Bangkok Trip Report: To Butterfly or not to Butterfly Part 2 – The Devil and the Angel

[reader]

Although I fall squarely into the hunk camp, I have often strayed.  When I do it's almost always a lad who exhibits characteristics of both camps. To me, that's one of things that keep bringing me back: choices.

 

You can get a sense of the crossover factor in the photos section.  Members who usually only "like" twink or hunk find themselves sometimes in agreement on a certain type that defies classification but you know you like it when you see it.

[spoon]

That brings another choices into play, faces vs body, pecs vs abs, and dick vs booty. And more comes into play when u are in bar face to face with the boy, attitude, personality, manliness or effeminate, humble or snobish. And even some small things like the way they dress, their smells, their likes and dislikes, their brain, their backgrounds etc. When it comes to choosing the boy, all of these comes into play, one might be more important than the other, and because of these, the boy that i like, might be someone else's bad off and vice versa. And all of the above also true for what the boy view of you, and will definitely affect their performance, and how they behave when they are with you. In short, go and find out yourself, its part of the fun really!

[anddy]

The huge divide between the lovers and haters of Pattaya continues to surprise me on this forum. [...]

 

 

I never mentioned hate, I just said there was a divide. [...]

 

you mentioned a divide between "lovers" and "haters", so you DID say "hate", see quote! (emphasis mine to highlight the H-word lol) 

 

/nit-picking mode off  

 

just as Soi Twilight is not my thing really, so is Pattaya (without having ever been). Both are just commercial sex scenes, which is perfectly fine (or else I wouldn't be frequenting this board LOL), but not really my thing. So I guess I'm not a Pattaya "hater" but I'm indifferent to it, whereas I do love Bangkok and to live there, coz its a huge and sometimes messy big city, which *IS* my thing

[DivineMadman]

 So I guess I'm not a Pattaya "hater" but I'm indifferent to it, whereas I do love Bangkok and to live there, coz its a huge and sometimes messy big city, which *IS* my thing

+1

[vinapu]

 how everything I like about Pattaya is everything he dislikes. 

this is what makes life colorful . punters entertained and all kinds of boys employed.

 

Spoon is bringing lots of valid points , many things are  taken into consideration , sometimes subconsciously before we decide we have hots for this and not that boy. And boy feels the same , he may go with different people if only for money but from time to time he may actually feel something for his  client even if temporarily.

 

Easy to see in the bar when boys on the stage  somethimes chase with their eyes one patron and at the same time trying to avoid eye contact with another. In massage some boys will be looking at you and others still will be focused at some point well above of our heads.

 

It's why after years of trying I'm looking for that eye contact or even better smile and if I don't see it I'll go empty handed as it's usually not worth time and expensese. Not fool proof but seems to be pretty  good indicator.

[Guest lurkerspeaks]

Hey it's my thread that refuses to die is back J! And since the thread is almost up to 35k in views, I gotta put in my 2 cents here somehow (and I am currently bored in my flight to somewhere, thank goodness for airplane internet).

 

Bangkok vs Pattaya

 

pattaya.jpg

 

Ahhh yes, the eternal struggle between the two Thai cities, vying for your pink dollars. If you’re an occasional visitor, like me, and feel the need to maximize your fun because you usually don’t have time to spare wandering around aimlessly, trying to find what works for you and choosing between the two city choices, is usually something you need to do. Through my 14 trips, I have narrowed down what works and doesn't work for me, and yet sometimes the places I frequent sometimes still hold surprises for me. This trip report is a testament to that. And it usually isn’t because of the specific place I am staying at, but it is usually because of the company.

 

So I’m presenting my accounting on which city does what aspect the best. Like always, this is opinion are based on my preference. Your Mileage May Vary™, as usual, just because we are all different people. But I think by now you guys know fully well what warms my cockles, based on the 5 trip reports I have written here. I included links to some of my “reviews” or experiences I’ve had in the bars mentioned.

