earnings from drinks and off fee

[emailbroken]

If a boy sits with you, at your request, the expectation of the management is that you will buy him a drink. I have seen a mamasan take the tip from a boy's hand  if the customer did not buy him a drink.

If I invite i normally ask if a tip or drink is better for them.  Always to be told they'd rather a tip.

[kokopelli]

The boy naturally says a tip, the management says a drink. Bars need income from drink sales to stay alive; boys need tips to stay alive.

 

Also it is not fair to put the boy into a position to decide what is best for him or for the bar. By asking him to sit with you the understanding is that you will tip him regardless if  you  buy him a drink or not.  If the waiter/mamasan asks you to buy the boy a drink, then that is your responsibility to affirm or deny that request.

[emailbroken]

The boy naturally says a tip, the management says a drink. Bars need income from drink sales to stay alive; boys need tips to stay alive.

 

Also it is not fair to put the boy into a position to decide what is best for him or for the bar. By asking him to sit with you the understanding is that you will tip him regardless if  you  buy him a drink or not.  If the waiter/mamasan asks you to buy the boy a drink, then that is your responsibility to affirm or deny that request.

To suggest that it is unfair to ask the boy which is better for him is ridiculous.  Of course they can answer what is best for them and of course the question is asked discreetly rather than in front of the staffl.

 

Buying a drink for the boy is discretionary, which is why they ask you if you want to buy a drink for the boy.

Buying a drink to cover admission is not discretionary, which is why they just ask you what they want to drink.

[vinapu]

truth may be somewhere in between.

 

Boy may prefer understandably a tip but  he may be also expected to generate  so many drink sales and / or offs per period

( week or month ).

 

It may vary from bar to bar and also from boy to boy

[jason1975]

If a boy finds himself in such a gogo bar, as an adult, he needs to take control of the situation and move himself to another bar.

My last off from Fresh Boys had been there 5 days, after moving from Classic Boys where the evil mamasans asked for 2000 baht after he went home on holiday.

So some of them do have the balls to deal with despicable mamasans.

I believe the gogo boy, whom i got the info from, has no choice because he is a Viet boy. There might be other arrangement that the bar had made with him. Or he might have overexaggerated his hardship to me.

 

Anyway, i am happy to have met him.

[vinapu]

Or he might have over exaggerated his hardship to me.

 

 

possibly as mamasans must keep some kind of employee discipline. Otherwise they may open bar in the evening just to see nobody showing up for work that day or everybody being late, hence late show penalties and visible rush of boys in soi Twilight  trying to be in the bars on time

[kokopelli]

 

Buying a drink for the boy is discretionary, which is why they ask you if you want to buy a drink for the boy.

Buying a drink to cover admission is not discretionary, which is why they just ask you what they want to drink.

Guess we see things differently.  Yes, it is discretionary however by asking the waiter is politely hinting that you are expected to buy the boy a drink. That is how a bar makes it's money on drink sales. And I do realize that when drinks are 200+ Baht, having a boy sit with you can get expensive with drinks and a tip. But that is the way it is. Personally I believe the bar management will "take it out" on the boy if he cannot generate drinks or an off from the customers.

[DivineMadman]

Personally, when I ask a boy to sit with me, whether as a first step towards an off or just for warm company while watching the show, I always buy him a drink.  The show at X-Boys is so long, it sometimes turns into two drinks.  The boy makes some money, he stays in the mamasan's good graces and the bar makes the money it deserves for putting on the show and providing the lineup of available guys.  I would be happier if the drink prices were lower.  

 

There are other board members who are far friendlier than I will ever be, and are friends with half the boys at the bar.  (Paulsf I won't name names.)  When those many many boys voluntarily go to chat and say hello with such a member, i've seen the mamasan still try to push drinks (!), but there I think it is perfectly fine to say no.

 

I keep on a pretty strict budget, so it may mean that buying bar drink(s) for the boys means I have to stay in and skip the bars for a day or two.  Seems fair to me.

[abidismaili]

I hate the fact we have to buy a drink, I rather pay an entrance fee. Because on an evening of bar hopping I am just not thirsty anymore after 2 drinks. I order  a drink and don't touch it. Go to next show, order drink and don't touch it. I am very willing to pay an entrance fee for show bars and go go bars.

 

I also wonder how these boys see their future. When I ask one, I receive answers like "I don't want to become old", "I will not become old", "I don't know". Never there is an answer like "When I turn 25 and I slowly become too old for this, I go work in a 7-11". Or answers like that.  

