Apprentices?

[Guest cdnmatt]

This is a topic I don't see discussed often, but it must happen.  Have you ever took on someone basically as an apprentice, and helped them onto a better path in life?  By this I mean in terms of raw knowledge / skill set(s), and not just giving money to help someone start a business / go to school / whatever.

For example, meet a young guy who is a little lost in life, unsure what to do, but doesn't feel like being a poor farmer (or prostitute) the rest of his life, and shows an interest in whatever skill set you've acquired over your life.  You have the skills, experience, probably some contacts and a good base to get him started, etc.  

Have you ever taken someone like that in, and if so, how did it go?  Did he learn much, and enough to help him earn a better living than he otherwise could?  Was he able to take the skills you taught him, and put them to use in day-to-day life?  How long did you mentor him?  Did you provide him with a job / work afterwards, or let him find his own way in the world?  Was there intimacy involved, and if so, how was that like?  An actual relationship with raunchy sex, or more of a caring / loving relationship where you take care of each other?  Do you still stay in contact these days?

I don't know, just any general stories like that, would love to hear them if anyone is willing to share.  I'm sure some members have been through something like that.
 

[Guest abang1961]

That's more an exception than rule.

I know we, the farangs, have big hearts and are very generous with the Thais.

However besides monetary rewards, what else can we give them?

Probably an education or money to start a small business?

 

If things go the way I'm planning, I really hope to open a gay guesthouse.

No, not those fancy ones but a simple one with bare essentials.

I can , of course, employ the locals and teach them the finer points in managing the place.

[Guest ryanasia]

All of my attempts at this sort of thing with SE Asian guys have pretty much failed. The problem is they will say yes to any idea you give them but they aren't really that driven to actually do it in my experience. I have tried this with gay and straight people. If you are going to put any amount of serious investment of your money or time be very careful how you proceed. 

 

Was it easy for you to pick up the skills you have or was it hard work? Is the skill you want to share easy to teach or pass on? Does it require expensive tools or costs to start up? Did he approach you to do this or did you make the first move? This is important because as I said earlier they will say yes to anything you suggest. I think if you mention something once or twice then let it go and if he isn't talking about it on his own accord you will find your answer about how interested he is in reality.

[Moses]

Hm... too much private questions

 

OK

 

Case A. 90's. 21 yo member of translated via Internet reality show (boys living in one home with many cameras) in East Europe -> minor model in Hugo Boss -> journalist in national radio. Business/marketing couching, mostly remote, visits 5-6 time per year, 4 years, intimacy: yes, by his initiative, just raw sex few times at time of my visits to his country.

 

Case B. 90's. Jobless  22 yo student at North of Czech Republic -> Honey farmer/manufacturer. 3 years of business/marketing couching, mostly remote. Intimacy: yes, once at the second year, by his initiative (too much alcohol). Investments in farmland, mostly paid back, I'm shareholder of his "honey-plant"

 

Case C. 90's. 21 yo dancer from Slovakia in the small night club in Prague -> owner of small guesthouse in Norwich (UK). 3 years of business/marketing couching mostly remote, small investments (paid back). Intimacy yes, only at first year: he fell in love with me, but I told him it isn't mutual. His mom still writes me emails, dad died 3 years ago. Few times I and few times we (me and BF) have been guests in their home for vacations.

 

Case D. 2000's. 23 yo seller of water at the market in Siem Reap -> owner of touristic business. Business/marketing/IT couching, mostly remote. 3 years. Intimacy: yes, once, just raw sex after big party somewhere at the second year. Small investments (paid back), bought him notebook as a gift after few first month when he proved his strenght.

 

Case F. mid of 2000's. refugee from one of exUSSR republic -> chief of IT security department in middle-sized IT company in Russia. IT/marketing couching, room in my house for first year. 3 years. Intimacy: yes, raw sex by his initiative. He is bi, already has family and kids, but sometimes still visiting me for sex, his father has been my guest few times, his wife knows about everything.

 

also I have few small projects (I call them "fishing poles") in my signature at this forum

 

With all guys I'm still in contact. 