 

*Gogo Bars*

 

Bangkok

 

Bars I’ve visited: Dream Boy, Hot Male, X-Boys, Fresh Boys, X-Size, Jupiter, ScrewBoys, Tawan

 

Bars wish-list: Classic, Boys 66

 

Pattaya

 

Bars I’ve Visited: Boyzboyzboyz, X-Boys, Toy Boys, Nice Boys, A-bomb

 

Bars wish-list: 360

 

screwboy.jpg

 

The gogo bars are the number one reason I go to Thailand. There are a lot beautiful boys around the world, but the one thing that sets Thailand apart is its gogo bars. No other place in the world has this mount of ease of access to boys like Thailand has. You are always guaranteed a good time if you know what you want, and have some baht to spare. Bangkok and Pattaya both have great gogo bars, and I really don’t have a preference to either city in terms of quality of the bars, entertainment and boys.

 

But just for sheer variety, I’d have to give the edge to Bangkok. If you’re in the mood for super twinks, boy next door types, matiness idol hunks or muscle gods, you can probably find what you’re looking for in Bangkok. And there are more gogo bars in Bangkok, so if you’re only staying for a week, you won’t have trouble finding the variety you need if you want to visit a new bar every night.

 

I have to admit that I’ve preferred certain bars over others, just because I’ve always found what I wanted in those bars, and just the right amount variety that I need. Dream Boy and Boyzboyzboyz fit this to a tee. I’ve found that if these were the only two bars I would ever go to for the rest of my life, I’d be pretty content. And these two have been my staples for the longest time. But I’ve tried to branch out and have found luck every bar I go to, except maybe the ones in Sunee Plaza (small sample size, but I may have been turned off by this one bad first encounter).

 

Advantage: Bangkok

 

 

*Host Bars*

 

Bangkok

 

Bars I’ve Visited: Hot Male, Telephone, Balcony

 

Bars wish-list: Scorpion

 

Pattaya

 

Bars I’ve Visited: @home

 

Bars wish-list: all the other bars in Jomtien

 

IMG_3768.JPG

 

I define a host bar as a bar, oftentimes with an outdoor patio or component, with hot waiters and help and boys who are all, or most, offable. I’ve never really warmed to the idea of offing boys in host bars, until I went to Jomtien. And I had to have a former Jomtien star with me to get me to enjoy what Jomtien host bars had to offer. I do like the idea of a more unstructured evening compared to a show bar, and just letting the night, circumstance, and alcohol dictate what happens. All you have to be is ready for the onslaught of boys trying to get your attention.

 

In my early days of Thailand touring I went with friends, and most of them did not really go to Thailand to off anyone. Telephone Bar and Balcony were perfect for my friends, with relatively cheap drinks and a less “sleazy” atmosphere. There is nothing wrong with sleaze, by the way, and I enjoy that way more than my friends, who were only interested in drinking and talking and soaking up the Soi 4 atmosphere, before a night out at DJ.

 

So for a sex tourist, if host bars are your thing, Jomtien is the undisputed king. Hot Male 2 and Scoripon and Banana are all fun as well, but the freewheeling atmosphere of Jomtien really puts it head and shoulders above the rest.

 

Advantage: Pattaya

 

 

*Gay Clubs*

 

Bangkok: DJ Station, Fake Club, Celebrity Club

 

Pattaya:

 

Bars I’ve Visited: none

 

Bars wish-list: NAB, The Venue

 

IMG_3765.JPG

 

DJ Station seems to be the gold standard of all Thailand “traditional” gay clubs. I’ve seen a lot of reviews on Travelgayasia comparing other Thai clubs to DJ. Perhaps because DJ is the most western of all gay clubs in Thailand. Fake, Celebrity and NAB have an added Thai flair to them, which is a big plus for me, the hardened sex tourist that I am. But if you’re new or still crave for the comfort of more western trappings, or if you like to check out the hot Asian tourists who consider DJ to be a pilgrimage site, this is the club for you.

