English Lessons for a Thai Boy

[numazu]

I have an American farang acquaintance I met a few trips ago and we've corresponded constantly since, just exchanging tips and experiences. Now he has a Thai BF and my friend would like his BF to take some English lessons while my friend is in between trips. I've met the boy and his English is not that good, but he seems game to learn and to get better at it.

 

I'm sure some of you here have had experience with helping your boys take English lessons. Would any of you recommend a good school or institution to go to for this? How much for the lessons? He is looking for a Bangkok school but maybe there are pattaya options as well.

 

Also as a follow up maybe those you who have had experience doing this can share their thoughts on the effectiveness of getting lessons. Did the boy's English really improve? Are the lessons effective? Was the opportunity squandered?

 

Thanks guys!

[bucknaway]

Have your friend have a look at duolingo. It also has an app along with a Web page that will help him learn english.

 

https://www.duolingo.com

 

The best new way to learn a language.

 

Learning with Duolingo is fun and addictive. Earn points for correct answers, race against the clock, and level up. Our bite-sized lessons are effective, and we have proof that it works.

 

See how we do it

Gamification poured into every lesson.

 

Read, Listen, Speak

 

Each lesson includes a variety of speaking, listening, translation, and multiple choice challenges.

[Gaybutton]

maybe those you who have had experience doing this can share their thoughts on the effectiveness of getting lessons.

 

You're not going to like my response.  I've had quite a bit of experience over the years with it - none of it good.  Many well meaning farang have tried putting these boys through English lessons.  In every case it was an utter failure - not because the school isn't any good, but because the boys won't go.  In every case I've personally dealt with or simply heard about, the boys might go a few times, but they always get bored with it or find it too difficult and just drop it.

 

I've seen times when the boy goes once or twice and then gets the school to refund the money - to himself.  End of lessons and end of money.

 

I remember one time when a hapless farang was in Pattaya for a holiday, made the common mistake of falling in love with a bar boy, convinced himself the boy had fallen in love with him too, and was going to pay for English lessons for him.  He at least had sense enough not to give the money for it until the moment he left.  He asked me to take the money and pay the school.  I usually won't involve myself with other people's money, but this time I did.  I was there the night he departed.  He gave me the money when the taxi arrived at his hotel, The Ambiance, bid the boy a tearful goodbye, and drove off in the taxi.

 

I am not exaggerating.  Before the taxi had even rounded the corner the boy was already trying to get me to give him the money, about 20,000 baht as I recall.  No way.  The next day I took the boy to the school, paid the school, and left the boy there for his first lesson.

 

He went twice.  I later found out he got the school to refund him the unused portion of the fee - nearly all of it, and the boy disappeared, never to be seen in Pattaya again.  Once again we ended up with a heartbroken farang with a much lighter wallet.

 

That farang, by the way, is a member of this board.  If he's not too embarrassed, maybe he'll corroborate this story.  This was around 8 or 9 years ago.  He's learned quite a bit since then.

 

My advice to your friend - forget it.  Don't do it.  Repeat:  Don't do it.  And if his response is something similar to "Not this boy.  He's different." then he's setting himself up for the same heartbreak.  It might not even be entirely the boy's fault.  If mama finds out that the boy might be able to get his hands on that money, believe me the money will be gone.  I hope your friend doesn't have to learn the hard way.

 

Want another story?  How about this one.  Another farang friend gave a boy a lot of money for English lessons.  Another "Not this boy.  He's different." He trusted the boy to spend the money for the lessons while he was in the USA.  A few months later, when he returned to Thailand, he discovered that not a single baht had been spent for English lessons, but it all had indeed been spent.  You know what the boy spent the money on?  He became a lady boy and spent the money for breast implants.  End of relationship.  Oh well, at least he was right about one thing - the boy was different.

 

Every once in a blue moon a boy will really go through the lessons.  In all the years I've lived here, I've seen that happen a grand total of once.  And the boy's English wasn't all that much better than it was when he started.

 

I've never heard of the program bucknaway is recommending.  I'd give that a try before parting with a lot of money.

 

If your friend wants better communication with the boy, instead of paying for English lessons for the boy, he'd be much better off finding a school or hiring a tutor himself and taking Thai lessons.

[farangyai]

I would encourage free online activity rather than spending money on classes for the reasons Gaybutton refers to.  The problem is that many of the schools start with grammar which bores the Thai guy.  By the time the course got to the point of speaking, it was too late in the process. I would look into a free online routine which is fun for the student. Many of the Thai English teachers can't even speak English.  Many Thai students have learned some English grammar but most Thai are afraid to try to speak it.  So practicing conversation is the best things for most of them.

 

It can be fun just practicing speaking with the boy. People learn best by doing as part of a fun activity.

