may be pillars of society. But I have no right to criticise anyone of having an "excessive" sex drive just because he is different from me? Same for you.

[forky123]

The only witch hunt here appears to be your unnatural fixation on other people's lives. The "holier than thou" attitude seems very much like the people who come knocking at the door to convert me to one sect or another. How other people live there lives is simply none of your business and fixating on them and commenting on areas of their lives you have no clue about is frankly disturbing.

[Alexx]

steveboy, I don't agree that banning you from that thread or the posts critical of your conduct that have led to Scooby doing that constitute a witch hunt. In my opinion, it was a measured response; you didn't lose your posting privileges altogether, but do need to clean up your act.

 

I see trip reports as a gift to the community by those who are willing to spend a considerable amount of time and effort to write these. As with any other gift, I believe that those who don't like it should simply do the polite thing and remain silent. Feedback in trip report threads should be limited to encouragement, questions if you need clarification on tips given and the likes. Nobody who posts trip reports should be subjected to insults, derision, mockery or insinuations.

 

If you want to criticize a certain lifestyle that you don't like, do so in a new thread without making reference to any particular poster. In other words, criticize the behavior you dislike, not the poster(s), and don't use it as a means to derail another thread.

 

As you don't pay for numazu's lifestyle, I wonder why you think that you are entitled to question if or how he finds the time to work to finance it. That really is none of your business and your insinuations are not just silly, but also insulting. Just why do you think that numazu or any other poster should have to suffer from being subjected to that kind of nonsense? I don't see any reason why posting such crap should be tolerated!

[Guest]

Steveboy has been warned for the last time! Alexx said it better then I could.

[spoon]

The only witch hunt here appears to be your unnatural fixation on other people's lives. The "holier than thou" attitude seems very much like the people who come knocking at the door to convert me to one sect or another. How other people live there lives is simply none of your business and fixating on them and commenting on areas of their lives you have no clue about is frankly disturbing.

Exactly, the constant reminder of his way of life is akin of priest preaching in the middle of street during halloween in itaewon, south korea. Similar to thousands of passerby there, i choose to ignore the priest and steveboy.

[Vessey]

We each monger, or at least holiday, in our different ways, if for no other reason that our backgrounds are hugely varied and as a consequence are looking to scratch our own particular itch while we are here.

 

What draws us to this forum is varied too, perhaps with a sexual attraction to young Thai males as our common link, but actually, probably, with precious little else in common.

 

I am very far from the most experienced person here, but after 17 trips I am aware that there are younger visitors than me, people with far more money than me, people fitter than me, people who have bigger cocks than me, people who party harder than me, people who are more fun than me, and people who want to spend their money in different ways than I would. etc. etc. But that said, in my own way, I have huge fun on my holidays that keeps me wanting to return.

 

I can read about the experiences of others and think - well I would have done that differently - but it was their holiday not mine, and if they had a great time and hurt no-one in doing so, that's all that matters.

 

I have absolutely no wish to see anyone banned or suspended (who hasn't already been banned or suspended LOL), but I do think we should all be in less of a rush to criticize threads when the people writing them have gone to huge effort to post and keep us entertained. Yes we all are entitled to our opinions, but its not always helpful to post them. Surely our aim should be to encourage more people to post their trip reports and share their experiences?

[reader]

I see trip reports as a gift to the community by those who are willing to spend a considerable amount of time and effort to write these. As with any other gift, I believe that those who don't like it should simply do the polite thing and remain silent. Feedback in trip report threads should be limited to encouragement, questions if you need clarification on tips given and the likes. Nobody who posts trip reports should be subjected to insults, derision, mockery or insinuations.

 

 

Trip reports and venue reports are the meat and potatoes (or fish and rice, if you will) of any forum.  They get the biggest readership and it's why most of us look in so frequently.  They contain information we may well use in making decisions about where to stay, places to go, sights to visit and guys to seek out or even avoid.

 

Over time, we lost a handful of great resources. One was all about massage shops, another few narrated adventures with the Thai BF's that were fun to follow, and there was the wonderful "Dancing with the Devil" series that featured the author's adventures with Bangkok MB's. I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

 

As Alexx aptly says, members who post these reports are doing all of us a big service.  Not only do we gain the benefit of the experience of others, we get titillated--I do, anyway--at some of the more descriptive segments. The last thing we should do is discourage those who compose them. Responses like that can discourage others from posting their first reports--the last thing we want to happen, no?

 

Steveboy, it's no witch hunt; it simply represents a statement of what the vast majority of members collectively values.

[stijntje]

I see trip reports as a gift to the community by those who are willing to spend a considerable amount of time and effort to write these. As with any other gift, I believe that those who don't like it should simply do the polite thing and remain silent. Feedback in trip report threads should be limited to encouragement, questions if you need clarification on tips given and the likes. Nobody who posts trip reports should be subjected to insults, derision, mockery or insinuations.

 

I agree 200% with you!

[Guest]

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