 

Since I’ve been dating BurBoy, I have been a frequent visitor of Fake Club, and to a lesser extent, Celebrity Club. The combo ‘dance club – beer bar – show bar – boy bar’ model is something else, and sometimes is an assault to the senses. But for a once in a trip thing, Fake and Celebrity are musts in every gay tourist itinerary. This is why, all this time, I have regretted being able to check out NAB Men’s Club in Pattaya, especially since my favorite Pattaya AirBNB condo is only a few blocks away from it.

 

Advantage: Bangkok

 

 

*Gay Massage and Gay Saunas*

 

Bangkok: Arena three times, Babylon twice.

 

Pattaya: Narcissus once. Never been in a Pattaya sauna.

 

arena.jpeg

 

I am severely lacking in this sex tourist experience, and probably will have to wait a few more years before I am ready to fully experience the massage and sauna scenes. But my few visits to Arena and Babylon held so much promise. My one Pattaya massage experience was hot, although the masseur was hell-bent in topping me, which made for a relaxing massage experience for me. But it was hot seeing him cum though.

 

Advantage: maybe Bangkok? Too small sample size.

 

 

*Gay Districts*

 

Bangkok: Soi Twilight, Silom Soi 4

 

Pattaya: Boyztown, Jomtien Complex, Sunee Plaza, Dongtan Beach

 

images.png

 

Talk about one stop shopping. Pattaya seems to have the variety you need if you want to taste a wide breadth of experiences in a short amount of time. Boyztown is for gogos, Jomtien is for hosts, Sunee is for sleaze, and Dongtan is for your quick beach fix. Bangkok, for all its advantages, can’t boast this kind of gay entertainment variety.

 

Advantage: Pattaya

 

 

*Gay Apps Choices*

 

grindr1.jpg

 

I’ve been able to find both free sex and paid sex in both cities with good success, but one city trumps the other clearly, more or less depending on what I am in the mood to look for. If I need free sex with a hot guy, I’ve had more luck finding it in Bangkok than Pattaya. There are more people in Thailand in general, so the numbers are in your favor. My favorite Thai free boy encounter is here, but I also have had luck with non-Thai free boys like this one wild Viet guy. In general I’ve always had cute free boys in Bangkok hit me up every trip. While this is fun, this is not why I go to Thailand. If I wanted free boys I would just stay home.

 

But I think if you are looking for cheap paid sex on the gay apps, Pattaya wins over Bangkok. I’ve found that ratio of paid boys vs free boys in the apps are higher in Pattaya than Bangkok, and because of this supply vs demand disparity, the prices in the apps tend to be cheaper. In Pattaya, the minute I open my gay apps, there will be a deluge of money boys messaging me, with short time fees averaging 1000 baht, and even 500 baht for the really desperate. Again, much like with free boys, this could be fun, but I am more interested in the whole experience (bars! offing! drinks!), that just cheap sex.

 

So it came down to the numbers, and counting the number of successful encounters I’ve had using gay apps in the Thailand, I would have to go with Bangkok. All my Bangkok encounters were with free boys, and they have run the gamut of nationalities as well. So Bangkok wins, by a (non-surgically enhanced) nose.

 

Advantage: Depends on what you want, but slight edge to Bangkok

 

 

*Other factors that may or may not be important to you*

 

*Culture*

 

IMG_3767.JPG

 

One city really stands out in this regard by a mile. The gogo shows don’t start till 10:30 PM, and the massage places don’t really get going till the afternoon, so what is there to do in the hours you’re not fucking or getting molested? Bangkok is a world-class city, so pretty much everything else you need is here. Museums, temples, landmarks, boat experiences, classes, the list goes on and on for Bangkok. Pattaya? Well, since it is a manufactured town-sized brothel masquerading as a beach resort, culture is not exactly its strongest suit. It is the Las Vegas of Thai cities, lots of pleasure and flash, and not much else.  Advantage: Bangkok

 

*Shopping*

 

IMG_3770.JPG

 

