Gay marriage observations

[Guest ryanasia]

This is not specific to Thailand but I include it in this forum because I submitted my application to bring my husband home to the USA in Bangkok today.

 

So as some people may know I went back to the USA in a small town in America that allows gay marriage. So when I am there marriage is important and I put on Facebook I am getting married and need a wedding officiant. With in an hour the news had gone around Des Moines and I had almost every liberal preacher in the state volunteering to do it.

 

Here is my problem... I have been away living in the virtual wilderness so long that the last time I had been to America there were sodomy laws. Now men in the cloth are volunteering to do it and as I was married in a public park people showed up, 

 

Now instead of hiding your love for another man you have to prove your love in a public venue. The news in a small town of the gays getting married got out and almost turned into a Trump protest. I said I don't want my wedding to push any political agenda. You would think Iowa is conservative but it is actually easier to be gay than it is to be moderate.

 

In the 20 years I have been gone it went from not saying anything about who you love to having to make a public spectacle of yourself by kissing a man in front of the viewing public. 

 

It almost felt like I should tap dance for them as well. 

 

Do you take this man to be your husband? Really? no fucking shit, you ask me after 20 years? You can now kiss your husband. Really? After years of making me ashamed of it, you now insist I do it  in front of an audience? 

 

Marriage is all fine and well but the way they expect me to embrace it as if it is normal has left me a bit shell shocked. Like a stepped in a puddle and now my pants have just dried. 

 

Fast forward to the embassy today. They need me to submit affidavits of support and prove I can support my husband. I guess because for the past 18 years or so since you didn't acknowledge my human rights, I had no choice but to stay away. I had to prove I am a resident in Thailand to file this side and am married. sure it is standard for straight marriages but I didn't have those options available to me a couple of years ago.

 

I just bought a house in the USA and now i have to come back to Thailand just to file this fucking bullshit piece of shit paper? Prove I have a house in the USA and also prove residence here or it will take up to a year. I am lucky I  could prove residence here it will take up to 5 months. 

 

 

Acceptance is great and I am becoming used to it. However when you have been away awhile it feels sometimes like being invited to a KKK party when you are the groom at an inter-racial marriage.

 

Everybody says it's cool but you are looking around a little uncertain. 

 

A weird consequence of all of this is that if I move to a small town I can not remain in the closet, for better or worse. This used to be a useful tool to come out at your discretion. Now if you want insurance or anything official they will ask about marriage. i don't disagree with any of that but it can be a bit of a shock to have to be consistently out if you were wary of doing so when you left.

 

So now I have the embassy scrutinizing if I can afford to go home after 20 years and every red neck in town knows I am gay because the insurance lady gossips. 

 

It will be a bit of an adjustment I suppose. Sorry for the lengthy post but it just drips of hypocrisy.  

 

That's my rant and latest experience of it all.

 

 

[Jasper]

Congratulations and good luck!

[NIrishGuy]

After reading your post I'm still not sure what your complaint is ?  You wanted to get married, you can now get married. You wanted acceptance, people accept you. And the problem is ??    And this from a guy who made porn apparently and so I assume couldn't give a shit what anyone thinks of them anyway  - so why the need or desire to stay in the closet in the first place ?  Surely  just be out ( as I presume you are anyway), be married and be happy ( or if you've married the wrong guy be grumpy, but hey that's the same deal as the straights have had for years so we wanted equality  - it seems you've got it.   Smile and get on with life now perhaps an stop giving a shit about others and what they think.

[GWMinUS]

Two years ago, I married my Partner of 48 years. So now we have been together for 50 years.

We had a simple Wedding before a District Court Judge.

He even had his Assistance be the Witness. No "public" ceremony , no pic in the local newspaper.

No problems with being OUT. He and I have been out since a long long time ago.

And being Married has some significant advantages, regarding taxes, property, and even insurance.

So I hope you find the effort there in Bangkok to be worth it.

Just hang in there...

[steveboy]

After reading your post I'm still not sure what your complaint is ?  You wanted to get married, you can now get married. You wanted acceptance, people accept you. And the problem is ??    And this from a guy who made porn apparently and so I assume couldn't give a shit what anyone thinks of them anyway  - so why the need or desire to stay in the closet in the first place ?  Surely  just be out ( as I presume you are anyway), be married and be happy ( or if you've married the wrong guy be grumpy, but hey that's the same deal as the straights have had for years so we wanted equality  - it seems you've got it.   Smile and get on with life now perhaps an stop giving a shit about others and what they think.

 

LOL!  I also could not understand what Ryanasia was ranting about when I read his post.  He seems to be miserable because he is accepted now, can marry now, and people think his marriage is normal now.  With his attitude, better that he never wins a lottery because he would commit suicide then...

