Vietnamese Boys

[Guest]

There we go again. Thailand the Land of Scams. You have to wonder why anyone visits the country and especially why anyone would constantly keep coming back??

As far as I can see, the thread has been objective, factual & balanced up until this point.

 

Christian has shared his experience of 2 Vietnamese money boys in Bangkok, whilst carefully balancing his post up with a more positive example of other Vietnamese boys. 

 

What justifies such a hostile response ?

[firecat69]

Try reading his post before you castigate me. 

 

. (Just like the many scams that are running in Thailand, a small one-time gain for one person, but a huge loss for the entire country.)

 

Not the first time he has said that and my response just pointed that out and only you could consider that hostile. Not the first time he referred to Thailand as the Land of Scams. I don't think it is and it is perfectly reasonable for me to ask why he keeps returning to such a place?

[steveboy]

Well at least in Thailand you get scammed with a smile. That alone beats other countries.

 

True.  I think Christian is right. And few societies scam in such kind ways...

 

Among countries maybe the Vatican takes first place:  kindly give your money to God (read: us) and you will be blessed in the afterlife.

[a447a]

I've lost count of the countries I've visited over the years, and when it comes to dishonesty Vietnam takes the cake. I've been there twice and faced scams from the time I got up to the time I went to bed. Every fucking day!

 

In Thailand and other countries you often are unaware that you are being conned. But in Vietnam they are not only blatant - the scams are the same no matter where you go.

 

They are experts!

[DivineMadman]

 

Christian has shared his experience of 2 Vietnamese money boys in Bangkok, whilst carefully balancing his post up with a more positive example of other Vietnamese boys. 

 

As far as Christianpfc's experiences  - as he describes it it looks like only one was a money boy.  Based on his description it appears that one was a money boy possibly from Fresh Boys five years ago, and they didn't agree to price before hand, or maybe they did and the boy asked for more, but Christianpfc didn't like the way the price discussion went afterwards.    

 

The other, as reported by Christitanpfc, is a non-offable boy, so per se not a moneyboy.  This I believe refers to some young (but legal) guy(s) who worked - and perhaps still do work - at Scorpion Bar who are simply not offable, and there are others I believe who will go off but are up-front about not doing anything, and I think their prices are supposedly high.  I don't know.  Much as it may be frustrating for some for the bar to use near-jail bait guys to lure in customers, not sure why it taints all VN guys.  

 

I understand that both stories are frustrating in their own ways, but really now all VN guys are bad??  Also, seems that both situations might possibly have been less frustrating with adequate communication - and communication is two-way.

 

Stepping back I'll repeat I've never noticed a difference between guys from one country or another (of the SE Asian countries we're discussing), and I and many other people have found Viietnam a great place to travel.  Some members may have had bad experiences, that's unfortunate, but before others give up on the opportunity to visit Vietnam I urge them to look to other sources - even straight! - with very positive reports on travel in Vietnam, in the same way most of us wouldn't let one or two bad reviews keep us from a good hotel or restaurant.

[paulsf]

Could you let me know of some of these scams. I'll be in Hanoi next week and in my past trips I guess I'm one of those unaware people . Never knew I was being scammed. I thought I was having a good time.

[firecat69]

Well we already have one member who says no comparison between Saigon and Hanoi.  Be interesting to see if A447a experiences are in both cities. I have already mentioned I think Hanoi is a delightful city and other then being careful which taxis you use I had no problems and plenty of Sexy Bottom Boys.

[vinapu]

Here I'm with paulsf , firecat and others who did not suffer  any scams neither in Vietnam nor Thailand. I had blast in both and can't recall any scams going my way.

 

I'd not call boy who promises long time and is looking to leave after 1 hr scammer  or waiter who "forgets" to bring change another one , there's some dishonesty in that but scam is deliberate not opportunistic.

 

As for Vietnamese boys I can't say anything bad but I did not have much of memorable experiences with them as well , so Id say positive but nothing thrilling. For me somehow Lao boys placed themselves firmly on the top on my ranks. 

 

for visit all 5 countries in the region / Thailand, Burma, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam  / are worth every effort and every penny as vacation destination and when comes to Vietnam I'm in camp who likes north much more than south

[steveboy]

I'd not call boy who promises long time and is looking to leave after 1 hr scammer  or waiter who "forgets" to bring change another one , there's some dishonest in that but scam is deliberate not opportunistic.