 

I took a look at the site that bucknaway posted and it is not set up for Thai YET so I don't see how the guy could use it unless he speaks French or Vietnamese or one of the other starter languages offered?????????? Nice concept in the answer but not workable yet, but it appears they are working on it.

 

Meanwhile, if you do a search you will find a host of free sites to try.  Look for ones which have audio clips or sound out words.  Don't have the guy focus on grammar, he will not proceed very far.

[Guest]

Since English is widely taught as the first foreign language in schools, one could argue that anyone who has a real interest in learning would already have achieved some reasonable proficiency.    I know a few bar boys in that category.

[Guest ronnie4you]

Now, I gave a boy money to learn English. He thrived and read many books. Later, armed with his English, he went to college and graduated with a business degree. He became so accomplished in his business that he moved to the US and opened it there, actually competing with mine. Long story short- he's rich, I'm broke. Never give a Thai guy any money!

 

This is a light-hearted post meant to inject a little humor into the situation. No, it is not true.

[TotallyOz]

I have sent many boys to AUA in Pattaya.  It is a good school and they did well.  Most came out at least speaking a bit better.  It is more concentrated on written English as opposed to spoken but it helped. That combined with constant conversation, will help them. 

 

IMHO, I think giving a boy the chance to get an education, whether English school or a high school to finish their degree, is a wonderful thing that keeps giving back rewards and dividends in the future.  Both of my current LTB went to the school for 3 full terms and it paid off for them (and me).

[Gaybutton]

Both of my current LTB went to the school for 3 full terms and it paid off for them (and me).

 

Yes, but you're here in Thailand living with them, aren't you?  That's vastly different from farang who are in Thailand for a two or three week holiday, but then return to their home countries where they are not in a position to oversee what the boys are doing - or not doing.

 

To me, if the reason why some farang want to send the boys to learn to speak English is to be able to better communicate with them, then those same farang would do well to start learning to speak Thai.

 

An English language school that focuses on written, rather than spoken, English is not going to be all that much help unless the farang and Thai boys plan to communicate by writing letters to each other. 

[numazu]

Haha wow. This looks bleak. Thanks for sharing, Gaybutton. I just copied and texted the entirety of your story to my friend. He has not replied yet. Hopefully it's a shot of reality he needs, or maybe it will strengthen his resolve to go through with it. I don't want to say too much about his situation here, even though he is not a member, but at some point he does want the boy to go to the USA with him, and having a better grasp of english would do the boy good. 

 

While having passing english is not a requirement for me to off a boy (and sometimes I've offed someone who could not speak and more english beyond the few words a money boy is obliged to know (What your name? Where you from? How long you stay Thailand?), I often self-select and the boys who stick with me the most have at least passing conversational english, either from the outset, or eventually through the course of their practicing his english with me. And the best ones, Dream Boy Thai guy and Cambodia Boy, had either a college degree, or was given english lessons in Cambodia.

 

And thank you, Michael, for the Pattaya suggestion. I have passed this information along as well. Congratulations on your success with the boys. I wish the boys would invest the money they earn on getting an education, instead of all of it going directly to mama and papa.

 

Anyone else have any suggestion or stories?

[Up2u]

I have sent many boys to AUA in Pattaya.  It is a good school and they did well.  Most came out at least speaking a bit better.  It is more concentrated on written English as opposed to spoken but it helped. That combined with constant conversation, will help them. 

 

IMHO, I think giving a boy the chance to get an education, whether English school or a high school to finish their degree, is a wonderful thing that keeps giving back rewards and dividends in the future.  Both of my current LTB went to the school for 3 full terms and it paid off for them (and me).

I share Michael's view, for every story like GB's I know far more success stories but the key is the boy has a true interest in going just not to make a farang happy. AUA is not limited to Pattaya but has locations in other cities as well. AUA is very reasonably priced.

[Gaybutton]

having a better grasp of english would do the boy good.

 

Up2U has it right.  There is a much better chance of success if the boy really wants to learn to speak English rather than being pushed into it.  Even then, unless the boy already has a good educational background - and a bar boy from the rice farm won't - there still isn't much chance of success.

 

If it were me, I wouldn't send him to a school in the first place.  I would hire a competent tutor for the boy and let him learn at his own pace.

[Alexx]

I'm mostly with Gaybutton and z909. If a guy has serious interest in learning English, chances are his English is already far above average by the time you meet him. There are many free resources available for those with a genuine interest.

 

That said, at some point a more formal approach is beneficial, and then I'd second the recommendation to go with AUA. Several of my Thai colleagues have studied English at their Bangkok school and I'm very pleased with the results.

 

Personally, I'd want to see some interest and effort using free resources first. Then I'd consider supporting these efforts by sponsoring an AUA class. That helps to avoid disappointments.

