earnings from drinks and off fee

[jason1975]

Was in bangkok over christmas weekend and went to both girl gogo bar (with my str8 friends) and boy gogo bar (on my own)

 

 

Boy gogo

- boy earns nothing from drinks

- boy earns nothing from bar fine

- boy must give 300 bht to mamasan from short time fee that he earns

 

Girl gogo

- girl earns 80 baht from 180 drinks (40%)

 

Couldn't find out more from girl gogo about bar fine and amount to give back to mamasan bekoz i didn't proceed further than drinks with girl gogo

 

Anyone who can confirm?

 

Once i found out that boy gogo didn't earn anything from drinks, i stopped buying drinks (on my last night). I gave tips instead.

[paulsf]

What Boy Togo did you go to ? All that I go to, boys earn money from drinks. I have seen a couple of reports that some Mamasans request a fee, but I know none of my working friends have had to do this.

[DivineMadman]

I do not think your info regarding guy go go bars is accurate, at least in Bangkok - I haven't checked recently but I did do a bit of a informal chat/investigation about this last year.  

 

At the Soi Twilight gogo bars, the boys definitely get 20 (maybe 30-40? I forget) baht for each boy drink.  (they get a little slip of paper and get cashed out - I think weekly).  Paulsf clued me in that although the bar/mamasans want to push you to buy an expensive drink to look cool in front of the boy you are chatting with, the boy may well be happier if you decline the suggestion to buy a drink and slip him a crisp note -- and you get to save some money.

 

Agree they do not get a cut of the off fee.  

 

I think there are occasionally rumors that some mamasans may take a cut of the tip, and some may have special "under the table" arrangements with some boys in exchange for preferential recommendation - but the general rule is they do not get a cut of the boy's tip.  There seems to be enough competition among the bars for talent that abusive practices like that don't seem to take root widely. 

 

Some if not all of the bars pay each of the boys a relatively modest payment for showing up and parading on stage (as long as they show up on an agreed schedule).  This and the payment for the boy drink gets paid in arrears, so the bar has a little leverage over the boys.  Last year X-Boys was paying people about 120 Baht I think.

 

Also, as we all know, if a boy doesn't show up for work on his assigned work day (night) he has to pay the bar the off fee.  Lengthy unauthorized absences or absences not on the best of terms can lead to punitive charges if the boy has to go back to work in the bar.  (Had an acquaintance who got charged 2,000 baht to go back to Classic Boy.)

 

For the girl gogo info I pretty much rely, as a mildly interested outsider, on stickmanweekly.com.  

[jason1975]

Thanks for the info, guys!

[emailbroken]

Always better for the guy to slip him some money as a tip.

[paulsf]

My understanding is at the outdoor bars, boys get an average of 20 baht per drink and indoors an average of 50 baht per drink.

[Alizizou]

At tawan if u not buy a drink they will kickout ur ass..lol

[vinapu]

while definitely boy would prefer tip over drink , even if he gets 20-50 baht out of it they may have quota of drinks over months.

 

The same is possible with offs, one of Tawan boys kept  telling me recently that requirement there is 10 offs/ month but I couldn't confirm it with other boys.

 

mamasan's cut may be a reason that sometimes mamasans are quoting inflated tip expectancy, that's why I always talk directly to the boy cutting mamasans out of loop , usually by claiming I like girls better.

[1moRussian]

Friend of mine (kind of ex-bf), a beach massage guy, always telling me "No customers, not same as before, no business".

Another friend, a farang gay guesthouse manager, always sounds different "Very good, we are fully booked" (the guesthouse is located 300 m from the beach with "no customers").

So at the second time, after listening these 2 contradicting statements, I decided to sum up them both and divide at 2. To get a real average

 

Jason1975: there are good chances that the boy was trying to sell you sad stories to maximize his cash inflow. Although tips instead of second or third drink are much appreciated. As a small addition - it could attract evil ghosts, telling people how good your business is. And Thai ghosts are really evil.

 

DivineMadman: are you sure, they don't get a fraction from the off fee? Just asking, because I am not sure (or it could depend on a particular bar / salary agreement).

