Bringing an iPad with x-rated photos

[Shonen]

I think they could prosecute much of the population if they wanted too. Many people have illegal porn on their devices, some know and hope they get away with it. A single man coming from Thailand can give them a reason to search further and there in is the risk.

 

After reading Nirishguys post I'm more inclined to leave my iPad home.

[DivineMadman]

Some general thoughts and then a couple of specifics.

 

Pictures where the subject looks like he is 14?  Eeew.  Really, really, really hope your friend was kidding when he said that.

 

If the U.S. has been checking you thoroughly you might be in a database that the U.S. shares with Thailand (or other countries).  The U.S. most certainly does cooperate with Thailand on these matters.  I have no idea if Thai Immigration is plugged into this, but if you come to the attention of/under the scrutiny of the Thai police for any reason and your name is "flagged" in their computers, they may well check your devices and forget about burdens of proof in Thailand ...

 

The law in the U.S.

 

There is some technical precision to the statement that, here in the U.S., the government has to "prove" the image is of a "child" (i.e., below whatever age the particular statute specifies).  Age is an element of the crime and the government has to "prove" each element.  However, it is simply and unequivocally false to suggest that the government has to prove that by means of hard evidence such as birth certificates or such.  

 

The age of the subject of the image (the victim) can be determined by the jury (or the judge) based just on the image alone. 

 

So to put this in the context of the rule "the government has to prove each element of the crime":- (1) the government introduces the photo, (2) the defendant says, I don't have the guy's I.D., but I got it off the internet, and he's asian, not young" and (3) the jury says, "we think it's an underage individual" ==>  PROVED.  

 

For the doubters:  Two quick examples I found in 5 minutes research:  

 

The Statute In New York  "Whenever it becomes necessary ... to determine whether a child ... was under an age specified... the court or jury may make such determination by any of the following:  personal inspection of the child;  inspection of a photograph or motion picture which constituted the sexual performance;  oral testimony by a witness to the sexual performance as to the age of the child based upon the child's appearance;  expert medical testimony based upon the appearance of the child in the sexual performance;  and any other method authorized by any applicable provision of law or by the rules of evidence at common law."

 

New Jersey jury instructions:  "A person who is depicted as or presents the appearance of being under the age of 18 in any photograph, film, videotape, computer program or file, video game or any other reproduction or reconstruction may be inferred to be under the age of 18.  It is not a defense that the defendant did not know that the [child][children] [was] [were] under the age of 18 or that the defendant believed that the [child][children] [was] [were] 18 years old or older, even if such a mistaken belief was reasonable."   (Emphahsis added)

 

In the U.S., some State or Federal child pornography laws may have different knowledge rules, but don't count on protection there.  The New Jersey rule quoted above is a good example - it is not a defense that you reasonably thought the subject of the photo was 18.  Child pornography are deliberately meant to be extreme.  

 

Of course, as a defendant you would be permitted to make the case to the jury that the subjects of the photos are not underage, but good luck.  Don't expect sympathetic juries, don't expect expert medical testimony ("They're not young, they're asian") to come cheap, and of course the point is that if you're already at trial your life is in the crapper anyway.  

 

The rules are harsh.  Prosecutors don't have the time or inclination to go after everyone, so they are not going to go after everyone, and judges (and juries) are good at protecting against over-reaching applications of rules like this.  Still, why risk it.

[firecat69]

firecat is simply out of his depth ignore him.

You are unbelievable. Please present your copy of a Law Degree or stop telling people what is legal and what is not because unless you have that Law degree you are completely ignorant of the facts.

[vinapu]

After reading Nirishguys post I'm more inclined to leave my iPad home.

Upon return from one of mt LOS trips I was asked by border official to show him my vacation pictures.

 

It was easy as I don't take  my boys pictures and even if I did thy are invariably older and manly but this delayed me quite a bit.

 

If  I had something like half dressed  pictures I imagine it would delay me even further  so I make sure there's nothing on my devices just in case

[paulsf]

San Francisco is probably the worst place to enter as a single male arriving from SE Asia. Many reports of confiscated computers.

60 minutes did a story about it a few years ago. I've been asked more than once, why do I go to Thailand so often.

I just say I'm retired and it's a good place to vacation cheaply. It's never been escalated beyond that.

