Dear Mr farang X

[Jasper]

If you promised a Thai bar boy that when you visit Bangkok next time, you will take him to Bali/HK/Tokyo etc or invite him back to US/UK/Germany and changed your mind after the infatuation with the boy faded, please pick up the phone and tell him so.

 

Please don't just ignore his repeated Line messages thinking " Oh he's just a bar boy. He is used to disappointments."

 

Because I know something inside of the boy dies a little.

 

Yes, I am a sentimental fool.

[williewillie]

Unless a boy is very green, they know farangs bullshit, make empty promises and flat out lie.

Caught up in infatuation, some farangs promise the future, but when it wears off or the next 'dream' boy is found,

rationalize and move on.

While it would be nice to tell the boy you're a windbag bullshit artist, communications are usually difficult

and most take the easy path.

Years ago, I made a lot of promises after a week of pure pleasure with a perfect Thai guy, but decided against

a long distance relationship,after returning to home country, without informing the boy.

The boy pursued me and amazingly after a two year break, we resumed and almost a decade later are still

'hot to trot'. Well, at least I am. It was tricky getting back together and took several weeks and many phone calls.

We were almost strangers after the long absence but found our groove once we got it on.

Facebook helped a lot and I joined Facebook at his invitation.

[emailbroken]

For me we are back to the idea of empathy.   I would hate anyone to make a promise to me they don't intend to keep.  Always good to treat others as you'd like to be treated.

[Alexx]

But isn't that the crux of the matter, the "don't intend to keep" part? I'd say the typical Farang X desperately wants to believe in whatever he's promising, while he's at it. He's deceiving himself as much as the boy, I think.

 

The OP makes a good point, in theory, about explaining things later. But that's lateral Western thinking, I'm not convinced that many Thai boys would be keen to have that chat.

[Guest]

I have never made such promises or even implied I might take a boy home.

[1moRussian]

While I think it's a good thing to keep your promises (or at least to inform other people that you've decided to quit), just as an intercultural observation: isn't it Thais, who prefer not to answer Line messages? To avoid any smallest open contradiction?

 

As I have learnt, such non-answering means "no" in Thailand. Thus such non-answering should have a very clear meaning of "no" in Thai social communication system, shouldn't it? (I am not trying to take any side, just exploring Thai ways of thinking)

 

Or because the promise was made by a farang (and we all know: farang people are strange people and they do unexpected things) and the promise is so miraculous, so conventional rule "non-answering = no" stops working in this case?

[Guest abang1961]

Sometimes the passion overtook rationality and promises were made at the spur of the moment. We may have a short holiday romance but once the passion dies, reality hurts. It suddenly dawns upon us that besides sex, we need a real partner outside the bedroom.

[steveboy]

Yes, I am a sentimental fool.

 

You are a honorable person.

[vinapu]

Just to chip in , sometimes we actually don't make any promises, it's a boy who treats our polite avoidance of the  subject as agreement to his  scheming and then plays hurt and disappointed.

 

Unfortunately it looks that I found myself in being placed in that position of deceiving farang 

[ChristianPFC]

I would never make such a promise in the first place.

 

However I have invited boys to day trips. The day before everything discussed and agreed on, then the morning of the day trip message or call the boy once I get up: no reply, same for follow-up calls or messages, finally I went alone. Happened several times. Now learnt when "yes" means "no". Anything that starts in the morning, it's best to keep the boy over night.

 

Because I know something inside of the boy dies a little.

 

This works both way. Did I frantically try to reach the boy, from waking up until the bus/train leaves, changing plans in between, finally realizing that he didn't mean what he said. Now I plan everything for the case the boy comes and for the case the boy doesn't come.

 

Now when I meet someone who looks promising (with many boys I can say just after a few minutes that they are stupid and lazy, good for a fuck, but nothing more), I first test if there is efficient and reliable communication and if their space-time coordination works.

 

Addendum: I followed boys' invitations a few times, only to find out he isn't at the place I'm going to meet him. With hindsight, you could argue if this was deception or wishful thinking on my part or a misunderstanding. Now I have learnt and plan my trips so even if the boys is not there, it won't be wasted.

