English Lessons for a Thai Boy

[Gaybutton]

No point paying for the boy to study English unless he wants to learn.

 

Exactly. 

 

I can only tell what I've seen for myself all too often.  The well meaning farang comes to Thailand, meets a boy, wants to establish a meaningful relationship, and wants to try to help the boy by sending him for English language lessons.

 

Look what usually ends up happening.  For whatever reason the boy never finishes the lessons, the money is gone, and it brings a bitter end to the relationship - if the relationship wasn't, in reality, one-sided to begin with.

 

You know the old saying - the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

 

The only way I would ever even consider having the boy take English lessons would be to casually mention if some time he wants to take lessons, let me know.  If he does let me know, has also shown a genuine interest, and he has asked to take lessons, it might be worth a try.

 

But if the boy is pushed or pressured into it, the chances of success, again based on what I have seen for myself, are somewhere between zero and none.

[ChristianPFC]

To me, if the reason why some farang want to send the boys to learn to speak English is to be able to better communicate with them, then those same farang would do well to start learning to speak Thai.

 

The situation is asymmetric. For a Thai, it is much more beneficial to learn English than it is for a Farang to learn Thai. The Thai can use English all over the year (and all over the world if he can travel) with other Farang in Thailand, the Farang can use Thai only when he is in Thailand for holiday.

 

Assuming the Thai has a job, it will be difficult to find time to attend classes after work and commuting (that can be solved by the Farang paying the Thai a monthly amount so he can spend all his time learning English).

 

But it's already a poor start if the boy's English is poor. Those who are talented and committed can achieve a good level of English from going to school (multiple personal experience, in a group of boys who might have the same teacher, level reaches from some words to fluent small talk).

 

One would have to consider different learning patterns as well. I can learn better in a classroom than online, reading/writing is easier for me than listening/speaking, and I like grammar.

 

For the OP, I suggest try it but don't expect too much. And make sure you know where your money goes (to the school, without a way to for the boy to get a refund).

[vinapu]

.....and I like grammar.

 

 

they must to have some pills or vaccines for that

[Guest ryanasia]

You're not going to like my response.  I've had quite a bit of experience over the years with it - none of it good.  Many well meaning farang have tried putting these boys through English lessons.  In every case it was an utter failure - not because the school isn't any good, but because the boys won't go.  In every case I've personally dealt with or simply heard about, the boys might go a few times, but they always get bored with it or find it too difficult and just drop it.

 

I've seen times when the boy goes once or twice and then gets the school to refund the money - to himself.  End of lessons and end of money.

 

I remember one time when a hapless farang was in Pattaya for a holiday, made the common mistake of falling in love with a bar boy, convinced himself the boy had fallen in love with him too, and was going to pay for English lessons for him.  He at least had sense enough not to give the money for it until the moment he left.  He asked me to take the money and pay the school.  I usually won't involve myself with other people's money, but this time I did.  I was there the night he departed.  He gave me the money when the taxi arrived at his hotel, The Ambiance, bid the boy a tearful goodbye, and drove off in the taxi.

 

I am not exaggerating.  Before the taxi had even rounded the corner the boy was already trying to get me to give him the money, about 20,000 baht as I recall.  No way.  The next day I took the boy to the school, paid the school, and left the boy there for his first lesson.

 

He went twice.  I later found out he got the school to refund him the unused portion of the fee - nearly all of it, and the boy disappeared, never to be seen in Pattaya again.  Once again we ended up with a heartbroken farang with a much lighter wallet.

 

That farang, by the way, is a member of this board.  If he's not too embarrassed, maybe he'll corroborate this story.  This was around 8 or 9 years ago.  He's learned quite a bit since then.

 

My advice to your friend - forget it.  Don't do it.  Repeat:  Don't do it.  And if his response is something similar to "Not this boy.  He's different." then he's setting himself up for the same heartbreak.  It might not even be entirely the boy's fault.  If mama finds out that the boy might be able to get his hands on that money, believe me the money will be gone.  I hope your friend doesn't have to learn the hard way.

 

Want another story?  How about this one.  Another farang friend gave a boy a lot of money for English lessons.  Another "Not this boy.  He's different." He trusted the boy to spend the money for the lessons while he was in the USA.  A few months later, when he returned to Thailand, he discovered that not a single baht had been spent for English lessons, but it all had indeed been spent.  You know what the boy spent the money on?  He became a lady boy and spent the money for breast implants.  End of relationship.  Oh well, at least he was right about one thing - the boy was different.

 

Every once in a blue moon a boy will really go through the lessons.  In all the years I've lived here, I've seen that happen a grand total of once.  And the boy's English wasn't all that much better than it was when he started.