My experience here is from Pattaya, but in 2012 during long repeated offs from Copa bar, when we came inside to pay the off fee the guy was getting a fraction from the money I paid to the bar. Again this April with the inflated off fee case in BBB (the guy and bar insisted that his off was already 800 as a coyote and I repeatedly paid 500 - the same as four months before in December-2015). When at 4th day I gave money to the boy to pay his off, he took a 100 baht note before handing the money over to a manager.

So I think boys might get some from off fees - as a fraction or as a part of their salary scheme... But it's just my guess.

[emailbroken]

At tawan if u not buy a drink they will kickout ur ass..lol

You have to buy a drink for yourself as admission.  You do not have to buy a drink for any of the guys. 

[Moses]

I can tell only about Pattaya and only about host bars. Boys there receive 50% of "off fee" and have nothing from regular drinks, but have 10% from whiskey bottle + soda + ice sets. Fine for "no show" at work is 100% of "off fee", waiter's salary is "about nothing": 100-150 baht per day, so they are leaving on tips and offs...

[DivineMadman]

It may be that some bars treat some of the "salary" as coming from the off fee, or boys get bonuses based on offs - assuming they've complied with all the other rules.  I don't know.  Some boys have different arrangements.  Dancers making more.  But I think we're agreed that the if the boy doesn't show up when he's supposed to he has to pay the off fee (bar fine), and then doesn't turn around and get any of that back as his cut.  So there may be different ways of thinking about it.

[Guest]

In several Pattaya gogos, the boys get a ticket either each drink sold, which is worth a few baht.

[vinapu]

I think those arrangements vary from bar to bar and even in bar may be different for different boys. The same goes with massage places.

 

Some boys may be on kind of salary and then will pay penalty for no show, others may be freelancers who get nothing but show at work at will.

 

Some places are providing free food  for employees and other's not or at least not regularly.   

 

Once at Tawan I was witness of rice delivery , each boy present at work that day got big , 10 or perhaps 15 kg bag of rice.

 

If boy's drink is more expensive than client's one which is a case in few bars, at least in Pattaya,  that's sure sign boys get a cut of it.

 

At Arena few times they let me to take boy off for free as long as I had paid massage that same day even if with another boy but this seemed to be at whim as it was not always a case but could be also result of  some rules i.e.  if boy had so many clients that day/ week / month  he could leave for free, otherwise penalty applied.

 

At now defunct Adonis not only they levy off fee  but even with that boy could leave only after certain hour in the evening.

Old Hero was known for not letting their boys to be offed at all.

 

In some bars coyotes can't be offed before bar closes, in others their off fee is much higher.

 

So it seems there are rules but very few are actually industry-wide.

[DivineMadman]

I think basic rules for Soi Twilight gogo bars are as discussed.  Different topic of course regarding some  guys featured in the "shows" or coyote dancers (in some bars) can't be offed until after they've done their job.  And then of course there are the [in]famous non-offable guys at Scorpion.

 

Arena is very up front, I think it's even on their website, that after the massage you and your masseur are free to do what you want.  Other shops, particularly those with a smaller stable of guys, have different rules, and now that more and more shops have special outcall rates, you might expect to be required to pay that.

[Guest abang1961]

Last joke of the year..on myself...

I can spread my legs wide for FREE.

You will incur ZERO cost upfront...not so sure of the damage upon seeing me naked..

[Vessey]

My overall impression in Pattaya is that the girls get a better deal from girl/boy drinks than the boys do. 

 

I stay in Soi 6 where lady-drinks are in the 150 to 160 baht range (sometimes shots are cheaper) and they get about 40 baht per drink that a customer buys them.

 

In Toy Boys, the drinks are 250 to 260 baht for both customer and boys  and that the boys only get 20 baht per drink - which IMHO is outrageous. But as three of  my current  favourite boys now seem to work there I guess I am going to be there on a daily basis.  However if I buy a boy a drink and he comes and sits and chats - then I give him 100 baht tip minimum; I would rather do that and be a bit stingy on the drinks - costs me less and the boys get more.