[Guest ryanasia]

After reading your post I'm still not sure what your complaint is ?  You wanted to get married, you can now get married. You wanted acceptance, people accept you. And the problem is ??    And this from a guy who made porn apparently and so I assume couldn't give a shit what anyone thinks of them anyway  - so why the need or desire to stay in the closet in the first place ?  Surely  just be out ( as I presume you are anyway), be married and be happy ( or if you've married the wrong guy be grumpy, but hey that's the same deal as the straights have had for years so we wanted equality  - it seems you've got it.   Smile and get on with life now perhaps an stop giving a shit about others and what they think.

 

When did I ever say i made porn? Also if you look at the thread title it is just my observations. I know things have changed and just expressed my experiences about how it can be somewhat surreal at times. I have never been in the closet. My observation was that this is not really an option anymore. That is the distinction. 

 

My only really issue is once it wasn't allowed and now it is full conformity. I would have preferred to have a civil union and not have to be required to show immigration pictures of a wedding in order to be validated. If you can not tell that much of what I wrote was meant to be ironic or humorous that's on you.

[Guest ryanasia]

LOL!  I also could not understand what Ryanasia was ranting about when I read his post.  He seems to be miserable because he is accepted now, can marry now, and people think his marriage is normal now.  With his attitude, better that he never wins a lottery because he would commit suicide then...

 

I am not angry or anything. It is just a tad ironic that the 'sanctity' of marriage is now a necessity for basic human rights. Before straight people said gay people shouldn't force special rights for gays down their throats. Now it seems the government needs a piece of the action. It is just funny is all. 

 

I guess they need the revenue.

[Guest ryanasia]

Two years ago, I married my Partner of 48 years. So now we have been together for 50 years.

We had a simple Wedding before a District Court Judge.

He even had his Assistance be the Witness. No "public" ceremony , no pic in the local newspaper.

No problems with being OUT. He and I have been out since a long long time ago.

And being Married has some significant advantages, regarding taxes, property, and even insurance.

So I hope you find the effort there in Bangkok to be worth it.

Just hang in there...

 

Thanks for the kind words. Were you sponsoring your husband for a visa at the time you went with a basic filing? Because I was told to provide at least half a dozen pics of our wedding to show the embassy. That was my lawyers advice and not a necessity perhaps but it was made clear things would be smoother if I did.  I don't think people are making the connection about the immigration aspect of this. If it weren't for that I would not have cared had  the pantsuits  shown up burning effigies of Trump in the park. 

----------------------------------------------------------------

It sort of bothers me that I had to use the religious ceremony of marriage and could not sponsor a visa based upon a civil union. The funny thing is that a straight couple sued in the UK over discrimination because civil unions only have recognition for gay people there. Don't remember the details but it seems some straight people feel like they do not wish to engage in religious ceremonies to be able to instate their rights as well.

 

So before people crucify me for not being appreciative of the rights gays have recently obtained think of my right not to have to photograph a show in a park and make a spectacle for the hoops immigration requires. Filing of a civil union with no ceremony should be enough to sponsor a visa. 

 

Instead I had a priest in full robes in a public park just for photos ops of a wedding to prove we are legit. The priest said he normally wears a suit but we agreed that the robes looked more official. So it felt a little bit like if gays can not be defeated we should be as much as possible assimilated. 

 

If some people do not understand why one who isn't normally in the closet wouldn't want to be publicly outed for banking and insurance purposes you need to rethink your position. Hate crimes still do happen in small town America. 

[steveboy]

I am not angry or anything. It is just a tad ironic that the 'sanctity' of marriage is now a necessity for basic human rights. Before straight people said gay people shouldn't force special rights for gays down their throats. Now it seems the government needs a piece of the action. It is just funny is all. 

 

I guess they need the revenue.

 

I understand.  It is mind baffling to experience a burst of social justice.  One thinks "shouldn't it always have been this way"?

I hope to see soon in the US another jump in social justice:  the legalization of so many "illegals".  This may become possible after we get rid of the current American dictatorship and its excesses.

[sglad]

Two years ago, I married my Partner of 48 years. So now we have been together for 50 years.

We had a simple Wedding before a District Court Judge.

He even had his Assistance be the Witness. No "public" ceremony , no pic in the local newspaper.

No problems with being OUT. He and I have been out since a long long time ago.

And being Married has some significant advantages, regarding taxes, property, and even insurance.

 

Happy Golden Anniversary!  Thanks for sharing.

[NIrishGuy]

Ryanasia - firstly my apologies as it appears I for some reason got you confused with the poster " ask a money boy anything" ( or something like that) -  ha why, I have NO idea, but that's who I was thinking about and he ( claimed to be in his 30's etc I think hence why I was querying "his" annoyance at the whole outing thing.  But as that's NOT you and it seems you haven't made porn ( I presume anyway and not that there would be anything wrong with that in my book anyway) and as I see you're a bit older then I totally get your point now as to how you're pissed having to jump through hoops you didn't feel you had to before. I get that now - again apologies re that.

 

Although ( and not to start that ball rolling again :-) ) but I'm still genuinely scratching my head as are you saying that the authorities wouldn't accept your normal civil partnership / gay marriage as "fact" without some pics showing the full works in progress even though you had the correct paperwork etc-  surely not !?  And I'm not doubting your work there by the way, more just as amazed / pissed off as you are if that is the case ?