 

Most boys also are pretty lazy. The work ethic is not high. At least for those boys I have come to know a bit better. Many depend on money send by their boyfriend each month, without it they wouldn't make enough to live. Some spend days and days in game shops.

 

How do they intend to earn a living when they are too old for their current line of 'work' ? My experience is they don't think about it. They live day by day. It is for me incomprehensible. Like they don't care about the future, even if they must know it rapidly approaches.

[Guest abang1961]

I also wonder how these boys see their future. When I ask one, I receive answers like "I don't want to become old", "I will not become old", "I don't know". Never there is an answer like "When I turn 25 and I slowly become too old for this, I go work in a 7-11". Or answers like that.  

 

Most boys also are pretty lazy. 

---------------------

I can understand that the shelf life of a male sex worker is limited.  Of course, farangs like fresh meat, the younger the better.

With regards to say they are lazy, I don't want to belittle them as their exposure to the world is really microscopic.  We cannot use our ruler to measure them.  If I do not have a REAL job and REAL purpose in life, I can only escape into the world of

computer/video games.  I would rather they play these senseless games than to take meth crystals or other inhalants.

 

Sometimes I tend to admire the Thais happy-go-lucky attitude... When the floods came into Bangkok markets, most street vendors lost virtually everything.  But with their optimistic attitude, they got back on their feet faster than expected.  So the Thai men always have mai-pen-rai on their lips. 

[Jasper]

Like DivineMadman,I too buy a boy drink when I invite a boy and give him a small tip 100-200B if I decide not to off him. I don't give this consolation small tip to offing boy of the night obviously.

When I go to Tawan and see many familiar faces coming to say hello, I feel a bit guilty not to offer them a drink but boy drink 400B

( boy gets only 50B from non- alcoholic drinks, no wonder every boys order Diet Coke before I knew the fact boy don't get kick back from alcohol drinks I thought they were on diet like a good body builder.haha) isn't cheap so I sometimes buy a bottle of whiskey from the bar 3000B which works out cheaper than buying many individual drinks.

It's important for me that my favourite boys to maintain a good working relationship with the management for boys welfare.

Having a generous customer does not hurt the boy's reputation in the management. I hope.

[DivineMadman]

To be complete I should note that at the end of the evening if I don't off the boy I have been sitting with I of course also give a cash tip.

 

Personally I find the statements certain people make on the aboard that the boys are lazy or stupid etc. unjustified and inappropriate.

[jason1975]

 

Sometimes I tend to admire the Thais happy-go-lucky attitude... When the floods came into Bangkok markets, most street vendors lost virtually everything.  But with their optimistic attitude, they got back on their feet faster than expected.  So the Thai men always have mai-pen-rai on their lips.

 

I admire their optimism as well. I am most impressed how every afternoon the stalls are set up at Patpong then taken down at night for it to become a normal road the next morning.

[Travellerdave]

When I go into a gogo it is with the expectation of having a boy sit with me, although maybe 50% of the visits this does not happen usually because I don't see one which I find attractive. Encounters can cover the full spectrum from just an arm round him to cock play or tongue kissing. I rather like a bit of exhibitionism which can be enjoyed in for example Eros in Sunee. My standard tip is 100 but can be quite a bit higher when I have enjoyed the encounter. Checking out the boy before an off can be wise and having the mamasan explain to the boy what my expectations are is worth a tip or drink to him/her. I'm versatile so a hard cock is important as is the boy's willingness to rim.

[vinapu]

I hate the fact we have to buy a drink, I rather pay an entrance fee. Because on an evening of bar hopping I am just not thirsty anymore after 2 drinks. I order  a drink and don't touch it. Go to next show, order drink and don't touch it. I am very willing to pay an entrance fee for show bars and go go bars.

 

 

my receipt for that problem is to tell mamasan I don't want drink but I will buy one for you, that way bar has its sales and mamasan is kept at bay at the same time

 

 

 

  Of course, farangs like fresh meat, the younger the better.