 

I've never heard of the program bucknaway is recommending.  I'd give that a try before parting with a lot of money.

 

If your friend wants better communication with the boy, instead of paying for English lessons for the boy, he'd be much better off finding a school or hiring a tutor himself and taking Thai lessons.

 

I am amazed that I agree with GB on something. don't invest too much into Thai guys. They don't have the drive. Any smartphone which they are likely to already have has a billion resources to learn English. I have bent over backwards to help Thai and Lao people but they don't seem to be able to carry the torch very well. I estimate over 70% of most ventures eventually fail and that is being generous. If the guy really wants to learn then I suggest they do it together when the foreigner is around. You can make simple games and it can be fun. I learnt Thai consonant classes using flash cards while drinking with moneyboys for example. Let's just say I am better at it than they are. 

 

If he wanted to learn English he would do it already. Most of your successful money boys will have a certain degree of proficiency. The one's that don't lack the inclination. Don't waste your friend's money on this there are books for children that he could have bought already. 

 

You can give a Thai money boy the world but all they want is money. Pearl to a pig comes to mind, particularly if the boy himself didn't express the interest to learn first. Buy him 1,000 Baht worth of books, that's all that would be required with the availability of the internet these days.

[Guest ryanasia]

Yes, but you're here in Thailand living with them, aren't you?  That's vastly different from farang who are in Thailand for a two or three week holiday, but then return to their home countries where they are not in a position to oversee what the boys are doing - or not doing.

 

To me, if the reason why some farang want to send the boys to learn to speak English is to be able to better communicate with them, then those same farang would do well to start learning to speak Thai.

 

An English language school that focuses on written, rather than spoken, English is not going to be all that much help unless the farang and Thai boys plan to communicate by writing letters to each other. 

 

This is spot on.

[Guest ryanasia]

On the other hand, does anyone know any online sites where one can learn Thai language :-) ?

 

Here is a youtube series by a language school in Thailand. They have a weird approach that you do not need to speak or practice at all. I am not sure how far along you are with Thai but watch this video 3 times without trying too hard and I am sure you will pick up some vocabulary, it would be hard not to. The male teacher in the video is my type so that always helps. 

 

 

For anybody with intermediate levels of Thai this video may seem somewhat repetitive and stupid. They basically are taking the approach of how you would teach a baby and the series is produced by own of the more successful Thai language schools in Bangkok. I went there one time for an example lesson and they teach it exactly like this. I went there the day after the Erawan Shrine bombing so went away with an interesting take on a shocking subject that I would not have been able to converse about. 

 

Anyway here it is and I think most people that know a few words can learn a few more from this.

 

[Guest Steve1903]

 

I remember one time when a hapless farang was in Pattaya for a holiday, made the common mistake of falling in love with a bar boy, convinced himself the boy had fallen in love with him too, and was going to pay for English lessons for him.  He at least had sense enough not to give the money for it until the moment he left.  He asked me to take the money and pay the school.  I usually won't involve myself with other people's money, but this time I did.  I was there the night he departed.  He gave me the money when the taxi arrived at his hotel, The Ambiance, bid the boy a tearful goodbye, and drove off in the taxi.

 

I am not exaggerating.  Before the taxi had even rounded the corner the boy was already trying to get me to give him the money, about 20,000 baht as I recall.  No way.  The next day I took the boy to the school, paid the school, and left the boy there for his first lesson.

 

He went twice.  I later found out he got the school to refund him the unused portion of the fee - nearly all of it, and the boy disappeared, never to be seen in Pattaya again.  Once again we ended up with a heartbroken farang with a much lighter wallet.

 

That farang, by the way, is a member of this board.  If he's not too embarrassed, maybe he'll corroborate this story.  This was around 8 or 9 years ago.  He's learned quite a bit since then.

 

Ahem 

Is it at this point that I look a bit sheepish. Yeah that would've been yours truly. That said, if you believe that was 8 or 9 years ago GB then you're a fair bit older than you think you are. 

[Gaybutton]

Ahem 

Is it at this point that I look a bit sheepish. Yeah that would've been yours truly. That said, if you believe that was 8 or 9 years ago GB then you're a fair bit older than you think you are. 

 

Don't feel bad or embarrassed.  You are by far, very far, not the only one who fell into that typical trap.  It also took a lot of courage on your part to post and let it be known it was you.  I admire that.  We all were new here once and I'll bet most of us had our own share of learning-the-hard-way experiences - me included.  Those kinds of experiences might make an interesting new topic - if people will admit to them.  I'm going to start that topic on my own board.