 

Maybe it is my misunderstanding but I don't think that what you mention is all the scam discussed here. 

Much of it is the exploitation of our feelings of compassion, empathy by coming along with invented stories.

 

It happened to me on my first visit to BKK when I hired a guide. He gave me a story of his problem with diabetes and his need to be injecting insulin throughout the day.  I felt sorry for the guy and gave him a large tip.  Then I reflected about the places he had taken me and realized that they were out to extract my money and the guide must have been in on that.  I read the stories of good hearted farangs who are confronted with the tragedies that conveniently happen to their cute boys that attach to them and steal their hearts, and I know personally several cases of this.  This kinds of scam are deliberate, although one ends up feeling more sorry for the scammer than outraged.

[aussie_]

I am in HCM city now and have traveled to all the major cities and other areas here over the past two years. I use the apps and find more bottoms than tops, some are free and all the mboys i have met here so far cost less than Thailand. I prefer twinks and nearly all looked great and performed to my expectations. I have only sent one guy away who looked nothing like his photos and some in Hanoi have asked for $US100 which i did not bother with.

 

I don't need gay bars or shows for entertainment so if that is your scene then you might find Thailand a better destination.

 

There is still a problem here between the North and South. I was dating a guy from Saigon and and we sat at a table at my hotel for breakfast with a family visiting from Hanoi. Usually he would be smiling and chat with everyone but it went deathly silent. I asked him what the problem was and he replied "they from the north, we not friends". I don't think all Vietnamese feel that way but some obviously do.

[ChristianPFC]

There we go again. Thailand the Land of Scams. You have to wonder why anyone visits the country and especially why anyone would constantly keep coming back??

 

Now I know my way around Thailand, and those scams and overpricing take place in touristy places, which I don't frequent any more. In the provinces no problem at all.

 

But scams make up a large part of my memories of Bali. (From scamming to overpricing.) And I won't go to Phuket or Samui any time soon, because I vividly remember overpriced transport and food.

 

On the other hand, I don't recall any scams in my two visits to Vietnam (Jan and Mar 2016), but that might be because I have experience from Thailand and now can easily spot and avoid scams everywhere.

[a447a]

Where do I start? There were so many scams.

 

I went onto Tripadvisor and found a suitable hotel – the Riverside Hotel in Hoian. At first, I was worried about all the negative reviews which spoke about a scam they had going on. However, for some reason I decided not to believe that and went ahead and booked anyway.

 

On arriving at the hotel I was told my room was not available, as there had been recent flooding and my room had been inundated with water. When I asked them how that was possibe, seeing the room was on the third floor (!) they changed their story and told me there were power problems in the room. But not to worry – they had another hotel I could stay at and guess what! It was even classier than this one.

 

I was bundled off to a shithole on the other side of town – no hot water, only intermittent power and a balcony which had a rusted out balustrade. If I had leant against it I would have fallen 4 floors to my death.

 

They came and picked me up the next morning. My original room was now ready.

On arrival there were 4 German guys arguing with the two receptionists.

“Verr ist our room? Ve pay already. Vat you mean not available??”

Oh dear!

 

On checking out a few days later I saw an Australian couple waiting forlornly in the lobby.

“Don’t tell me! Your room is unavailable. Is that right?”

 

My hotel was right across from the Japanese Bridge. On trying to cross it I was told by a young woman that I needed to buy a US$5 ticket. I could buy it at the kiosk around the corner. I went to the kiosk and there was a woman standing there – I guess it was her mother. Realising that I’d not heard anywhere that you had to buy a ticket, I just wandered back and crossed the bridge. The young girl was busy trying to scam another tourist.

 

The previous day I had bought a bus ticket to Hue from a travel bureau near the hotel. I was shown a photo of the available busses and chose the luxury one with seats that turned into a bed. As I was leaving, the girl asked me for my room number. I couldn’t work out why?

 

But I soon found out.

 

Whilst waiting for my bus I was approached by a young guy on a motorcycle, calling out my name and room number. As it turned out, the bus would not be stopping in front of my hotel; I had to get onto the back of his motorcycle – with my suitcase!- and he would take me to the bus terminal. Of course, I refused.