[Guest cdnmatt]

All of my attempts at this sort of thing with SE Asian guys have pretty much failed. The problem is they will say yes to any idea you give them but they aren't really that driven to actually do it in my experience.

 

Yeah, I'm getting that.  He seems much more concerned playing HoN (Heros of New-something or other, I don't know -- some online game) than learning.  We've had a couple "lessons" though, and he has proven both, mental capacity and willingness to learn.  It's just software development, so free to teach him, and I have 15 years of experience.  If he's willing to learn, there's no reason I can't have him up to say $50/hour within 18 months.

 

Just a guy I met on Grindr, we chatted on Line for about 8 months before he came to stay with me for a few weeks.  I guess neither of us knew what to expect, but it was was pretty obvious from almost the beginning that a BF relationship just wasn't in the cards.  Nonetheless, we got along well, and he's clean, quiet and respectful, and it's just me and the dogs so no problems with him hanging out here.

 

Then he went back home, and after seeing me work from home as a software developer, decided that's a good idea.  He proceeds to tell me he's going to hit up his mom to send him to IT college, which means her life savings out the window, and a waste of 2+ years of his life.  Thankfully was able to talk him out of that, so he's back here now, and I promised to teach him.

 

I don't know, it's just this really weird, quasi relationship I've never experienced before.  We sleep in separate bedrooms, but always hug each other, cuddle in his bed together, he comes into my office and sits in my lap, we say we love each other, etc.  I can't say we love each other, but definitely care about each other.  No sex or anything, or at least not what anyone here would consider sex.  Intimacy though.  However, by no means a BF relationship, and we're hardly going to begin planning out our futures together.  Maybe what to cook for dinner, but that's about it.

 

Then earlier today kind of confirmed my suspicions.  Went into his bedroom to say hi, and there he was watching a documentary on Youtube in Thai about gay love in ancient Greece, and the mentor / apprenticeship thing.  I suspected after the first few weeks together that's how he began viewing things, and that confirmed it.  That's fine with me, and I don't mind.

 

Actually made him a sweet deal too.  All he has to do is a) clean up after himself of course, b) keep the floor clean (I hate doing it), and c) go to the store / market when I ask (recent health issues have me in bad shape, so need someone like him).  In exchange, I provide a nice home, take good care of him, and teach him everything I know.

[Guest whall]

I think you should get sex if you are doing all that for him. Imho

[Guest ryanasia]

$50 an hour in 18 months? You want to teach me how to do this? 

[Guest cdnmatt]

$50 an hour in 18 months? You want to teach me how to do this? 

 

I'm not certain yet.  I know he has the ability to learn how to develop software, but I still don't know what his problem solving abilities are like, and that's the most important thing.  Clients don't pay us to type code, but to solve their problems with creative solutions.

 

But yeah, $50/hour isn't difficult at all if you're good, or at least decent.  $50/hour is pretty mid-range.  A lot to learn though.

[Guest cdnmatt]

Geez Moses, it sounds like you've sure been around.  I really need to quit being so solitary, and get out more.

 

Thanks for the post, and awesome to know you've managed to help so many people.

[Londoner]

Robin Maugham's novel The Wrong People, set in Tangiers in the 50s, is precisely about this subject.... and although a work of fiction, some of the characters are based on real members of the gay community back then. Worth a read, if you can get hold of it.

[Alexx]

We have actual apprentices at work and I tend to do some of their training, but that has little to do with this thread, it's just business. I've never hired anyone because I like them or want to help, I think that's a recipe for disaster and it's best not to mix work and personal life.

 

From my experience, it's exceptionally rare that a Thai software developer can make anything near $50/h. Locally, nobody would pay that. Globally, it is of course often paid, but there's a lot of competition and Thais often lack important secondary skills to excel in such an environment. The idea to turn a random country bumpkin into such a high flyer sounds pretty outrageous to me, but please report back how it goes!

[Moses]

Geez Moses, it sounds like you've sure been around.  I really need to quit being so solitary, and get out more.

 

Thanks for the post, and awesome to know you've managed to help so many people.