 

I guess I'm wrong about how many years ago it was.  How many was it?

 

What you went through reminds me of one of my favorite quotes - one I've posted many times over the years.  Richard Burk, former owner of the Amor restaurant, is the one who said it when I was a newbie in Thailand.  I didn't understand then why he said it, but I for sure understand it now, and I have a feeling so do you and probably many more than just us.  Here is the quote:

 

"If you want love in Thailand, rent it."

[Guest ryanasia]

Carl Icahn "If you want a friend get a dog."

[Guest Steve1903]

Don't feel bad or embarrassed.  You are by far, very far, not the only one who fell into that typical trap.  It also took a lot of courage on your part to post and let it be known it was you.  I admire that.  We all were new here once and I'll bet most of us had our own share of learning-the-hard-way experiences - me included.  Those kinds of experiences might make an interesting new topic - if people will admit to them.  I'm going to start that topic on my own board.

 

I guess I'm wrong about how many years ago it was.  How many was it?

 

More like 12-14 years ago. Maybe you could nail the actual year by way of your guy at the time (Sam?), same year you split with him. Brings back nice memories of that holiday and the lovely time I had with the delicious Darren.

As for being embarrassed, not at all. I've been way more stupid than that as folk would know if they had read my posts from years past and in any case I'm fairly shameless with what I'll admit to.

[TotallyOz]

don't invest too much into Thai guys. They don't have the drive.

 

If he wanted to learn English he would do it already. Most of your successful money boys will have a certain degree of proficiency. The one's that don't lack the inclination. Don't waste your friend's money on this there are books for children that he could have bought already.

 

I disagree totally.  Some have the drive. Some don't. But, there are many reasons that they don't or have not leaned to speak English.  We can't lump them all into the same category.  Much like they can't say, "don't invest too much emotion in a farang. They don't have the desire for love."  Again, both things are said but not true in many cases.

 

I have been very successful in getting Thai boys to speak English.  And, many still work in Pattaya and are very popular in the bar scene.  You are most welcome Pattaya Farangs!

 

IMHO, an investment into the right Thai boy can enhance both lives! And, if not an amount that is going to kill you, it is often more successful than playing blackjack in a casino.

[vinapu]

 

 Buy him 1,000 Baht worth of books, that's all that would be required with the availability of the internet these days.

for boy who lives hand to mouth internet may not be as available unless he finds place where it's free and he can use it for extended period of time

[Gaybutton]

IMHO, an investment into the right Thai boy can enhance both lives!

 

Yes, of course.  That's not the problem.  Finding the right Thai boy in the first place - that's the problem.

[TotallyOz]

Yes, of course.  That's not the problem.  Finding the right Thai boy in the first place - that's the problem.

 

I have been lucky in that regard. But, I think part of my success is giving boys the freedom to be with me and have their own life.  Most farangs want boys to only be with them and make them their life.  I have never done that and both of my boys (over 12 years) have LTR with ladies.  I have met them, hung out with them and support them.  It doesn't work for everyone but for me it works well. 

 

There are tons of boys out there. They are looking for good farangs who do not want to change them. Love them and they will love you in return.  But, love them without expecting them to change. 

[Gaybutton]

We're getting a little off topic here, but I agree with Michael's post above.  I know one Thai boy who told me that on the rare occasions when farang he's with actually lets him go out on his own, he insists that he take photos of where he is and who he's with and send them back immediately.  Why do I have a feeling that relationship is doomed?

 

On the other hand, many years ago I was in a relationship with a Thai boy who was so insecure and so jealous that it caused major problems if I so much as glanced in the direction of another boy - and I'm not exaggerating. At first that was flattering, but believe me, that gets old fast.  It didn't take long for that relationship to go south. 

 

Michael, you might remember that.  We had an incident at one of your parties.  My crime was asking one of the boys where the bathroom is.  Kaboom!

[Guest abang1961]

It takes two to tango.

Even 

 

We're getting a little off topic here, but I agree with Michael's post above.  I know one Thai boy who told me that on the rare occasions when farang he's with actually lets him go out on his own, he insists that he take photos of where he is and who he's with and send them back immediately.  Why do I have a feeling that relationship is doomed?

 

On the other hand, many years ago I was in a relationship with a Thai boy who was so insecure and so jealous that it caused major problems if I so much as glanced in the direction of another boy - and I'm not exaggerating. At first that was flattering, but believe me, that gets old fast.  It didn't take long for that relationship to go south. 

 

Michael, you might remember that.  We had an incident at one of your parties.  My crime was asking one of the boys where the bathroom is.  Kaboom!

