Bangkok Trip Report: To Butterfly or not to Butterfly Part 2 – The Devil and the Angel

[Boy69]

Hi ChristianPFC,

 

Unfrtunently I have to agree with your statement from your blog :

"And now I can draw parallels to other Thai boys. With most boys, dating is a one-way road, a black hole! All the time, commitment, money (reasonable amounts), emotional involvement I give, nothing ever comes back! They only take, they don’t give anything back!"

 

Most of the Thai boys prefer thai boys for sex/relationship, they may tolerate falangs presence only if they can benefit something from us (money,shoping act.).

[anddy]

I'll be in Bangkok in the next few weeks and if there is anything exciting that happens in my stay, I'll write up a new trip report. But right now, the outlook is not good, as I only intend in hanging out with BurBoy and not off anyone.

 

I wouldn't call this outlook "not good" - quality time with BurBoy isn't exactly a "bad" thing na!

 

Too bad I'll miss you this trip as I'm not back yet. I'm sure you'll have a great time!

[vinapu]

Most of the Thai boys prefer thai boys for sex/relationship, they may tolerate falangs presence only if they can benefit something from us (money,shoping act.).

Considering distance and  difference in age, affluence and most likely education and language barrier this should not come as surprise.

Let's face what we can offer them other than money and material goods? Chances that they will fall for us due to our internal beauty while   not unknown are rather remote.

 

I tried twice so called Quasi Boyfriend Experience , both cases reported here and it went quite well. Both had their own agenda, first one money extraction and second one long time hook-up to secure himself  future stream of income  but at least none of them was blatantly pushy and as far as companionship goes both kept their side of bargain.

 

It was  fun and entertaining but at no time neither side forget what assets is bringing into time together be it money or body. This way we avoided any antics, I was paying or telling this is too expensive, they made sure if I needed a hug they were at hand.

 

And definitely sex factor, while present all the time did not define out time together in either case to answer an original question.

 

So my advice would be , try it but never lose view  of end of it from your sight and make sure  boy knows it. Neither one of us nor boy wants broken heart and in our case broken wallet as well. 

[vinapu]

I wouldn't call this outlook "not good" - quality time with BurBoy isn't exactly a "bad" thing na!

 

 

I'm very sure that by 'outlook not good ' numazu meant satisfaction of our  appetite for his travel reports and BurBoy has nothing to do with it.

[Boy69]

Considering distance and difference in age, affluence and most likely education and language barrier this should not come as surprise.

Let's face what we can offer them other than money and material goods? Chances that they will fall for us due to our internal beauty while not unknown are rather remote.

 

I tried twice so called Quasi Boyfriend Experience , both cases reported here and it went quite well. Both had their own agenda, first one money extraction and second one long time hook-up to secure himself future stream of income but at least none of them was blatantly pushy and as far as companionship goes both kept their side of bargain.

 

It was fun and entertaining but at no time neither side forget what assets is bringing into time together be it money or body. This way we avoided any antics, I was paying or telling this is too expensive, they made sure if I needed a hug they were at hand.

 

And definitely sex factor, while present all the time did not define out time together in either case to answer an original question.

 

So my advice would be , try it but never lose view of end of it from your sight and make sure boy knows it. Neither one of us nor boy wants broken heart and in our case broken wallet as well.

Excellent

 

[a447a]

Christian wrote:

 

"When I pay, I don't compromise."

 

You are dealing with people, not objects. People have feelings, emotions, moods......the whole gamut. They are not robots. In order to get on, there must be some give and take on both sides.

 

But as you are paying, then of course it is your right not to compromise. Noone can criticise you for that.

 

I just don't think you'll ever find what you are looking for if you are not willing to be flexible in your demands.

[spoon]

Ive read your encounter with ton and it does seems he is only interested to take advantage of you, so many no show and you show great flexibility and compromise, one that i would not do. However, if the boy isnt interested, no initial sparks and chemistry, it is a pointless pursuit of love. It gets tricky when money is involve, and usually money involvements is more than just hard cold cash with non moneyboys.

[ChristianPFC]

Most of the Thai boys prefer thai boys for sex/relationship, they may tolerate falangs presence only if they can benefit something from us (money,shoping act.).

 

There are a few who are genuinely attracted to Farang and not to SEAsian, just like I am genuinely attracted to SEAsians. And some who seem to be flexible White/Asian (as long as it's cock and not pussy, well some are even flexible in that regard) but when they see a Farang they think of material advantage in addition to sex.

 

In those 5 years I have spent here, I met 3 (two Thai, one Burmese) who are interested in Farang and don't want any money. And it's not that they are rich: one Thai takes the bus because it's cheaper than taxi, the other didn't buy at Patpong night market because stuff there is too expensive; they are just as poor as all the others, but they don't have the demanding attitude that is common in Thai.