 

Summary: the OP is unbalanced, at least I have been on the receiving end of lies/misunderstandings many times, whereas I never promised anything I couldn't hold (Unless you interpret "See you next week" as a promise. It's short for "See you next week, if we are both free at the same time, and I'm thinking of you at the right moment and am not with someone else".)

 

The situation is unsymmetrical: For the boy who does not get the trip to Bali/HK/Tokyo etc or invite him back to US/UK/Germany nothing is lost, however for the Farang who invites a boy and buys tickets and books hotels and the boy does not show up, or for the Farang who goes to visit the boy somewhere and it doesn't turn out as expected (had that as well: extensive writing and calling, and when we finally met rather cold reception) a lot of time and money is wasted.

[KhorTose]

Because I know something inside of the boy dies a little.

.

 

I often think of this boy every time I meet one of these incredibly bitter mama sans.

[Jasper]

Thanks Christian for your thoughts. You made a good argument from your painful? experience.

 

"Summary : the OP is unbalanced." I totally agree with you.

 

However, call me old fashioned but I still believe in the concept of

'noblesse oblige'.

 

We were born in the world where we took comfortable home, university education, highly paid job for granted whereas most of bar boys were not.

 

Most of us on this forum are experienced travellers, enjoyed the places where a Thai bar boy will ever see only on TV or movie.

 

Do you remember the first time you received your passport?

Were you 8 years old when your family visited Spain for a summer vacation.

 

And imagine a Thai bar boy who has applied first passport as his farang customer instructed with promises of foreign trips.

You see his smiling face holding first passport on Facebook.

 

And then the farang ignore the boy's Line messages.

 

Farangs and boys are not on an equal footing.

I firmly believe that farangs should be on higher moral,ethical ground.

 

Or at least sending Line message to say ' Mai dai ' ( I cannot) to an anxious waiting boy.

[Onlyserious]

[steveboy]

Farangs and boys are not on an equal footing.

I firmly believe that farangs should be on higher moral,ethical ground.

 

I also think that Thai boys are more vulnerable than experienced farangs.

And one needs to act accordingly to avoid hurting them.

And be prepared to not trust them, like Christian told, because of their different education. 

[Guest abang1961]

I was young and beautiful some 35 years ago when I started the dating game.

Those days were way before the advent of the mobile phones and pager.

I had to depend on the lined-house phone for every dates.

Of course I was lucky as many farangs kept their promises and met up, mashed up.

 

As I grew older, I learnt to take disappointments better..that dick that royally fuck me turned cold suddenly..yes, it was frustrating initially but now, I have mellowed and believe that there is always another dick waiting in line.

 

I myself tried my best to keep to my end of the bargain..you may term it as 'charity' sex...I stripped and let that Joe groped me endlessly but I short stop of having anal sex.

[ChristianPFC]

And imagine a Thai bar boy who has applied first passport as his farang customer instructed with promises of foreign trips.

You see his smiling face holding first passport on Facebook.

 

And then the farang ignore the boy's Line messages.

 

Is this and the OP bases on real events? I know several boys who have been taken to trips around Thailand and abroad by Farang, but I have never heard of events as in the OP. I'm sure they exist, probably the boy wouldn't post on facebook or tell others (loss of face).

 

I also think that Thai boys are more vulnerable than experienced farangs.

And one needs to act accordingly to avoid hurting them.

And be prepared to not trust them, like Christian told, because of their different education. 

 

I got experienced by getting hurt many times (technically nothing lost, I just waited and called and messaged the boy, and finally went alone).

 

There are far more instances where the boy said "Maybe", but meant "No", and I understood "Yes", than the other way round.

[steveboy]

I got experienced by getting hurt many times (technically nothing lost, I just waited and called and messaged the boy, and finally went alone).

 

There are far more instances where the boy said "Maybe", but meant "No", and I understood "Yes", than the other way round.

 

You are right, we are right, and the boys are right.  It is all consequence of this world being SHIT.

 

There is even worse victimization in the straight world.  At least the boys are not abandoned and left pregnant.  Women are enticed by men with lovely attitudes, fucked, and dumped.  Men are enticed by women, exploited and dumped. And there are a couple of honest relationships here and there...

 

I think the best we can do is to be as honest as possible while not getting upset over the dishonesty of others.

[steveboy]

As I grew older, I learnt to take disappointments better..that dick that royally fuck me turned cold suddenly..yes, it was frustrating initially but now, I have mellowed and believe that there is always another dick waiting in line.