[steveboy]

Why use TrueCrypt if all is legal? The USA is a free country, you can't be convicted if someone looks 17 but is 18-20. It is up to them to prove he is 17 and not of legal age. If you buy porn from a legal website you know he must be legal age (legal porn sites have age certificates). So why go through the TrueCrypt hassle?

 

Also your option is not 100% save. You use a video player or photo viewer to view the files, yes? The Operating System (Windows for example) often stores on disk thumbnails or complete versions of recently accessed files. So when you close TrueCrypt there is a chance the file you just viewed is stored in a temp directory by Windows somewhere on your pc. So your solution is no solution.

 

It goes beyond being legal or not.  It is a matter of privacy.

If someone steals my laptop or tablet and gains access to the files in it, 

or if I inadvertently leave it unprotected,

it can reveal information I like to keep private.

This goes not only for gay porn but for any other confidential information.

 

This is the reason I create encrypted files with truecrypt. 

They are easy to create, and easy to mount as virtual disks to access the content.

On log out or shut down, the virtual disks in memory go up in cyber-smoke.

I doubt that the operating system makes any copies.  Instead it may create shortcuts to the files.

Windows saves pointers to recently accessed files.  But if the encrypted volume is dismounted, it cannot find the files.

[Guest Fred1]

I understand that a significant percentage of teens and tweens have porn on their devices. I wonder when this sh1t will hit the fan?

I'm quite dumb regarding computers but I found "Clouds" easy to use. I use MEGA or YANDEX. When travelling to Thailand I upload stuff to the cloud then delete it from my computer. I assign a password to the cloud that only I can access. I even delete the cloud program from my computer then in Thailand I go to the cloud web site and install the program again and sign in.

[abidismaili]

People who say they use the cloud that is also not save. I know Microsoft scans all photos which are being uploaded against possible cp. If you have a young looking Asian of legal age, then there is a risk this tool will flag the photo. Many cloud services scan photos.

 

This thread worries me. Luckily I am no American. Because gays who love Asian twinks have of course legal porn with some boys in it looking 17 or even 16 to a Western eye. It is unfair you can be convicted because of that fact. It makes all gay Asian twink lovers free for blackmail in the USA.

 

Because if you know in America someone who is into gay Asian twinks you can blackmail him. We have the risk someone will say to us "You are going to give me 4000 dollars every month or I go tip the police that I saw cp on your pc". You have no cp, but still you will be convicted when police searches your computer. Because as an Asian twink lover it is guaranteed you have legal porn with actors in it looking like 16 or 17 for many Western jury members. Which is enough for conviction if I am to believe the above.

 

So it is best as a gay Asian twink lover to remain in the closet. Else you can be blackmailed and you have no defense. A jury - I understand - can convict you when they think he is 17 and not 18. That is all the legal proof needed.

 

Amazing. And grossly unfair to us.

[Shonen]

The guy I'm seeing in Thailand is 28, but with make up on looks about 20 to me.when I take photos on skype, if it's blurry he looks like 16. That's just how it is.

 

There is a twink site that I went to, where they do something to the photo that makes them look like a child, but the movie itself shows their normal look, all over eighteen. Then they try to scare you by popping up a long list of violations you have committed. At first I was worried until they wanted$500 sent to them, which was an obvious scam. Maybe not the site but a virus.

 

On tumbler they have anime children having sex. I don't watch it but when you surf Gay tumbler youre bound to come across it. Because it's a drawing and not real it's allowed. But I don't think there would be much sympathy having that stuff found along with Asian twinks.

[abidismaili]

But I don't think there would be much sympathy having that stuff found along with Asian twinks.

 

I don't understand because nearly all human beings can feel lust for 16 and above. 

Nearly all human beings prefer a 18 year old above a 40 year old for sex when given the choice between these two options only.

 

So the sympathy for you should be immense when they see a lot of your porn has actors around 18-20, some of whom look like 16-17.

 

Because nearly EVERYONE hearing about your story will know "I am like that too, I too prefer in general an 18 year old above a 40 year old. In my own porn collection I must look good to see someone above age 25. The only above age 25 guys which appear in the average gay porn collection is of videos with old+young, 50 year old with 20 year old". So the sympathy for you will be nearly universal. Only dumb people and hypocrits will not feel sympathy.

 

You only wont receive sympathy with truly underage and certainly below 16.