 

A few minutes later the bus turned up. Was it the luxury bus I had paid for? Of course it wasn’t! Silly old me! Fancy expecting that. It was a clapped out rusting piece of shit with filthy seats, many of which were broken.

 

It dropped me off in the centre of Hue. I tried to ask where my hotel was – it couldn’t have been far – but no one spoke a word of English. The taxi driver told me it was very far away and there was no way I could possible walk. He asked for US$10 – I offered $5.

 

No sooner had I hopped into the taxi than I was getting out again. The hotel was basically right in front of me!

 

I bought a bus ticket to Hanoi and there’s no need to tell you that the exact same drama played out again. But this time, the doorman was in cahoots with the guy on the motorcycle. He told me that the bus didn’t stop outside the hotel and that I had to go with the guy to the bus terminal. We are not talking about a cheap hotel - the doorman was working at a 5 star hotel!!

 

And needless to say, the luxury bus I had paid for never eventuated. In both cases, the travel operators had charged me for the most expensive bus, ordered the cheapest and pocketed the difference.

 

In Hanoi, I went to a travel agent to book an overnight trip on a boat in Halong Bay. I chose the most expensive boat they had – over US$200 for the night. You can probably guess what happened.

 

We arrived at the port and transferred into a small boat to take us out to our big boat for the cruise. I was looking around for the boat I had booked but couldn't see it. I ends up on a run down old barge. Now I know why they call them "junks". Ripped off again.

 

At the end of the cruise we were presented with our drinks bill. I'm not a drinker so only had 3 Cokes at $5 each. But I was presented with a bill for $30! One poor guy got a bill for $178 for his family's drinks!! An argument ensured. The last I saw of him was when he was being frog -marched to the atm machine when we got back to shore.

 

For me, Vietnam was an absolute nightmare. I found the people dishonest and out to get as much money from me as they could. Friends here who have travelled to Vietnam alone have had similar experiences. Those who went on group tours were ok.

[firecat69]

Since you are a known member, I have to believe everything you wrote. BUT I am unable to come up with an explanation for how many other members, both love and have had great experiences in Hanoi.

 

My first trip I stayed at a Boutique Hotel in the center for $40US that rivaled most of the 5 star hotels I have stayed in and they picked me up at the airport in a beautiful  SUV for $5. Breakfast included was fabulous. People at the desk fabulous for telling me where to go and what to be careful of. Crazy crossing the road is about the only complaint I have of Hanoi. In the cool season the outdoor cafes on the streets surrounded by trees are a delight.

 

I am seriously considering at least a months stay the next time in an Airbnb apartment but only in cool season.

[steveboy]

Where do I start? There were so many scams.

 

As I wrote before, in the US where I live there is a large population of Vietnamese and in the local university where I briefly taught they have a reputation for cheating. Indeed the ones I caught in my class were Vietnamese boys and girls.

Cute    but not very honest...

[a447a]

Since you are a known member, I have to believe everything you wrote. BUT I am unable to come up with an explanation for how many other members, both love and have had great experiences in Hanoi.

Don't get me wrong - it wasn't all bad. The country itself is beautiful and well worth a visit. I loved Hanoi and the hotel I stayed at -the Sofitel Metropole - was awesome. I still remember the chocolate sundae I had in their coffee shop.

 

But sorry, I have no love for any of the Vietnamese I met on my travels. They were unwelcoming and usually sullen. I just got the distinct feeling they just don't like us. It's the only country I've ever visited where I've felt that way.

 

BTW, I wrote a damning review on TripAdvisor.com about the hotel. The hotel booking website refused to publish it. No surprise there.

 

I googled the hotel today but it seems it's gone out of business. That is also no surprise.

 

As far as Vietnamese moneyboys in Thailand, I've only ever had negative experiences. Now, when a bar boy tells me he's from Vietnam, I run a mile.

[Alexx]

Interesting, a447a. I've heard about many of the Vietnam scams you've mentioned, so I don't doubt your report either. But let me say that you really had very bad luck encountering that many of them within a single trip. Something like that happening would probably keep me away, too.

 

My experiences in Vietnam, both in general and with the boys, have been very positive so far.

[a447a]

Interesting, a447a. I've heard about many of the Vietnam scams you've mentioned, so I don't doubt your report either.