 

Rule #1: you must to make conditions under which he will taste money from first steps. And give him a chance to be proud of his results. 

 

It is quite tricky. once I even anonymously bought honey (case B) from "my farmer" at his first steps - for to get him first results quickly. At another case (D) I spend some small money for advertising him in internet (he still don't know it).

 

Anyway youngsters are very outpatient (not sure if it is right word for "people who has no patience"),  so teacher/coucher has to have strategy to keep them working. "Just do it" and "Do as I told" don't work. You must to make his path marked by "candies" and be sure what he will find them by himself (or will think so). Only then it works.

[Guest ryanasia]

You say he seems more interested in video games at times. In this case just tell him you can teach him but it is up to him to initiate it. So if you say this and he doesn't ask you anything for more than a day or two you have your answer. You have made the offer now let him follow it up. Although it is just training you are offering a job pretty much and if he doesn't show up after a day or two what other conclusion could you draw? 

 

If he begins to ask you and seems to catch on there is a chance it will work. As others have said I really question if a Thai guy can develop the problem solving skills needed. My partner is the team leader of an IT firm in Bangkok and he says there isn't a Thai on the team that makes his life easier. He more or less has to work around them. 

 

Tell him when he wants to learn something turn his phone off and put it down and come to learn. 

[anddy]

are very outpatient (not sure if it is right word for "people who has no patience"),  

 

so teacher/coucher

 

it's "impatient"

 

and it is coaching and not couching, couching may be when you have sex on the couch (aka the sofa in some languages/areas, including Thailand) LOL . And the person/teacher giving the coaching is called a coach (not coacher or similar).

 

Anyway, your record as well as your approach and patience are very impressive. Congratulations to you and those guys for these successes! 

[Moses]

thank you,

 

English is my 5th language and my skills are very poor, I'm using some software, but sometimes I make wrong choice of words, I'm sorry

[captainmick]

Hm... too much private questions

 

OK

 

Case A. 90's. 21 yo member of translated via Internet reality show (boys living in one home with many cameras) in East Europe -> minor model in Hugo Boss -> journalist in national radio. Business/marketing couching, mostly remote, visits 5-6 time per year, 4 years, intimacy: yes, by his initiative, just raw sex few times at time of my visits to his country.

 

Case B. 90's. Jobless  22 yo student at North of Czech Republic -> Honey farmer/manufacturer. 3 years of business/marketing couching, mostly remote. Intimacy: yes, once at the second year, by his initiative (too much alcohol). Investments in farmland, mostly paid back, I'm shareholder of his "honey-plant"

 

Case C. 90's. 21 yo dancer from Slovakia in the small night club in Prague -> owner of small guesthouse in Norwich (UK). 3 years of business/marketing couching mostly remote, small investments (paid back). Intimacy yes, only at first year: he fell in love with me, but I told him it isn't mutual. His mom still writes me emails, dad died 3 years ago. Few times I and few times we (me and BF) have been guests in their home for vacations.

 

Case D. 2000's. 23 yo seller of water at the market in Siem Reap -> owner of touristic business. Business/marketing/IT couching, mostly remote. 3 years. Intimacy: yes, once, just raw sex after big party somewhere at the second year. Small investments (paid back), bought him notebook as a gift after few first month when he proved his strenght.

 

Case F. mid of 2000's. refugee from one of exUSSR republic -> chief of IT security department in middle-sized IT company in Russia. IT/marketing couching, room in my house for first year. 3 years. Intimacy: yes, raw sex by his initiative. He is bi, already has family and kids, but sometimes still visiting me for sex, his father has been my guest few times, his wife knows about everything.

 

also I have few small projects (I call them "fishing poles") in my signature at this forum

 

With all guys I'm still in contact.

 

I notice that you engaged in Raw Sex with A, D and F. Are you not concerned about HIV/ AIDS Moses?It seems irresponsible to go bareback with these guys. Would it not be better to be promoting safe sex as as well as business skills and be leading by example?

