Why no decline in female go go bars?

[abidismaili]

I read in one of the threads here that female go go bars still have many customers, and that business is going fine.

 

Many blame the dating apps for the demise of gay go go bars. But if that is really the root cause, why do these apps not effect female go go bars? You would expect the same demise there.

 

The number of Farangs is higher for hetero sex, I know that. But still, you would expect less visitors there also. Are the female bars less crowded than before the rise of the dating apps? If not, then what is it that makes the gay go go bars go downhill? Why do the apps have consequences for the gay world and not for the hetero world?

[Guest abang1961]

Well many non-PROfessional gay men use gay apps to find their next MEAT..

For the sex workers, gay apps provide them with a new avenue of finding clients.

 

One more thing, gay men are horny unlike straight females.. Gay men need release (whether free or paid) but for a female, there is this little element of "dignity"...So the straight men have to go to the bars for their rendezvous whereas gay men can hook up with another horny gay man at the press of the buttons...

[Vessey]

Can I add ladyboy bars into the discussion. There are a great many ladyboys in P4P in Pattaya, but actually not that many dedicated ladyboy bars - I am thinking pretty similar to the number of boy bars - but with a different distribution of course.

 

There are, however, a large number of ladyboy 'freelancers' across the city, but usually quite clearly evident along Beach Road and Walking Street where they intermingle with the even larger number of girl freelancers.

 

There are also the odd ladyboys that mix with the girls in otherwise predomiantly 'girlie' bars. (Most guys who go with ladyboys will insist that they are not gay).

 

Those dedicated ladyboy bars often have a wide 'mix' of ladyboys from the one with surgical breasts through to those that are femme-boys; indeed a couple of ladyboy bars have been reported with the odd twink boy on the staff. 

 

Most ladyboys I know also rely very heavily on social media and on-line 'dating' sites to hook up with potential customers. 

[Brummbaer]

Just like the old song

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/W8r-tXRLazs

 

Internet killed the gogo-bar.

 

I see similar things in Europe. Since I moved to Vienna 18 years ago a number of gay bars have permanently closed, one after existing almost 50 years, another just short of their 25th anniversary. Up until the late nineties or early twothousands those bars were busy and easily made a profit. With everybody getting an internet connection, there was no need any longer to meet people in bars and pubs to hook up, you met in chatrooms or message boards. Customers stayed home, bars had to close. With widespread use of smartphones and apps, now chatrooms are empty, too.

 

It's sort of a vicious circle. As customers can now order their dish of the day by app to their home, they don't need to shop in the bars. As customers stay away, boys (and bar owners) will make less money. Boys will turn to the apps if they have a smartphone and capable of speaking/reading english, bars are forced to close if they don't make enough to at least break even. And if there are no boys, the remaining customers will stay away, too.

[vinapu]

I read in one of the threads here that female go go bars still have many customers, and that business is going fine.

 

Many blame the dating apps for the demise of gay go go bars. But if that is really the root cause, why do these apps not effect female go go bars? You would expect the same demise there.

 

 

mu guess will be that girls are less inclined to use tech gizmos and boys are more tech savvy.

 

For those who think it's sexist explanation I have version B - perhaps gay men are more tech inclined then their hetero brothers?

[Guest]

Are we sure the numbers of straight gogo bars are as high as ever ?    Since they are spread over various areas of town, someone would have to check quite carefully to confirm there is no decline in some of the streets.   

Even I couldn't tell you if the number of bars in Jomtien has increased or decreased in the years I go to Thailand, since I spend my evenings  in Sunnee or Boyztown.

 

Then if the number of tourists from the Middle East & such dreadful places where you can get your head chopped off for being gay has increased, the proportion of gay tourists from there could be less.  

[abidismaili]

 

Then if the number of tourists from the Middle East & such dreadful places where you can get your head chopped off for being gay has increased, the proportion of gay tourists from there could be less.  

 

You mean because of the high risks for a gay Arab to be recognized in Thailand by non-gay Arab visitors? So they stay away?

 

Same I am wondering about for some time. Why do gay Arabs risk being seen in Sunee or Boyztown? Knowing the danger for them when someone back home finds out. 

 

Arabs visiting Thailand are probably from rich golf states (so not Iraq for example). So they have money. Easy blackmail target.