[Guest ryanasia]

You are unbelievable. Please present your copy of a Law Degree or stop telling people what is legal and what is not because unless you have that Law degree you are completely ignorant of the facts.

I will show me yours if you show me mine.

[firecat69]

I don't have to because unlike you I am not stating legal facts which neither you or I have any background. Stick to things you know something about!  As numerous posters have posted since your ridiculous assertions, you really have no idea about the risk or any protection that could shield you from troubles with the Law.

[NIrishGuy]

I will show me yours if you show me mine.

 

Ahhhh what sweet memories, as that was the very first line that got me into playing around with guys in the first place :-)  Unfortunately now as I'm getting on it's more like they're saying "it's ok, we've seen yours you can put it away again now", but I'm not going down without a fight  - or at least 1000 baht for my troubles if I'm made to go down on them in the first place ! :-)

[bkkguy]

I am always both amused and horrified by threads like this on forums like this and wonder why the original poster bothered starting the thread - if you are not technically competent enough to answer the original question yourself in the first place then you are probably not technically competent enough to separate the bullshit from the useful responses

 

as the old saying goes free advice is worth every penny you pay for it, and forums like this are full of "experts" however while making holiday decisions based on dubious advice about a hotel or bar may be an inconvenience on more complex issues the results may be more significant so consider carefully the source of the advice being given!

 

bkkguy

[steveboy]

I will show me yours if you show me mine.

 

Hmmm... am I reading backwards or is there some major misconstruction here?

[kokopelli]

Someone I know of recently flew from Thailand to USA and was questioned and searched by Customs for about 4 hours for no reason other than a single male coming from Thailand. This person had nothing of any sexual nature with him or on any of his phones or laptop etc. 

[abidismaili]

I wonder if they also search single females who return from Thailand. 

I see females all the time in gay go go bars.

 

I know many women are into twinks also. For many boys in Europe their first time is with a teacher or neighboor.

 

If females aren't searched is this discrimination against men based on their sex? I would sue the immigration officer for discrimination.

[Guest FossilGay]

For many boys in Europe their first time is with a teacher or neighboor.

 

 

 

For me it was with my rabbi.

[Guest whall]

I'm shocked. TSA can check your photos? I don't have any pics like that but I'm shocked they can do that.

[abidismaili]

I'm shocked. TSA can check your photos? I don't have any pics like that but I'm shocked they can do that.

 

And if you do have pics of a legal age Thai twink who looks maybe 16-17 to Western eyes you have a big problem, even while you did nothing wrong.

 

So what I will do next time: make photo of the ID cards of all boys I off. Because I do tend to make pictures of the boys I off.

[paulsf]

Not TSA that checks your computer, it's Customs and Border Patrol that does.

[Guest whall]

And they can do that? Tell you to turn your computer on so they can look around? That just doesn't seem right.

[DivineMadman]

Yes, Customs can search your possessions, including computer and electronic devices.  They can do so without a warrant.

[Guest ryanasia]

And they can do that? Tell you to turn your computer on so they can look around? That just doesn't seem right.

 

You can refuse the check. At that point they will seize your computer and get a warrant. Not quite sure how it works after that but I believe after they have a warrant they can compel you to give a password or face contempt of court charges. However they do it if they want to see inside your computer it will not be easy/pleasant to refuse them. You will probably be detained for some time as well. 

 

I am not exactly sure this is exactly how it would play but have heard stories like this. It will also be a federal offense and this means prison and probation isn't possible. You will also do 85% of sentence as parole isn't a part of the federal correctional system.

 

If you have nothing and just want to stand up for your principles plan on being there a few hours. Make sure you already have the number of a lawyer as well. Customs and border officials are scary sadistic people in my experience.

[DivineMadman]

It is long-settled U.S. law that Customs searches at borders do not need a warrant.  See, for example, 1977 Supreme Court case "United States v. Ramsey."  So customs agents can ask you questions, check your bags, turn on your devices and look around.  They can make their decision based on their judgment and experience.  No warrant is needed.  

 

If you have a password on your device and refuse to open it for the Customs agent, or have a lock on your bag and refuse to open it, I think you will find that the agent will seize the property and can have it sent to a lab to be opened.  Whether there are additional penalties for failure to cooperate with a Customs agent in a lawful search, I do not know.