 

I suspect that all bars and agogos get the bulk of their profits from drinks, and that off-fees and alike are relatively small beer by comparison. 

 

Scandic Massage opposite Toy Boys was 1,500 baht for massage and 'sex with boy', I think the boys got less than half that - so again, additional tips in the room for good performance etc. were usually gratefully appreciated.

 

My massage lad at one of the more traditional massage shops on Second Road, got 100 baht from the 300 baht cost of the oil massage. So I would always tip at least 100 baht at the end (more inside if he was being particularly 'helpful' to my needs of course).

[ChristianPFC]

Boy gogo
- boy earns nothing from drinks
- boy earns nothing from bar fine
- boy must give 300 bht to mamasan from short time fee that he earns

 

That's an extreme scenario, or rather a combination of how some bars treat their boys poorly, and has been refuted by others already.

 

If boy's drink is more expensive than client's one which is a case in few bars, at least in Pattaya, that's sure sign boys get a cut of it.

 

Or just the owner's greed. Even if the boy gets for 20 Baht out of the 200 Baht I pay for his drink, that's ridiculous as justification for drink price.

[ChristianPFC]

delete

[vinapu]

 

 

 Even if the boy gets for 20 Baht out of the 200 Baht I pay for his drink, that's ridiculous as justification for drink price.

correct but somehow bars need to make their money.

 

Sad fate of Zeus in soi Twilight  closed exactly 2 years ago and still vacated  certifies  it's not easy to run a bar. 

 

Otherwise we will be left to a mercy of streetwalkers and apps but thanks God for a massage places.

[Guest]

Boy gogo

- boy earns nothing from drinks

- boy earns nothing from bar fine

- boy must give 300 bht to mamasan from short time fee that he earns

If a boy finds himself in such a gogo bar, as an adult, he needs to take control of the situation and move himself to another bar.

 

My last off from Fresh Boys had been there 5 days, after moving from Classic Boys where the evil mamasans asked for 2000 baht after he went home on holiday.

So some of them do have the balls to deal with despicable mamasans.

[gerefan]

 

In Toy Boys, the drinks are 250 to 260 baht for both customer and boys  and that the boys only get 20 baht per drink - which IMHO is outrageous.

Not so. I'm in Toyboys most evenings and my drinks and the boys drinks are always 220 bt each. As in any bar in Thailand I check the bin very, very carefully !! I believe they get 30 bt for each drink.

Like most regulars, I usually get a free one or two which helps to make it reasonable.

[vinapu]

 

Arena is very up front, I think it's even on their website, that after the massage you and your masseur are free to do what you want.  Other shops, particularly those with a smaller stable of guys, have different rules, and now that more and more shops have special outcall rates, you might expect to be required to pay that.

stiil if you want to take Arena boy with you better make sure  if they charge for that and how much.

 

You brought important point  in respect of offing massage boys. At some places  out call fee  may be geared toward occupants of 5 star hotels and be very,  very steep like 5000-7000 for overnight  , boy tip included so one should always ask and made sure.

 

Also if boy tip is included  is better to make sure how much is boy's cut as this varies wildly. Copa and Ambiance are charging 900 out of which 500 goes to the boy.

 

But BBB Inn is very greedy, out of 1700 fee boy gets 510 = 30 % only so make sure boys are compensated properly. On another hand off fee may be cheap, boy I took on my last day told me he needs to pay them 500 only.

[vinapu]

my last off from Fresh Boys had been there 5 days, after moving from Classic Boys where the evil mamasans asked for 2000 baht after he went home on holiday.

So some of them do have the balls to deal with despicable mamasans.

but they need to thread carefully since number of bars they can work is limited, Girls have it easier in this respect

[kokopelli]

You have to buy a drink for yourself as admission.  You do not have to buy a drink for any of the guys. 

If a boy sits with you, at your request, the expectation of the management is that you will buy him a drink. I have seen a mamasan take the tip from a boy's hand  if the customer did not buy him a drink.