[TomNg]

On the other hand, does anyone know any online sites where one can learn Thai language :-) ?

[kokopelli]

Up2U has it right.  There is a much better chance of success if the boy really wants to learn to speak English rather than being pushed into it.  Even then, unless the boy already has a good educational background - and a bar boy from the rice farm won't - there still isn't much chance of success.

 

If it were me, I wouldn't send him to a school in the first place.  I would hire a competent tutor for the boy and let him learn at his own pace.

Yes, that is a good idea.  I did that with my bf and he did learn a reasonable amount. However after a year or so he was burnt out which was not surprising since his education in  early years was mostly playing hooky (not hockey) so not a good student.

 

His English reading skills are nil although he is able to read every text message on my phone which come from other boys so I have to delete them after reading. 

[TotallyOz]

My boys are with me now full-time but back when they were in AUA over 10 years ago, I was not in the country full-time. But, their continued payments were contingent on their attendance.  No way to know for sure, but they had certificates from each class and I went to talk to teachers several times. 

[vinapu]

 No way to know for sure, but they had certificates from each class and I went to talk to teachers several times. 

that's is what I'd call due diligence on financing farang side

[Gaybutton]

 Hopefully it's a shot of reality he needs

 

I doubt it.  Many farang will read this sort of advice, but most of the time they won't listen - especially if anyone comes up with a post saying he succeeded.  That's all it takes.  People hear what they want to hear.  The fact is most of the time sending a boy for English lessons is not going to work.  At best, it won't produce the desired results.  But I have a feeling you know as well as I do - your friend has already convinced himself that he has a "Not this boy.  He's different."

 

If there is an imperative business reason or a boy is going to be staying in an English speaking country on a long term basis, then getting English lessons for him is the right thing to do.

 

But if we're talking about a farang coming to Thailand every once in a while to spend a few weeks with his boy special, then why should the boy have to be burdened with learning to speak English?  I think the thing to do is for the farang to make the effort to learn to speak Thai.  And if someone is going to be spending significant amounts of time in Thailand, the ability to speak and understand Thai, at least in part, is going to be far more useful to him in the first place than the boy being able to speak a version of pidgin English that we often refer to as "Thainglish."

 

My opinion - if someone is going to be spending a lot of time in a foreign country, then don't expect the natives to learn to speak your language.  You're in their country.  You learn to speak theirs.

[TotallyOz]

Speaking English is a business decision for the boys.  It is a good one for them and to help them to advance this helps their life and your life.  I agree that I should learn to speak theirs. But, I can't.  I'm dumb that way. But, I have tried. 

 

I had a boy in Brazil for many years that I truly adored.  I met him when he was 18.  He just turned 18 and started working at a sauna the week I met him.  He spoke great English.  I was a bit shocked.  I asked him about this and he told me that he started working in a bookstore when he was 15 and used all his money to learn English. Why?  He said he knew his only way out of the Flavela was to learn English and work in the sauna. It worked great for him. 

 

When I was in Brazil, he was with me 24/7.  I had a better time with him than just about anyone. But, when away, he never asked for money other than going to school.  He wanted to learn German and French and another language.  He did.  He then moved to Switzerland and worked in a sauna there making much more money.  His languages opened up his life.

 

For most of us, the cost of a school is very little money and totally worth the chance to help a guy you really like.  I say go for it!

[anddy]

I agree with what has been said here about the boy's own motivation to learn the language. If he has it, he will succeed, if not, it will be a waste of time and money. At the same time, the learning process should be a fun experience, not boring and dull which studying grammar, for example, is by definition. Besides, studying grammar is completely unnecessary to be able to communicate in any language. Nobody EVER learned their first language by studying grammar. Grammar is an afterthought, taught only AFTER you have already mastered the language as a child. The same goes for reading and writing, which can come second after being able to speak, though it can be useful for an adult learner I'll concede. So picking a school that has a FUN teaching approach will help both the learning process and the learners motivation (especially a Thai boy's!)

 

 

I agree that I should learn to speak theirs. But, I can't.  I'm dumb that way. But, I have tried. 

Yes you can. You are not dumb that way, anyone can learn new languages. As a westerner, just don't try to use traditional language teaching methods when trying to learn a language as alien to western languages as Thai, being tonal to boot. That's a recipe for frustration. I speak pretty decent Thai by now, and rather effortlessly, too. And note that I put close to ZERO effort into it, only time and patience with no goals and no pressure on myself. The magic does work and is available for a rather cheap price at - AUA! (Bangkok only)

 

So if you live in Bangkok, learning Thai is actually quite easy. For the casual visitor trying to study it in their home country it will unfortunately be very difficult.