Read any Thailand tour book  or travel website, and you will see the names “Chatuchak Market”, “Siam Paragon”, “MBK”, “Terminal 21” etc., constantly being touted. And for good reason. Bangkok has the shopping advantage. Pattaya? It has malls, and shops, and Tuk Com, but for me, nothing special.  Advantage: Bangkok

 

*Ease of Access*

 

IMG_3769.JPG

 

I feel that this comparison is a non-starter already, since Bangkok owns the two big airports, and is only a 30-45 minute taxi cab away, or a train (or two) ride away from the airports. With Pattaya you would have to get a car service (my preference), or a bus from the airport, which would take you about an hour and half to two hours or more. So if you don't want to waste any time to get to your destination and start your sex tour, Bangkok would probably be your best bet.

 

But it is actually is more than just the cities’ proximity to the airport. Bangkok has a developed public transportation infrastructure (BTS, MRT, bus service) than Pattaya’s paltry offerings (Songtheaws), not to mention the fun ferry rides across the river. Of course Pattaya is much much smaller than Bangkok, so often times having this variety in transportation does not matter, especially if your world just revolves around staying put in the gay ghettos, but if you’re like me and would like to venture out, often and always, then Bangkok does offer a lot more variety.

 

Advantage: Bangkok

 

*Cost*

 

66053041-pattaya-thailand--22-nov-2016-money-exchange-shop-on-the-corner-of-a-street-in-pattaya-thailand.jpg

 

So let’s say you’re the average Joe Sex Tourist, on a fixed income due to retirement, or working an average job, saving pennies for your vacation, earmarking all your money for off fees, and have little extra for fancy food or shopping or elaborate tours, where would you go? I’d say hands down, Pattaya would be your bet. I’ve found that decent accommodation is cheaper there than Bangkok, and the food, transportation and entertainment is generally cheaper, and of course the short time and long time fees are generally lower than what I see in Bangkok.

 

And I can certainly see the appeal in just focusing on Pattaya if youre trying to save money. The city is way smaller so there generally way less stuff to do, so there is less temptation to spend more. It is your hard-earned money after all, so the more money you can spend on the boys, which is the number one reason you are in Thailand, then Pattaya would probably give you the most bang for your buck. You can certainly have a frugal existence in Bangkok as well, but if you’re like me and have no impulse control when it comes to spending, I’d probably prefer Pattaya if I want to curb the dollars just coming out of my ass.

 

Advantage: Pattaya

 

package_1081_Bangkok-pattaya-MAIN.jpg

 

Numazu's Winner: Bangkok probably, but really, who cares? It ultimately comes down to what you are mainly looking for. So if you're like me, you would love to have a mix of both worlds to get the whole Thai Sex Tourist experience. We are spoiled for choice in Thailand, and it's almost a crime to not take full advantage of what these two cities have to offer. And in this contest between Bangkok vs. Pattaya, everyone wins

 

This is a great comparison that should be posted and pinned somewhere..

[GWMinUS]

This is a great comparison that should be posted and pinned somewhere..

 

Yes, but you do not have to Post his entire message a second time.

[Guest]

Number of members have suggested pinning the above.  We will not do that.

 

First of all it is one mans opinion . Others may have different opinions . Plus the facts and opinions will change over time .Should every ones opinions be pinned?

 

That is what the search function is for.  Search Bangkok vs. Pattaya and it immediately comes up.

[numazu]

Oh yeah this is solely my opinion and hardly a good guide for anyone to follow, let alone get pinned in the forum and be treated as canon. Like Scooby said, the facts, and even my opinion, will most likely change. This is a snapshot in time of where my mind is at the moment. And admittedly the reviews here of the bars are already stale, mostly having happened in 2016. 

 

Finally, personal opinion is always plagued by "small sample size bias", that is, a particular person hasn't frequented a place often enough to experience  and gauge the average amount of service an establishment can deliver. I would like to believe my one, statistically insignificant visit to Sunee Plaza is nowhere near what the average person might experience. I'd like to go back (multiple times I hope) to see if I was just extremely unlucky that time.

