How will Thailand following Taiwan in gay marriage affect us?

[steveboy]

Hours ago the Taiwan supreme court ruled in favor of same-sex marriage.

It seems predictable that Thailand will follow sooner or later.

 

I rejoice at the news of the rights of homosexuals being increasingly recognized in the world, and I wish the Taiwan gays the most loving and hot marriages.

 

But I cannot but think what will be the consequence for us gays who are at a stage in life beyond this "marriage" emotional roller coaster....

 

Each gay marriage may take two delightful gay boys... out of circulation, especially if the married gays fall for this nonsense of "fidelity"...

 

I try to remain positive and wish for gays to be smart and wait to get married until unclehood or later, and take advantage of the freedoms of being young and single before having to be restrained to the state of monogamy.

[Guest DThump]

There is no reason for Thailand to follow Taiwan....so don't lose sleep over it.

[a447a]

Different countries, different cultures, different way of thinking.

 

I also can't see Thailand necessarily following what Taiwan has done.

 

As for "fidelity" I think gays are rather promiscuous - sorry, I know that's a gross generalisation, but it's what I have observed - and many couples will have an "open" relationship.

 

That is, they will fuck anything that stands still long enough. Lol

[PeterRS]

Agree with DThump. Thailand is highly unlikely to follow Taiwan for a long time. Thai society as a whole is just too conservative and the LGBTQ community is way too fragmented. In Taiwan it has been very well organized for many years.

[steveboy]

Different countries, different cultures, different way of thinking.

 

I also can't see Thailand necessarily following what Taiwan has done.

 

As for "fidelity" I think gays are rather promiscuous - sorry, I know that's a gross generalisation, but it's what I have observed - and many couples will have an "open" relationship.

 

That is, they will fuck anything that stands still long enough. Lol

 

I know, ... I was thinking in philosophical terms...

 

As for gays being rather promiscuous, straights would be equally promiscuous or more if society would hot have enshrined them in a bond of sanctimonious devotion to the vulnerable wife and... and the children, blah, blah, blah. Society did not equally enshrined the gays because we are supposed to be abominable sinners beyond salvation anyway,  But now that there is marriage equality, we lose the excuse that we cannot form marital bonds.  But we still have the advantage that there is no strong sex that need to protect the weak one,  we can be both be promiscuously weak  

 

About the particular cultures,  two highly traditional Catholic countries come to mind: Argentina (the Pope is from there) and Mexico.  Yet they both have same-sex marriage!

[a447a]

Thank God there aren't people who view Asia as an easily rubber-stamped, single entity whose occupants dispense a "distinctly Asian point of view".

 

It would appear that there are, indeed, differing viewpoints throughout Asia.

 

Eh, sgdad?

[PeterRS]

Hong Kong might be another good candidate.

I reckon its highly unlikely Hong Kong will enact any such legislation without Beijings tacit approval. And how likely is that as long as gays in China are still subject to official harassment from time to time?

[a447a]

Hong Kong will probably have to wait until Beijing legalises gay marriage before they can move.

 

So, which Asian country will follow Taiwan?

 

Cambodia is my guess.

[steveboy]

Vietnam is close to giving equality to same-sex marriages.

[Vessey]

Married or not they will still need money and, as now, some will use their bodies to obtain it,

 

Plenty of the 'working' lads currently in 'relationships' with each other - open or otherwise,

 

But if it is a cloud on the horizon - the silver lining might just be an increase in the 'threesome' opportunities available? haha

[a447a]

Ah, vessey. Forever the optimist! Lol

[steveboy]

But if it is a cloud on the horizon - the silver lining might just be an increase in the 'threesome' opportunities available? haha

 

I second your optimism!  Threesome and even multi-some!

[PeterRS]

Vietnam is close to giving equality to same-sex marriages.

Vietnam has already passed a law lifting a ban on gay marriage. Same sex unions are now legally permitted but the government has stalled on the provision of equal rights and legal protection in the case of dispute. Perhaps the taiwan decision may help the government to move further.

[PeterRS]

This TIME magazine article is not so recent but it highlights one of the problems for gay venues in China. If followed a police raid on a new gay bar in Shanghai. 

 

Early Sunday morning, police stormed into Q Bar in the middle of a gogo boy performance, turned the lights on, and shoved about 70 bar employees and patrons (save the foreigners) batch by batch into a minivan that whittled them away to the Xiaodongmen police station, just a stone’s throw away from the bar.

 

At the station, they were locked up in three rooms, where they were left in the cold without food or water, unattended to and uninformed of what was happening next. It was not until noon the next day when questioning began, and police attempted to make them sign off on statements that were in some instances contrary to what they had said.

The article makes this point about organised gay life in China. I dont think much has changed since then.