1) By Thai boys for example, who can threaten to post their picture on a large Arab website (so there is a risk a friend or family member sees it) unless he gives money.

 

2) By Farang tourists. Of course most people won't blackmail others but when I see the average hetero sex tourist, I wouldnt be surprised there are some criminals among them. They would see an Arab gay in Pattaya as a blackmail target. Follow them, talk to them, get their name, secretly make pictures of them with a Thai boy. Easy. Gay Arabs take irresponsbile risks by visiting Pattaya. 

 

I am sure quite a few European hetero sex tourists receive black mail money monthly from a gay Arab who took the risk going to Pattaya. Gay Arabs dont only have a risk back home, they also take risks in a highly popular tourist destination like Pattaya. 

[abidismaili]

 

 

Internet killed the gogo-bar.

As customers can now order their dish of the day by app to their home, they don't need to shop in the bars. A

 

I understand for clients of prostitutes. They dont need a bar anymore. But if you are looking for a boyfriend in the Netherlands say, then gay bars are still a good place. Are there men who found their boyfriend via an app? The apps are for sex dates. But how to find a boyfriend without gay dating venues?

[Londoner]

 Ten years ago, Pattayaland Soi 2 was packed every night, the area around Penthouse particularly so. Cats' Whiskers and The Classroom always seemed particularly busy- at least from the outside. The area was so popular that it ran its own tuk-tuk service across the city. Now it is a ghost-town. The go-go bars are still there but a glance through the doors will show that they are doing no better than the gay bars in Soi 1.

[hanan]

Imho I think prices and (lack of) fun factor are the main reasons many boy gogo bars fail. People go to a bar to enjoy. Not to pay 250 baht for a beer and to constantly being harassed by a ladyboy mamasan.

A few bars have understood this, like Eros, and they seeme to have an ok number of customers.

[vinapu]

 

I am sure quite a few European hetero sex tourists receive black mail money monthly from a gay Arab who took the risk going to Pattaya. Gay Arabs dont only have a risk back home, they also take risks in a highly popular tourist destination like Pattaya. 

I'm quite sure you are exaggerating threat, if that would be a case news were spread among community and warning issued.

 

And if you are right why you singling out hetero Europeans for blackmailing, do you think that say gay Americans or hetero Arabs,  just to name a few options , are closer to sainthood whens comes to  blackmailing.

[vinapu]

 But how to find a boyfriend without gay dating venues?

just by smiling at one spot by chance on BTS perhaps ?

[abidismaili]

I'm quite sure you are exaggerating threat, if that would be a case news were spread among community and warning issued.

 

And if you are right why you singling out hetero Europeans for blackmailing, do you think that say gay Americans or hetero Arabs,  just to name a few options , are closer to sainthood whens comes to  blackmailing.

 

Of course criminal Americans etc can also be inclined to blackmail a rich gay Arab. I won't be surprised it has happened already. Big risks these gay Arabs take in Pattaya. You don't hear it in the news because these gay Arabs pay their monthly hush money.

[Guest abang1961]

I am a week away from my Pattaya trip and this time, I am tempted to talent-scout an Arab to warm my bed..

I promise Santa that I have been a good gay man (cannot call myself a boy anymore), so perhaps he shall fulfill his part and give me that elusive man, be it White or Arab.

 

Anyone game for a meal?

[Alexx]

Of course criminal Americans etc can also be inclined to blackmail a rich gay Arab. I won't be surprised it has happened already. Big risks these gay Arabs take in Pattaya. You don't hear it in the news because these gay Arabs pay their monthly hush money.

That's a great business idea, thank you!

 

Seriously though, I think you are nuts. It's not the first time you've brought that up, yet you've never presented any kind of evidence for that kind of extortion actually taking place. The thought that sex tourists, of all people, would engage in that kind of activity while on holiday is quite ludicrous. Now, had you claimed that some shady members of Pattaya's illustrious expat community might be up for it, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

[steveboy]

I promise Santa that I have been a good gay man (cannot call myself a boy anymore), so perhaps he shall fulfill his part and give me that elusive man, be it White or Arab.

 

 

I don't want to curtail your enthusiasm, but... Isn't Santa Claus a Christian ? (he replaced Saint Nicholas) 

So can a Christian figure give you the present of a MAN?

What if true to his moral values he gives you a GIRL?    