 

I'll be in Bangkok in the next few weeks and if there is anything exciting that happens in my stay, I'll write up a new trip report. But right now, the outlook is not good, as I only intend in hanging out with BurBoy and not off anyone.

[vinapu]

 

 

personal opinion is always plagued by "small sample size bias", that is, a particular person hasn't frequented a place often enough to experience  and gauge the average amount of service an establishment can deliver. 

 

I'll be in Bangkok in the next few weeks and if there is anything exciting that happens in my stay, I'll write up a new trip report. But right now, the outlook is not good, as I only intend in hanging out with BurBoy and not off anyone.

"Small size bias " doesn't mean that opinion is of lesser value which boils down to weight we  place in what that  person says.

 

If one knows somebody tends to place higher value on that's person opinion than that of somebody experienced  but not known even if only from placing reports or just contributing on forums for example.

 

Few years ago i was contemplating using Raya but was put off by two or three feedbacks on booking sites that is noisy , overpriced and whatever. Than xiluzer from our forum stay there and e-mailed me that he was impressed  with everything < i followed his take and  was  so happy I did. 

 

Average  level of service at establishment  is of not much help either as all boils down to  a boy not the rest. For me personally Dreamboys BKK is prime example as one of my best and my worst off ever are coming from the same bar. At one visit  I considered almost all of perhaps 70 boys on display offable , one or two visits later I couldn't see anybody to give my customary  100 baht tip for best looking boy as it was none.

 

So we should be free to say whatever our honest  impression is  and it's up to whoever is reading it to make mind of how he will be utilizing  that information.  

 

Have fun in Bangkok and do whatever you can for us.

[ggobkk]

Last three visits have begun with two or three nights in Pattaya which with the beach is less frenetic and allows for the jet lag to ease up.  Then on to Bangkok for an immersion program - November trip is planned to repeat this pattern.

[GWMinUS]

QUOTE

"But right now, the outlook is not good, as I only intend in hanging out with BurBoy and not off anyone."

 

I hope you both have a great time together!!

[GWMinUS]

At 76 yo I have been thinking about what is important to me.

As backgroud, I will say I am married to a wonderful man here in the USA.

But our sex together is not what it used to be.

I go to the Philippines and meet young men there who LIKE older fat men!!!

And the sex is good!!

But I have decided that companionship, rather than sex, is much more satisfying to me.

I wonder how that relates to Bangkok and Pattaya??

Any guys you can meet and be with for 2 or 3 days. And not feel like is just about sex??

[a447a]

"Any guys you can meet and be with for 2 or 3 days. And not feel like is just about sex??"

 

Sure.

 

I've written a number of times about my regular guys who I spend my holidays in Thailand with. For me, the "relationship" is based on sex. - that's why I travel there - (and for him it's based on money; no surprise there), but if that were all there was between us, then I'd be playing the field every night.

 

The most important thing is communication. My Thai is hopeless so obviously these guys have enough English to enable us to talk to each other. I couldn't think of anything else that spending hours and hours with someone every day so you couldn't talk to. Once you get chatting you soon realise if he is Mr Right.

 

And through chatting you can quickly discover what you have in common. Due to the age difference, often there's not a lot, but if you're lucky, there's enough to keep the relationship going.

 

My regulars are all quite well educated and have a good general knowledge. That helps to keep the conversations interesting. Oh, and they all LOVE to talk.

 

I find that with these guys there are no requests for money - no sick grandmothers, no dead buffaloes (I've actually never heard that one), no sister involved in a car accident, etc, etc.

 

So these guys are definitely out there. The problem is finding them.

 

Good luck!

[Boy69]

I prefer companionship rather than sex too,I like to be with an interesting boy for long term with good sex but it's very hard to find the correct boy for this ,The culture and age gap is not making it easier to find someone that can be with you long term with proper communication but if you have the luck you can find the correct boy from my experience through the apps or by chance but not via the gay commercial scene (go go boys ,masseures act.) they are the worst ones ,they can be good for short time but for long term companion they are terrible unless you have a lot of money to spend on them .