Yes, but keep in mind that this was just one person 's experience. Unfortunately, it happened to be mine.

 

There are doubtless lots of other visitors to Vietnam who have enjoyed the exact opposite experience and come away loving the place.

 

I'm not one to hold grudges so I might even go back again someday. I really enjoyed Saigon and the Mekong Delta on my first trip and apart from being short -changed, I never really came across any scams - at least as far as I know.

[vinapu]

Ever since my own uncle got fake 100 USD note from the Swiss bank I tend to believe to all stories even if I can' t relate them in any way to my own experiences.

 

No doubt a447 had bad luck and he was not alone as I heard similar stories , although not with such intensity of occurrences but 

my experience from 2 week solo trip to Vietnam was nothing other than pure pleasure. Other than suffering very heavy rainfall  while on motorbike in Hue only other bad memory I  have is one of guides on day trip had his English so incomprehensive that it was being painful to listen.

[a447a]

"bad luck"? Well, I guess that's one way of looking at it.

 

But I became a victim of the hotel scam through my own stupidity. I should have paid more attention to the reviews on TripAdvisor.com. Sometimes I'm my own worst enemy.

 

My friends are always telling me I'm too trusting of others. That's true, but it's a result of my Japanese upbringing. I've never ever heard of anyone being scammed in Japan; it's just unthinkable.

[brall3]

a447a thanks a lot for providing more details about your experiences in Vietnam. Enlightenment, both good and bad, is wonderful to have! Due to people like you and others on various sites I have had some GREAT trips and experiences!!!

 

I can vividly remember visiting my grandparents who had a lot of flowers planted around their house; how beautiful. As I approached the flowers my grandfather warned me to be careful of the thorns on the roses? Thorns, roses? Eventually I learned what he meant and enjoyed the beauty of the flowers without the pain of the thorns.

 

Thanks to many of you, my trips have been as beautiful as a rose without the pain of the thorns.

[firecat69]

Although limited experience in Japan I would agree.  My favorite story took place in Kyoto.  I had some wrappers  that I was looking to put in the trash and could find no trash cans on the streets etc. I finally asked someone and they informed me they considered that the individual was responsible for trash, thus they put in their pockets and wait until they return home.

 

No wonder the streets are pristine!

[ChristianPFC]

Where do I start? There were so many scams (edit: in Vietnam)...

 

An impressive list, that is more than everything I have experienced.

 

Some recommendations: I use google maps so I know where I come from, where I'm going, and where I am (not foolproof, there can be U-turns, one-way streets, buses that don't go the shortest way). I try to be as independent as possible, e.g. buy bus and train tickets at the counter and not involve tour agencies or hotel staff, eat at restaurants that cater to locals.

[Guest]

Where do I start? There were so many scams.

 

I have no doubt all that went on.   

 

I avoided tour scams by fixing up my own Halong Bay tour just booking the regular bus, not some premium tour bus.

Even there, they then scam you by selling a seat & cramming 3 people into space on the bus designed for 2.     Even Cambodia & Laos don't do that.

 

The regular buses to & from Saigon airport overcharge foreigners, or try to extort extra money for their bags.   Top tip: The price is shown on the side of the bus.   [Compare with Thailand, where if taking the #29 bus to DMK, I get honest change from 20 baht, just like the Thais do]

 

My hotel in Saigon tried to charge the $125 bill twice.  Thankfully I had insisted upon a receipt after the first payment.  Since dealing with those bastards, I demand a receipt from every single hotel I go to now. 

[steveboy]

 Now, when a bar boy tells me he's from Vietnam, I run a mile.

 

Haha,  you run it in four minutes?

Like vinapu observed, just slightly to the west and the mood of boys change much for the better in Laos.

I only had dealings with one boy from Laos in the US, a beautiful and very suit one   

[steveboy]

My friends are always telling me I'm too trusting of others. That's true, but it's a result of my Japanese upbringing. I've never ever heard of anyone being scammed in Japan; it's just unthinkable.

 

I have much admiration for the Japanese, in addition to the strong attraction to their young males...

It was such a good example the behavior of the population after the tsunami and nuclear plants accident! Here in the US there would have been endless riots.  Their discipline and technological might appeals to my German side too.