[ChristianPFC]

You are dealing with people, not objects. People have feelings, emotions, moods......the whole gamut. They are not robots. In order to get on, there must be some give and take on both sides.

 

But as you are paying, then of course it is your right not to compromise. Noone can criticise you for that.

 

I just don't think you'll ever find what you are looking for if you are not willing to be flexible in your demands.

 

I tried that many times, compromising hoping the other side would compromise as well. But as I found in http://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2017/05/dating-thai-boys-52-bfc4in2017-ton.html

 

If you read only one paragraph of this article, let it be this one:

 

And now I can draw parallels to other Thai boys. With most boys, dating is a one-way road, a black hole! All the time, commitment, money (reasonable amounts), emotional involvement I give, nothing ever comes back! They only take, they don’t give anything back!

 

As far as I read in the forums, you (a447a) hire money boys where the fronts are clear from the beginning.

 

My mistake is deluding myself that a boy goes with me for free, when all he has his mind is to gain a material advantage. I played along a few times, inviting him and his friends for dinner, buy stuff at the market, but at the end:

"My room or your room?" - "Yes, I go to my room and you go to your room."

 

The amounts of money is negligible (let's say 500 THB per case); the waste of time, well I would have done the same with another boy another time; but the feeling of being used, and falling for the same trick again (or rather testing if this boy is different from the others, which requires an outlay of money from my side, and being disappointed that he is not) is what hurts.

[Boy69]

There are a few who are genuinely attracted to Farang and not to SEAsian, just like I am genuinely attracted to SEAsians. And some who seem to be flexible White/Asian (as long as it's cock and not pussy, well some are even flexible in that regard) but when they see a Farang they think of material advantage in addition to sex.

 

In those 5 years I have spent here, I met 3 (two Thai, one Burmese) who are interested in Farang and don't want any money. And it's not that they are rich: one Thai takes the bus because it's cheaper than taxi, the other didn't buy at Patpong night market because stuff there is too expensive; they are just as poor as all the others, but they don't have the demanding attitude that is common in Thai.

In my last vacation at Phuket I did meet boy that genuinely attracted to Farangs and wants a serious long-term relationship, he works very hard between 9 to 12 hours every day and he isn't a money boy. He was 20 yo with no demanding attitude at all and poor.if I was leaving in Thailand he would be a great possibility to be my boyfriend but I can definitely say that such boys are very very rare in Thailand most of them are greedy,temperamental and unfaithful.

 

BTW why didn't you develop a serious relationship with one of this 3 boys ?

[numazu]

When I pay, I don't compromise.

 

Or your compromise is that you are paying them money, or you pay them for you not to compromise. Regardless, I do feel that for any successful encounter to work, be it a paid or free encounter, compromise is important.

 

And now I can draw parallels to other Thai boys. With most boys, dating is a one-way road, a black hole! All the time, commitment, money (reasonable amounts), emotional involvement I give, nothing ever comes back! They only take, they don’t give anything back!

 

It seems that you have been burned so many times, to the point that you have turned somewhat cynical about this whole thing. Can I ask why you still keep trying? It may be too personal a question, so you don't have to answer. We are different people of course, but I feel that if I were to date someone in Thailand (and to a certain extent, I am), that I wouldn't end up with the same cynical conclusion that you have had. I am asian tho, and non-farang, tho still a westerner.

 

Regardless, I am an eternal optimist, and I think you will find that someone that you will freely compromise for, and will compromise for you in return, and all this will have been worth it.

 

I wouldn't call this outlook "not good" - quality time with BurBoy isn't exactly a "bad" thing na!

 

Too bad I'll miss you this trip as I'm not back yet. I'm sure you'll have a great time!

 

Oh it's never a bad time, spending quality time with BurBoy. Like vinapu said, the "not good" is for the chances of writing a trip report for this trip coming up in a week. I'll have a great time for sure. Let me know when you're back. We shall catch you next time.

 

I'm very sure that by 'outlook not good ' numazu meant satisfaction of our  appetite for his travel reports and BurBoy has nothing to do with it.

 

My guide is this: if I am not offing anyone, I will not write a trip report. I feel that my noncommercial encounters are not as exciting as my offing escapades. This is why I did not write one for the 13th trip. So the only reason I wrote this one is because of MonBoy and the Korean offs. I can only hope that I will off someone this next trip, but the outlook is not good. BurBoy wants to spend quality time with me and I am more than happy to oblige.

[GWMinUS]

Thanks for the many replies to my question about a Companion.