[Jasper]

GWMinUS is not looking for a husband.

He is looking for a companion for 2-3 days.

Gogo boys are perfectly fine.

[a447a]

I agree. My regulars are all gogo boys.

[spoon]

Actually i think gogoboys are more suitable for companionship during your vacation as they usually dont have regular jobs, and even if they do, most of the time its flexible and they dont mind taking a leave of absence to be with you and of course earn more money than their regular jobs. With regular non-gogoboys, unless they find you attractive, its hard to see if they will leave their life to be with you. And if the want to be with you for the money, then there is no different than the gogo. Of course its easier to find gogo bar boys compared to those who are not and willing to be your companions

[ChristianPFC]

Any guys you can meet and be with for 2 or 3 days. And not feel like is just about sex??

 

I have tried many times over the years, but the odds are against me.

 

In theory yes, but in practice there are too many differences. I have been living alone for over 10 years and I don't want to compromise on the following:

 

aircon setting (27 deg C, I'm willing to negotiate +/- 1 deg),

sleep-wake pattern (mine is 24-9, recently I had a boy who told me he usually sleeps 4-14, and I can't sleep when there is someone else awake in the room),

eating habits (places, times, dishes; in 2011 I had one boy staying with me several days, he would eat at one place and would watch him eating, then we would go to another place where he would watch me eating),

sightseeing (I like temples, museums, national parks; I'm not interested in shopping malls or discos),

mode of traveling (for me walking, bus, train; for most boys taxi is the lowest acceptable mode of transport),

TV (well the TV in my room is not connected, so that problem does not arise),

even with me speaking Thai better than most boys speak English, there is little to talk about.

 

How many boys are there who are compatible?

 

Keep it at sex with fringe activities (the occasional dinner or movie before or after sex), and send them home.

[spoon]

What he wants is most likely a boyfriend experience, much like what numazu had with burboy. Similarly in real life. Its really not easy to find the one. However, some gogoboy probably great at their job and know how to provide boyfriend experience if thats what you need, of course not for free.

[a447a]

Christian wrote :

 

"I have tried many times over the years, but the odds are against me."

 

Your demands/expectations are very specific. You won't find anyone unless you are willing to compromise.

 

"Keep it at sex with fringe activities (the occasional dinner or movie before or after sex), and send them home."

 

So I guess you are suggesting here that you don't want to compromise.

[spoon]

Your demands/expectations are very specific. You won't find anyone unless you are willing to compromise.

 

"Keep it at sex with fringe activities (the occasional dinner or movie before or after sex), and send them home."

 

So I guess you are suggesting here that you don't want to compromise.

Maybe he doesnt find the one that he is willing to compromise with yet? I know i treat the boys differently based on how much i like the boy and willing to let go their may quirks that i would normally annoyed with.

[Boy69]

Sorry I didn't see that GWMinUS is looking for short time companionship for only 2-3 days ,a gogo boy will be fine for this purpose just make sure to fix the rate in advance with the boy to avoid misunderstandings.

[PeterRS]

Christian wrote :

 

"I have tried many times over the years, but the odds are against me."

 

Your demands/expectations are very specific. You won't find anyone unless you are willing to compromise.

A relationship for however long or short requires compromise on both sides. Otherwise it is merely a friendly hook up.

[ChristianPFC]

Maybe he doesnt find the one that he is willing to compromise with yet? I know i treat the boys differently based on how much i like the boy and willing to let go their may quirks that i would normally annoyed with.

There have been a few I was enamored with, they could call me any time, I would pick them up anywhere. And they can set the aircon in my room to whichever temperature they want, and sleep as long as they want, I just want to be with him.

 

But that enamoration quickly faded when I realized the feeling is not mutual. The most recent case here: http://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2017/05/dating-thai-boys-52-bfc4in2017-ton.html

 

When I pay, I don't compromise.