 

Big cities like Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou have vibrant gay scenes that operate with minimal official interference — until they don’t. The state’s approach is sometimes called the Triple No Policy: no approval, no disapproval, no promotion. It’s a deliberately opaque stance that leaves much open to interpretation.  As I reported in 2008, China’s first-ever gay pride event, in Shanghai, started off strong but was interrupted mid-week when cops showed up at a literary event. Later, venues were shuttered without warning or explanation.

http://world.time.com/2011/04/06/party-police-cops-raid-gay-bar-in-shanghai/

[Guest ryanasia]

Thailand won't follow it. Taiwan is a little bit more progressive. 

[steveboy]

Thailand won't follow it. Taiwan is a little bit more progressive. 

 

Mexico has been caught in the moral jaws of the Catholic Church since its existence,  Mexican men are known "machistas" and "faggot" is a serious insult.  Yet, you can get married same-sex in the capital,  Mexico City. 

[Guest ryanasia]

Thailand wants brothels not churches.

[steveboy]

Thailand wants brothels not churches.

 

Thailand wants temples not churches.

[bobsaigon]

PeterRS:  You say that Vietnam has already passed a law lifting a ban on gay marriage.   I would be grateful to know your source of this information.   I've been living in Vietnam for 17 years and have not heard the news.    

 

What is allowed:  couples can hold a wedding reception, which they were not allowed to do before, and they can put both names on the official Household Registration, but as far as I know, that's it.  They are not allowed to officially register as a married couple so there is no marriage certificate.

[faranglaw]

If two Thai gay men get married, the probably werent "circulating" in your pool to begin with, so I wouldn't worry about their being take out of circulation.

[steveboy]

If two Thai gay men get married, the probably werent "circulating" in your pool to begin with, so I wouldn't worry about their being take out of circulation.

 

You are right.  And after marriage, if they choose the right relationship, they won't get out of circulation either.

[PeterRS]

PeterRS:  You say that Vietnam has already passed a law lifting a ban on gay marriage.   I would be grateful to know your source of this information.   I've been living in Vietnam for 17 years and have not heard the news.    

 

What is allowed:  couples can hold a wedding reception, which they were not allowed to do before, and they can put both names on the official Household Registration, but as far as I know, that's it.  They are not allowed to officially register as a married couple so there is no marriage certificate.

 

There was a great deal of publicity about the lifting of the ban on gay marriage in 2015. At the same time, I did point out in my post the parliament has stalled on full rights as with straight couples. 

 

Vietnam was hailed as a leader on gay rights in Southeast Asia after the country’s communist government abolished a ban on same-sex marriage last year. But discrimination and bullying still afflict lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) youth in the country according to local media.

 

Same-sex couples in Vietnam began planning wedding ceremonies, Bloomberg reported, after a law came into force on New Year’s Day 2015 removing legal prohibition on marriages between people of the same sex ...

 

Although same-sex marriage is permitted in Vietnam, lawmakers have not granted full recognition to the unions, which do not provide legal protections for spouses.

http://time.com/4184240/same-sex-gay-lgbt-marriage-ban-lifted-vietnam/

[bobsaigon]

As you say, it was reported that the ban was lifted in 2015, but I have yet to hear of a single couple who have been permitted to get a marriage certificate.  I and my Vietnamese partner do follow the developments in this matter and if such a union were permitted, it would be widely reported in the local media.   So, whatever we read about same sex marriage being permitted, there is still that missing piece of paper.   Lifting a ban on same sex marriage, while denying the same sex couple the opportunity to register their marriage, does not provide an example of marriage equality.

 

And, it is still not possible for a foreigner in Vietnam to officially marry a Vietnamese citizen and thus he could not act as sponsor for the Vietnamese partner's immigration to the US, an option that would be possible if the couple married in Taiwan (assuming Taiwan's recent law embraces foreign/local unions). 

 

Also, I wonder about the role of the common understanding of "marriage" in Vietnam.  If a couple is allowed to hold a wedding reception  followed by officially sanctioned co-habitation, perhaps that is the extent of the same sex marriage ban being "lifted". In Vietnam, any couple, gay or straight, who appear as a couple are considered to be married and no one asks to see the marriage certificate.  That may meet the parliamentarians' interpretation of lifting the ban.

[Alexx]

Sounds like nonsense to me. The average white foreigner who lives in Thailand doesn't strike me as very religious. "Nominally Christian" maybe, but I don't see them spreading the gospel.

[steveboy]

Fortunately for them and for us, Thailand is the most Buddhist country in the world, with nearly 93% of the population being Buddhist.  I wish it were 100%.  

 

Hopefully the Thai are too smart to fall for the Christian proselytizing, and the foreign visitors and expatriates are too busy with the attractions of the place which come from the kind attitude of the Buddhist population. And, who knows, many foreigners in Thailand may be happy to escape the pressures of sanctimonious religions like Christianity and Islam.