[Guest ryanasia]

Okay thanks for clarifying that. The other guy that made porn is still coming to kill you and if conditions are right film it.

[GWMinUS]

Ryanasia,

I also need to apologize. My Partner and I were both American Citizens.

I can now understand why you are so upset by the requirements of US Immigrations.

Public wedding photos do seem extreme to prove you wedded to your long time BF.

I wonder if just a Wedding Certificate filed with the local County Clerk would not be sufficient.

That is the Document we have to proved we are Husband and Husband.

In any case, I am very interested in how you are proceeding to bring your BF to the US.

And good luck!!

[Alexx]

Ryan, I agree 100% on the conformity aspect, it's quite mind boggling when you stop to think about it. I hope the immigration/visa process will go well for you and your husband.

[Guest ryanasia]

Ryanasia - firstly my apologies as it appears I for some reason got you confused with the poster " ask a money boy anything" ( or something like that) -  ha why, I have NO idea, but that's who I was thinking about and he ( claimed to be in his 30's etc I think hence why I was querying "his" annoyance at the whole outing thing.  But as that's NOT you and it seems you haven't made porn ( I presume anyway and not that there would be anything wrong with that in my book anyway) and as I see you're a bit older then I totally get your point now as to how you're pissed having to jump through hoops you didn't feel you had to before. I get that now - again apologies re that.

 

Although ( and not to start that ball rolling again :-) ) but I'm still genuinely scratching my head as are you saying that the authorities wouldn't accept your normal civil partnership / gay marriage as "fact" without some pics showing the full works in progress even though you had the correct paperwork etc-  surely not !?  And I'm not doubting your work there by the way, more just as amazed / pissed off as you are if that is the case ?

 

You aren't confusing me I am the same guy. I just never made porn. I am saying there was pressure to show a wedding to the embassy. Not sure why you don't get that civil union doesn't work and marriage is a legal requirement. 

 

My lawyer advised me things would be better if I showed pics from a wedding. Not sure why you are confused as to why I kind of resent being sort of pressured into setting all of that up?

[Guest ryanasia]

 

Ryanasia,

I also need to apologize. My Partner and I were both American Citizens.

I can now understand why you are so upset by the requirements of US Immigrations.

Public wedding photos do seem extreme to prove you wedded to your long time BF.

I wonder if just a Wedding Certificate filed with the local County Clerk would not be sufficient.

That is the Document we have to proved we are Husband and Husband.

In any case, I am very interested in how you are proceeding to bring your BF to the US.

And good luck!!

 

It might have been enough but obviously I don't want to take the chance it isn't sufficient. I acted on the instructions of my lawyer and the advice of the pastor. The pastor himself is also a Brit who immigrated to the USA.

 

Bare in mind rejection of my application costs $530 just to begin with for the processing fee and if it takes me another 6 months to re-apply that runs into tens of thousands of dollars in my current situation. So I had to do whatever was necessary.

[sglad]

What a palava.  Congratulations on your wedding andI hope everything works out for you and your partner.

[Guest ronnie4you]

LOL!  I also could not understand what Ryanasia was ranting about when I read his post.  He seems to be miserable because he is accepted now, can marry now, and people think his marriage is normal now.  With his attitude, better that he never wins a lottery because he would commit suicide then...

Apropos to the discussion on whether you are a critic or just mean, this post would support the latter. Which isn't to say that you are always mean, just enough to have that edge to your criticism. This post of course is only criticism (of the kind you invited

[Guest ronnie4you]

When I posted the above, I wasn't aware that ryanasia had been banned. Yet my point remains. For the record, I enjoyed ryanasia's posts and do not think he should be banned. His stories of life as a moneyboy alone are a major contribution to this site.

[steveboy]

When I posted the above, I wasn't aware that ryanasia had been banned. Yet my point remains. For the record, I enjoyed ryanasia's posts and do not think he should be banned. His stories of life as a moneyboy alone are a major contribution to this site.

 

Ryanasia was banned ???  Why ??? I didn't notice fault in him, but one never knows...

 

 

Apropos to the discussion on whether you are a critic or just mean, this post would support the latter. Which isn't to say that you are always mean, just enough to have that edge to your criticism. This post of course is only criticism (of the kind you invited

 

I don't find your post mean, just mistaken. You seem to be too sensitive or you have some subconscious grudge because of feelings that I stepped on the toes of someone you care for.

 

The gains we gays have made in the US are unprecedented. I could not imagine any negativity in them.  I was empathizing with a similar post NirishGuy made about the negative outlook of Ryanasia, seeing the dark side of something that was predominantly positive.  And my even humorous message to him was to bring his attention to the excessive negativity (and not commit suicide if winning the lottery).  It is unfortunate that you were inclined to dig for some meanness in it.  I hope you don't find my explaining response mean...