[Brummbaer]

What horrible thought. He should probably ask Kris Kringle and not the greek bishop of history - although...  greek... that bishop might just know about male/male love. He was only some 3 centuries removed from ancient Greece

[Travellerdave]

I'm in Pattaya now and tend to wander about a little lot. The hetro sex industry seems to be in good shape in what I suppose is high season now. I don't know how many str bars, gogo's, massage parlours etc there are - maybe 1000 with an average of 20 girls each so 20000 sex workers. As far as I know there are no comparable "dating" websites to Planet Romeo.

The gay scene is far more subdued compared with when I first discovered Pats 14 years ago. In addition to BT and Jomtien Complex Sunee was thriving then with perhaps a dozen gogo's. Perhaps there are now less than 500 boys in the gay bars and gogo's catering for gays like me. Maybe nearly the same number look for customers on the Internet.

The increase in ladyboys in recent years is interesting . Like Vessey says it remarkable that men claim to be str after enjoying anal sex with ladyboys. I wonder how many boys make the transition by starting to use make up, grow long hair and put on high heels etc.

[abidismaili]

Seriously though, I think you are nuts. It's not the first time you've brought that up, yet you've never presented any kind of evidence for that kind of extortion actually taking place. 

 

I am not nuts. I know there are criminals in the world and it is pretty save to assume Pattaya is a good destination for them to spend their crime money. 

 

Most people know that being gay in Arab countries is a death penalty if it is found out. Criminals also know this.

If they see a gay person with above average income (a save assumption with most Arabs in Thailand, they come from gulf countries) who risks death if his home country finds out, they see this as an easy blackmail target.

 

I fail to see why it is nuts to assume this is already happening. A gay Arab is stupid in my eyes if he doesn't think about this. 

He can not really complain when he is being blackmailed. Any intelligent person must see the risk.

If I travel to a known high risk kidnapping area, say Afghanistan, and I am being kidnapped, can I complain really? Or do I get what I deserve for my irresponsible actions? Should people be rewarded for irresponsible actions? Isn't that unfair towards all those people who are more responsible in life? 

[Guest whall]

You need to provide facts and evidence to back up your assertions. We just went through an election, in the US, were the candidate that won would say things that had no basis in reality and the lies became facts. So now, a lot of us, require facts and evidence if stating something like you just stated.

[abidismaili]

You need to provide facts and evidence to back up your assertions. We just went through an election, in the US, were the candidate that won would say things that had no basis in reality and the lies became facts. So now, a lot of us, require facts and evidence if stating something like you just stated.

 

I don't say it is happening, I only say I wouldn't be surprised. And it is not a far fetched assumption. In fact I would be surprised it didn't happen. Like I would be surprised if no murders happen in a year in a big city. That also would surprise me.

[Londoner]

To be blunt, I suspect that abidsmalili is too obsessive about Arabs. Their impact on Pattaya life is minimal and on  the gay scene

almost non-existent.

I suppose the fact that I've spent so much time among Arabs (Christian and Muslim) in Palestine makes me less likely to stereotype.

[Guest]

The reason I suggest fewer Arabs (& neighbours) patronise the gay places is due to their beliefs and laws. After all, if I were living in Tehran, I wouldn't risk searching gay Thailand, so might not even find out about it, never mind visit.

It may be similar to a greater or lesser extent in other countries in the region.

[DivineMadman]

A think a lot of people already know about the StickmanBangkok.com website and weekly columns.  He has long written about the Bangkok straight bar scene.  If you take his observations over the years as reasonably reliable, then the premise of the OP's question is simply incorrect.  According to Stickman the straight bar scene has very much been in decline.  In his view one reason is not so much the apps as online escort agencies.  The columns make interesting reading.

[Alexx]

What abidismaili is conveniently sweeping under the rug when mentioning that (certain) gay acts attract the death sentence in (certain) Arab countries is the burden of proof required for a conviction.

 

In many cases, you need actual eye witnesses. Providing some flimsy video material of Ahmed X hugging twinks in Boyztown simply won't be enough.

 

Then there's the question of jurisdiction. It's not a given that all those countries that criminalize "sodomy" will try acts that have been committed on foreign soil.

 

All things considered, a potential extortionist will have to do quite a lot of homework when selecting their mark. Hardly something feasible for a sex tourist who is busy, well, having sex.