 

I have also mellowed as I turned older, but I cannot apply the same logic as you do since I am a top...

[Jasper]

Is this and the OP bases on real events? I'm sure they exist, probably the boy wouldn't post on facebook or tell others (loss of face

Yes this was a real event.

Yes he lost face.

He said " No good person in the bar(environment)."

[numazu]

Yes this was a real event.

Yes he lost face.

He said " No good person in the bar(environment)."

 

I would never promise anything like this to a boy, however infatuated I am. There is always the temptation to make a lot of promises, but I think having a BF stops me from going too far with it. The full extent of my promises have been small potatoes - like paying for a passport renewal or a quick shopping spree for new clothes. If the infatuation fades I still talk to them in Line, and possibly see them for short time on a next trip as a sort of weaning off period. After a while the boy understands that I have moved on, and so does he eventually.

 

I got experienced by getting hurt many times (technically nothing lost, I just waited and called and messaged the boy, and finally went alone).

 

There are far more instances where the boy said "Maybe", but meant "No", and I understood "Yes", than the other way round.

 

 

Have I been lucky? I haven't gotten stood up whenever I had a boy go to me to a trip. I've been with boys in Phuket, Chiang Mai, Pattaya (Tong from Tawan driving me), around Bangkok, and Cambodia, and this December Myanmar. Maybe I am due for one. Maybe I will be hurt at some point.

[ChristianPFC]

Have I been lucky? I haven't gotten stood up whenever I had a boy go to me to a trip. I've been with boys in Phuket, Chiang Mai, Pattaya (Tong from Tawan driving me), around Bangkok, and Cambodia, and this December Myanmar. Maybe I am due for one. Maybe I will be hurt at some point.

 

I guess your trips were more spectacular and if you took boys from bars, you probably paid them? In my cases, there was nothing more than a day trip to temple/museum/cinema/whatever, with me paying for food and transportation and entry.

 

Regarding Yes/No/Maybe:

http://www.armeniapedia.org/wiki/Radio_Yerevan_Jokes

Question: Can a woman serve as a diplomat?

Answer: No, because a woman and a diplomat use differently the words Yes and No. If a diplomat says Yes, it means Maybe. If a diplomat says Maybe, it means No. If a diplomat says No, what kind of diplomat is he? On the other hand, if a woman says No, it means Maybe. If a woman says Maybe, it means Yes. If a woman says Yes, well, what kind of woman is she?

 

[Guest]

Selling a used car can be an equally unpleasant experience.

Punter phones up. Asks a few questions, I answer, essentially verifying what is in my comprehensive ad. Punter agrees to see car at 3:00 pm following day.

However, the punter has no intention of showing up. Often he gives the game away by forgetting to ask the address.

 

Or buying:

Q: And you're advertising a full service history ?

A: Yes

Q: How many service stamps are in the book? And when was the last service ?

A: Not sure, think it was done about 3 years ago.

 

Or in its worst form, drive 50 miles to discover a completely misdiscribed piece of junk

 

Boys are relatively reliable.

[ChristianPFC]

From "The Little Prince" (Original: Le Petit Prince) by Antoine de Saint Exupéry,:

 

Il avait pris au sérieux des mots sans importance, et était devenu très malheureux.

My translation: He took serious words uttered without meaning, and became very unhappy.

 

Le langage est source de malentendus.

Language is the source of misunderstandings.

[Guest ryanasia]

Haven't read through this but what a gem. lol The guy will hardly sit there and idly wait for you unless you are sending cash. In that case it is your right to set dates when ever you want to. If you don't pay enough every month to keep the guy out of the bar it simply won't be an issue. Hookers are used to broken promises. Trust me there are no tears on the pillow. They are used to the "millionaires" and what they tell them. 

 

I would say 10 years ago maybe it was different, these days that shit doesn't fly. If you pay them money their inherent lack of curiosity makes it pretty much certain they won't do anything but go to the mall. They don't want to go to Bali and probably wouldn't even know where that is. 

[vinapu]

 

And be prepared to not trust them, like Christian told, because of their different education. 

it would be beautiful world if we could trust people just because they are educated but unfortunately those are different qualities and not synchronized at all