 

I guess I am more inline with Boy69. And not inclined to search for a guy from a Go go Bar.

HOWEVER, my first trip to Bangkok I meet a wonderful guy/man at the old Tomahawk bar, across from Tawan.

We hit it off and I enjoyed meeting him on each trip for years after.

Now he is a manager at Dreamboys and his two STR8 sons work at places is Soi Twilight.

However, old Dad is looking for a younger man.

Maybe this trip I will find a new guy to spend some time for a few of my 6 days in Bangkok.

[ChristianPFC]

It seems that you have been burned so many times, to the point that you have turned somewhat cynical about this whole thing. Can I ask why you still keep trying? It may be too personal a question, so you don't have to answer. We are different people of course, but I feel that if I were to date someone in Thailand (and to a certain extent, I am), that I wouldn't end up with the same cynical conclusion that you have had. I am asian tho, and non-farang, tho still a westerner.

 

Regardless, I am an eternal optimist, and I think you will find that someone that you will freely compromise for, and will compromise for you in return, and all this will have been worth it.

 

The answer is here http://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2017/05/gay-activities-apr-2017.html

 

So why do I keep doing this? Do you remember cathode ray tube TVs and monitors? These heavy, bulky, misshapen devices (not only do they need a lot of area, their top usually has a shape that you can’t put anything on top, losing the space above) with poor resolution? Now mostly replaced by flat screens. But about 50 years long, these CRT have the state of the art! And that’s my situation, there must be a better way, but I don’t know how.

 

I am cursed with being sexually attracted to slim, brown skinned boys without body hair (not just SEAsians, Blacks and to a certain extent Indians and Sri Lankans as well).

[vinapu]

 

I am cursed with being sexually attracted to slim, brown skinned boys without body hair 

you mean blessed  not cursed ? Surprised you of all people are in such a loss of words

[ChristianPFC]

I really mean cursed. There is no other explanation for my dating fails.

 

If we leave love out and just talk about sex: I'm attracted to straight boys, half my age (will get worse as I get older), quarter around the world, of a different culture and language.

 

 

Translation: My love life. I'm the one in blue.

[bobsaigon]

Thanks Christian.  Nice to have further proof that you DO have a sense of humor.

[williewillie]

Some farangs are 'cursed'.

[GWMinUS]

The answer is here http://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2017/05/gay-activities-apr-2017.html

 

 

I am cursed with being sexually attracted to slim, brown skinned boys without body hair (not just SEAsians, Blacks and to a certain extent Indians and Sri Lankans as well).

 

Christian, that is not a Curse. It is a Joy!! Nothing hotter than touching the beautiful brown skin of a young man!!

[Jasper]

Thanks Christian for a good laugh.

I don't think you are cursed.

If you weren't attracted to Asian young guys and stayed at your home country you probably would have found similar difficulties in searching for a partner half of your age even with your own nationality.

Were you romantically interested in over 30 years old guy when you were early 20's? Of course not. I thought they were ancient and boring when I was 18-22 and wouldn't have considered dating if he couldn't offered me some kind of materialistic benefits. I think you are too harsh on Thais.

[vinapu]

 Nothing hotter than touching the beautiful brown skin of a young man!!

yes it is - touching beautiful brown skin of two young men

[vinapu]

Thanks Christian for a good laugh.

I don't think you are cursed.

....

I think you are too harsh on Thais.

He just says that , I'm very sure he loves all of them, otherwise what he would be doing there all those years taking even pains to learn language. I'm sure he did not do that just to read labels in museums and ads on BTS

[reader]

I have to defer to Christian on many issues for several reasons:

• He has lived virtually full-time in Bangkok for about four years
• He reads and speaks Thai
• He's probably traveled more about the country than any other non-Thai member
• He's a keen observer with a practiced eye for detail

This has enabled him to acquire a much more nuanced view than the occasional visitor.  That doesn't mean I necessarily agree with him on all issues but I have much respect for his positions on matters of mutual interest.

 

For those of us who don't understand the spoken language, he's able to eavesdrop on converstaions wherever he finds himself.  If I could understand Thai, I'm sure it would indeed influence my experiences.  I'm free to interpret the sounds I can't translate in a manner that fits my mood, intentions and desires.

 

Ignorance can be bliss....especially when it comes to matters of sex.
 

[Creditisdue]

Numazu,

 

It’s been a while since your last trip report. When are you going to post again? Hopefully you are in bkk now for the white party?

[paulsf]

He is not in Bangkok and won’t be posting.

[bucknaway]

That's too bad, His postings were like candy for the mind.

 

 

 

He is not in Bangkok and won’t be posting.