 

We're getting a little off topic here, but I agree with Michael's post above.  I know one Thai boy who told me that on the rare occasions when farang he's with actually lets him go out on his own, he insists that he take photos of where he is and who he's with and send them back immediately.  Why do I have a feeling that relationship is doomed?

 

if the farang is willing to pay the fee, it is up to the wonderful Thai boy/man to appreciate it through diligence.

Sorry GB, I am so thick-headed that I didn't understand your post.  Please enlighten me.

[Gaybutton]

Sorry GB, I am so thick-headed that I didn't understand your post.  Please enlighten me.

 

The Thai boy has a farang boyfriend.  The farang is so controlling that he only lets the boy go anywhere by himself or with friends if the boy uses his smartphone, takes photos of where he is and who he's with, and immediately sends the photos back to the farang's smartphone.

 

He's supposed to be a boyfriend, not a slave, and he expects the farang to trust him, which the farang obviously does not.  The boy is getting sick and tired of that.

[Guest abang1961]

OK pardon my ignorance about possessive boyfriends.

I have this idea that Thai boys are NOT exclusive to just one farang.

 

The notion" Out of side, out of mind" sound be deployed at all times.

That farang is overtly protective of his "find" and very insecure.

Remember you may have "paid" him for the time together and not the time of absence.

If and only if trust is mutual, I reckon I will "break-off" this kind of relationship without regrets immediately.

[kokopelli]

OK pardon my ignorance about possessive boyfriends.

I have this idea that Thai boys are NOT exclusive to just one farang.

 

 

All depends. Some Thais are exclusive to  one farang, although they may have other Thai bf, gf, lbfs. In other words they are not double-dipping since they could lose their primary source of income and security. 

[witty]

Pay the boys by the hour, and there will be fewer worries about loyalty and the real worth of the contract.

[TotallyOz]

A bit more off topic.

 

In Brazil, I had a boy staying with me who was very possessive even thought we had 3 ways and 4 ways daily. But, we were at a disco and dancing and this cute guy comes over to me to dance with me. My boy hauls off and starts to beat him.  He felt like the boy was invading his territory.  It was so sad. And, hot.  I think we fucked in the bathroom of the disco 20 min later. And, at the hotel that night.  Needless to say, some boys can be possessive when they feel their bread winner might be snapped away. 

[kokopelli]

A bit more off topic.

 

 But, we were at a disco and dancing and this cute guy come over to me to dance with me. 

 Now that is a sight I would love to see. Was it the lambada?

[numazu]

So I went to the AUA website and found some Bangkok branches. I talked to my friend about the website and we found this:

 

 

Looks like its 3800 ฿ for weekday classes and 4600 ฿ for weekend classes. There is a placement test for 350 ฿. These are 6 week classes, 2 times a week for 30 hours total. There are 15 levels, so he talked about getting the boy the Level 1 class, and see if he likes it. If he doesn't then my friend is only down 3800 ฿ and 350 ฿ for the placement. Seems like a good place to start without too much of a financial investment, and the hours are that they won't interfere with the boy's work at night.

 

Maybe this is a good way for my friend to be sure about his feelings for the boy, if the boy does this for him and be more proficient in English. I do hope they are successful. I want everyone happy .

[Gaybutton]

the hours are that they won't interfere with the boy's work at night.

 

Have you thought this through?  I hope you paid attention to your own words.  "if the boy does this for him."  For him.  That's just the point I've been trying to make.  Is the boy going to do this for the farang or for himself?  If it's not because he wants to take these lessons, how much do you and your friend think the boy will be thrilled with the idea of having to take classes during the day and then go to work at night?

 

Does the boy want to do this or is your friend going to force it on him?  If the boy is going to take these lessons to please your friend, how about your friend offering to also cover the money the boy makes by working at night so he at least won't have to work at night on top of these classes during the day?

 

Is your friend going to take Thai lessons?

[witty]

The onus is on the Thai boy. Does he want to improve his social standing and become independent. If he's motivated enough to finish a basic course(with the help of a well-intentioned sponsor), there is still hope that he will continue with his school or college or professional certificate that will enable him to get a steady & secure job outside the meat market.

There are many anecdotes about well-motivated students who work and study at the same time.

I came across a lady who belonged to a minority group in Vietnam when I was trekking in Sapa. She claimed that she was illiterate (not able to read or write Vietnamese and English), and that she learned English from daily interactions with tourists. Her command of spoken English was good enough to enable her to guide tourists around the ethnic villages. She was evidently well-motivated out of sheer necessity.