[Gaybutton]

Speaking English is a business decision for the boys.

 

I would agree if is a true business decision and it's the boy, not the farang, who made the decision.  For some strange reason, I would expect the average Thai boy to ask for a smartphone or a motorbike - or both - long before he would ask to learn to speak English.

 

When it comes to a farang who meets a boy while on a holiday here and wants to start up some sort of relationship with him, unless the boy makes it clear he's the one who truly wants to learn to speak English, then my view is if it's the farang who wants the boy to learn to speak English - to make life easier for himself, that's my idea of selfish.  Let the farang be the one to start learning his language instead of the other way around.

 

I'm sorry, but saying you're too dumb to learn to speak Thai, at least to the point at which you can hold a conversation and make yourself understood, is my idea of a pretty lame excuse for trying to make the boy learn to speak English instead.  What good is it going to do the boy to be able to hold his own with English back on the rice farm?

 

As I said, if there is a genuine business reason to learn English, that's one thing.  But trying to get a boy to learn to speak English, if the boy really doesn't want to, simply for the convenience of the farang, is not going to work and is also unfair.  If nothing else, while the boy is learning to speak English, at the same time the farang ought to be learning to speak Thai.  That would be fair, especially if the primary motivation is for better communication between the two.

 

I agree with every word anddy wrote.  I found it very easy to pick up Thai, even the tones.  Though I've lived in Thailand many years now, I learned most of it within the first couple years, and learned it simply by listening and trying.  Nothing particularly difficult about it at all.  Two very simple basic starting points:  In Thai the noun almost always comes before the adjective and in Thai the emphasis is almost always on the last syllable.

 

Bottom line, in my opinion - If you're going to send a boy to learn to speak English, then at the same time while he's learning, you start learning to speak Thai.  It's a two-way street.  You can even help each other.

[anddy]

Nothing particularly difficult about it at all.  Two very simple basic starting points:  In Thai the noun almost always comes before the adjective 

true, structurally the language is very simple, it's the tones that make it difficult (at the beginning) and it takes some time to develop an "ear" for the tones as well as the ability to produce them correctly (note: tone is not made by tone of voice, but a throat position, from which the tone automatically follows)

 

An observation regarding the adjectives coming after the noun: that's actually also true in French, so I found it not very unusual, though to an exclusive English speaker it may be. 

[gerefan]

The problem I find is the multitude of different Thai accents, particularly in Pattaya where the population originates from all over Thailand.

 

I went to a Thai Language school for some time and picked up quite a few words.

 

My Thai (such as it is) is probably spoken with a Pattaya accent and therefore most people don't understand it!

[Gaybutton]

My Thai (such as it is) is probably spoken with a Pattaya accent and therefore most people don't understand it!

 

Maybe, but since I also learned my Thai in Pattaya, it's only rare that I'm not understood anywhere I am in Thailand.  I have a feeling it's more likely you're getting the words or the tones wrong.  Many farang who think they can speak Thai fairly well simply ignore the tones when they speak.  Wrong!  Even with some of the simplest words, if you get the tones wrong, they have no idea what you're trying to say.

[Brummbaer]

I believe you have to teach yourself to listen to the different tones first and then try to replicate. My boyfriend tried to teach me the thai word for banana. I don't hear a difference yet, when I try to speak, but he keeps cracking up and tells me I should use the english banana until I get it right and don't ask for penis.

Growing up with german language and learning english. latin, french and dutch in school (not much latin. fench and dutch left, never needed that in the last 30+ years) I didn't experience tonal languages early in life, And I find the older one gets the more difficult it gets to learn another language.

[Guest]

The motivation issue works both ways.

 

No point paying for the boy to study English unless he wants to learn.  Obviously if he is working as a bar boy, it is in his interests to learn the customers language & when he has to retire from that profession, the language skills might just help him to get a customer facing job elsewhere.  However, if he has not reached such a conclusion, what is the point ?  

 

The farang needs to be motivated to learn Thai.   If he is currently working and only visiting Thailand for a few weeks a year it may not be a priority.   

I'm in that situation and at present a committed attempt to learn Thai is certainly is not my priority. 

Anyone who learns English as a foreign language can use it all over the world.  The moment we learn another language, it is usually only useful in a handful of countries.   I have a very good understanding of one other European language, which is in use in about 2.5 countries.  So whilst I understand it quite well, my ability to speak it has deteriorated through lack of practice, since most of my overseas trips are to places where it is not in use.

If I were to learn another language right now, it would be a different one for work purposes. 

The time to learn Thai will be either once I am certain I'm retiring to Thailand, or am starting to take breaks of 2~3 months plus in Thailand.  

However, I would expect to be studying the language if committed to live in Thailand.