 

 

not necessarily , there's always me and me-likes to keep them on the shelf a bit longer 

 

When I go to Tawan and see many familiar faces coming to say hello, I feel a bit guilty not to offer them a drink but boy drink 400B

 I feel too but restrain myself to buying my own drink and sometimes to boys sitting on my right and left if I will not be offing them. Good to know they don't get a cut on alcohol but I always let them to pick up their drinks anyways

 

 

 

Personally I find the statements certain people make on the aboard that the boys are lazy or stupid etc. unjustified and inappropriate.

exactly, educated , mature and urban guys are trying to use the same measure  for young boys straight from the rice fields and with not much schooling 

 

 I am most impressed how every afternoon the stalls are set up at Patpong then taken down at night for it to become a normal road the next morning.

and this is quite a spectacle I like to watch all those shirtless boys working

 

 Checking out the boy before an off can be wise and having the mamasan explain to the boy what my expectations are is worth a tip or drink to him/her. 

You are right but I, for one , like adventures and surprises and actually check very little other than asking them if they shave pubic hair which I hate and prefer to keep mamasans out of loop entirely

[firecat69]

Just a few thoughts on some of the comments in the thread.

 

1. On Soi Twilight the bars over time have forced me to change what I use to do and be happy to buy drinks and tip boy who sat with me.  Now instead of calling 2 or 3 boys over to sit , I am more likely to take longer to call someone over or even call no one over and distribute some tips on stage as I leave. If the Bar can't stay in business by charging me 400 baht or more for a 10 baht drink , then let them go out of business.  If I call boy over , he will get at least 100 baht tip and I will make sure to tip the Mamasan and everyone is happy and I keep more of my money in my pocket.  Pattaya is a different story with most Bars charging 1/2 or less then the thieves in Bangkok, I am more willing to buy the boy a drink and tip him if I don't off him.

 

2. The comments about the boys being lazy , is usually made by people who have not learned a lot about the boys , their lives prior to Sex for Pay and think of them in terms of boys that age in their home countries. Are some boys lazy. I guess by definition if they choose rather then take a job that pays them 9000 baht per month (if they can get one) for 6 days a week and at least 60 hours , for a job that pays them more in 2 short time sexual encounters per week .

 

Would any of us accuse a Westerner who gave up a Corporate job of untold hours a week for a job he could do sitting at home on his computer for a few hours a day as lazy. Probably not.

 

Some of these boys waste the money they earn , but more of them really do send money home to mama. The comment about boys getting money from BF's every month represent a very boys.  Many of the boys come from Issan and assuming they are 18 when they arrive to the Sex trade of BKK or pattaya , they are much less educated and aware of the world then Western Boys. More likely they are an equivalent of a 14 year old from the USA .  

 

Budgeting their money and being aware of saving for the rent due in 10 days is just not something they have been taught.

 

3.  The comment about shelf life being short may be true for some but I doubt for most. I know some boys I have been seeing for many years .  Truth is in my eyes they have not changed in 7-10 years I have been seeing them.  I know boys that at least to my old eyes , look just as good as they did on my first visit 15 years ago.  Does that mean I don't look for new boys , of course not.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions on these things, but is a fact that some have had more encounters and situations in order to form their opinions.

[a447a]

I think you've hit the nail on the head with those 3 points, Firecat.

 

It's certainly true that these guys have received little, if any, advice on money matters. But I find that many of older guys who I associate with finally realise the importance of saving some money whenever they can. Some actually have plans for the future.

 

The guy I'm with in Pattaya saves his money, whereas his younger brother, who is 19, I think, spends everything on partying.

 

But can we blame him?

 

Not really. We were all young once.

[Alexx]

It's true that they usually aren't very educated in money matters, and it's not that uncommon for this to run in the family. So even if a boy diligently sends a large chunk of his earnings back home, the money might ultimately still be "wasted".

 

Drinking fathers, gambling mothers, pregnant teenage sisters and jailed brothers are not that uncommon, unfortunately. If someone coming from such a family can make good money AND use it wisely, more power to them! I wouldn't diss those who fail though.

[abidismaili]

Is Buriram considered Issan?

 

Yes I admit 'lazy' is not the good word if working means you only receive 9000 baht a month. I understand no one wants a job which pays so bad.

 

Regarding budget matters. Even if you are not educated for it, you do know in 10 days the rent is due. If you not save for that, how tend these boys then to pay for it if you ask them? They think on day 10 a mircale will happen and the money is suddently there? I go with you that they are not educated for it, but still they KNOW the rent is due soon. They KNOW that, so they must have in their mind an idea how they are going tio pay for it. What is this idea if it isn't saving? What is it then?

[Brummbaer]

Their friends, who will lend them the money, should they have some spare cash at the time it's needed. And those friends will borrow in time of need too. 9000 per month is actually enough for a Thai to survive on and still be able to send money home to mum. Even in Bangkok a Thai will find a basic room (running water, but no shower, not near BTS) for 5000 or less - I believe ChristianPFC was room hunting a couple of years ago and can confirm - and with lots of streetfood options they can feed themselves with 100/day or less. To put the 9000 in perspective, starting salary at a bank for university graduate is 12000, and I believe we all know that banks tend to pay rather well world wide.

[firecat69]

Just amazing how easy it is for some who travel to Thailand once in awhile to think they know what it is to live on 9000 baht a month. No problem they should spend 5000 baht for a room with running water (wow) and then they have 100 baht a day left for transportation, food, clothes , medicine ,laundry and heaven forbid an hour of fun. Oh and yes with all the money left over, they can send a few baht a month to mama.

 

First of all nobody can pay 55% of their earnings for a room without a shower.  That is why boys share a room with friends . I wonder how many of the experts here have ever visited a boys room?

 

Second using Christian as an example of living cheap is just hilarious. Christian spends more for airline tickets, hotels and sex then any of the boys ever thought of earning.  Does he live cheaper then many Western visitors .  Of course he does but in the course of a month he spends many times more then 9000 baht a month and if he is working for a living, I don't believe he has shared it with us.  But then again I am not a voracious reader of his blog.

 

The comment about the bank teller getting paid well because we all know banks pay well is even more wrong.  In the USA bank teller make an average of $11.97 per hour or about $24,000 a year . It might be 30% more then a McDonalds worker at best. Survivable on your own but not easy depending on where you live.

 

I'm not sure if Bank tellers in Thailand make 12,000 baht per month but I am pretty sure they need a University degree , something 99% of the boys in the sex trade will never have the opportunity to get.

 

Even the most budget conscious visitor to Thailand (for 2 weeks) from  the West spends 50-60,000 baht before they ever have a drink, pay an off fee, massage , sex etc.  Many spend more then that and then spend at least that much on massages , drinks and SEX.  That is for 2 weeks .

 

Just think of it, that adds up to more then many Thais make in an entire year.

 

When you scrape away all the BS about loving the food and the culture , the truth is most of us on this Forum visit here because of the Cheap SEX.  If the prices for that tripled tomorrow , so would many of our visits be reduced.

 

So criticizing boys because they don't know how to handle money without understanding their environment and education in many ways is not fair.

 

Are there boys that have been around and should have learned the lessons. In fact there are many boys who learn the lessons of budgeting their money and not buying the newest phones etc. They are of course not the 18 year olds who come here from Issan and hopefully have friends who support them with what they have learned. But many just learn the hard lessons of not having an off for 10 days and the rent is due .

[vinapu]

Is Buriram considered Issan?

 

Bank , my boy offed from BBB told me he can do only short time tonight because tomorrow he needs to drive his friend to Issan. 

 

Where? Buriram was the answer so here you go.

 

Ken , his substitute was well equipped so I asked 'you must be from Issan" , "yes , some city Bank went"

[Alexx]

There are rooms available with shower (catch: cold water only) and air-conditioning (catch: electricity is charged with a significant mark-up at these places) for about 3,500 baht per month all over Bangkok. Somewhat cheaper in old buildings without air-conditioning and with a shower that might be defunct since 15 years. Often shared, often not in the most convenient locations.

 

Obviously, someone earning 9,000 or 12,000 baht per month cannot afford to pay a lot for rent (nowhere near 5,000+ baht) - and there are many of these people in and around Bangkok, all of them living somewhere (!).

 

Quite a typical example is a friend of mine whose salary is 11,000 baht (shop clerk); he pays 1,500 baht for rent. Food and groceries 4,500 baht, gas and installments for his motorbike another 1,500 baht, 2,000 baht for his mom. There's not much left to save or party away. And he better doesn't get sick.

[abidismaili]

and if he is working for a living, I don't believe he has shared it with us.   .

 

I have this question also for Christian. How a relatively young man can stay so long in Thailand without a job. How does he do it? I know he travelled last year back to Europe because I understood his savings were gone. But I think he still visits a lot. But now funded via a job?

 

I hope he can enlighten curious me :-)

[vinapu]

I have this question also for Christian. How a relatively young man can stay so long in Thailand without a job. How does he do it? I know he travelled last year back to Europe because I understood his savings were gone. But I think he still visits a lot. But now funded via a job?

 

I hope he can enlighten curious me :-)

would you really be willing to share your financial arrangements here if somebody curious asked you?