[Moses]

I notice that you engaged in Raw Sex with A, D and F. Are you not concerned about HIV/ AIDS Moses?It seems irresponsible to go bareback with these guys. Would it not be better to be promoting safe sex as as well as business skills and be leading by example?

 

May be it is misunderstanding. Oh, I should use more simple words and sentences ))) English....

I meant it was "pure sex" without relationships of lovers. "Just because body wants". Like sex btw friends. 

 

May be I should to add to my "signature"

 

 

 

English is my 5th language and my skills are very poor, I'm using some software, but sometimes I make wrong choice of words, I'm sorry 

[Alexx]

No worries, Moses, I'm quite sure captainmick deliberately misunderstood you just to write something dickish. From the context, it was perfectly clear for anyone with half a brain that you didn't describe the specifics (safe sex or bareback) of your sexual encounters, but meant no strings attached (no relationship, sex only).

[numazu]

No worries, Moses, I'm quite sure captainmick deliberately misunderstood you just to write something dickish. From the context, it was perfectly clear for anyone with half a brain that you didn't describe the specifics (safe sex or bareback) of your sexual encounters, but meant no strings attached (no relationship, sex only).

 

Apologies, I must have half a brain then . I too thought that "raw sex" meant bareback sex. Maybe its an American thing? A cursory google search of "raw sex" yields the urban dictionary definition and a slew of bareback porn. Thank you for the clarification Moses, it makes so much sense now . Regardless...

 

 

Case A. 

Case B. 

Case C.

Case D. 

Case F. also I have few small projects (I call them "fishing poles") in my signature at this forum

 

With all guys I'm still in contact. 

 

 

Fascinating stuff Moses! Looks like you are both very patient and generous with your "projects". I guess I had similar smaller-scale "projects" in the past. Nothing like a challenge right?

 

I can think of one major project, when I dated this 22-year old stripper in Las Vegas. I thought I could "save" him by taking him out of the business, putting a roof over his head, teach him a few things, help him with his resume and set him on a more traditional path to life. I was 27 at that time, so we weren't that far in age, but I had a great 4-year career by then, could afford a mortgage and had a fair amount of disposable income. So I thought this gorgeous boy who seemed to love me would be a good project to take on and hopefully would blossom into a long-term relationship.

 

It seemed to work for a few weeks. I taught him how to drive and helped him get his drivers license (he was kicked out of his home at 16 for being gay, so he did not have the chance to get a license), I helped him get a decent retail job. Signed him up for a few community college courses and thought he was well on his way to a legit lifestyle. But he got bored with his retail job, dropped out of all his classes, and eventually just bummed around the house. He probably was not ready to go this path, and I probably did not have enough patience to be more stern with his laziness, so the relationship had to end. I learned a lot from that relationship.

[vinapu]

 But he got bored with his retail job, dropped out of all his classes, and eventually just bummed around the house. He probably was not ready to go this path,

perhaps it was a case ' you can take boy out of bar but you can't take bar out of boy"

[Guest cdnmatt]

You say he seems more interested in video games at times.

 

At times???  Try 18 hours a day.  Problem is, I actually really enjoy his company and him being here, even if he isn't learning, which was the entire point of this trip -- to start his studies.  He's great to have around, helps take care of the house and dogs, costs virtually nothing, etc.

 

So not sure if I'm a dick for doing this, but got a bit frustrated this morning, and told him if he wants me to spend another minute helping him, he first has to at least attempt "Einstem's Puzzle".  Let's see if he even bothers with it, or just continues playing his game.  If you're wondeing, here's the puzzle.

 

 

This puzzle is named after Albert Einstein because he was rumored to have given it to prospective advisees as a way to determine the most dedicated and best students. According to Einstein only 2% of the population could solve the puzzle. Are you one of them?

 

Five people, each of a different nationality, live in five adjacent houses, each of a different color. Each person owns a different pet, drinks a different beverage and smokes a different type of cigarette. You have 15 pieces of information (see below) about the group. It is up to you to deduce who owns the fish!

 

1. The Englishman lives in the red house.

2. The Swede keeps dogs.

3. The Dane drinks tea.

4. The green house is just to the left of the white one.

5. The owner of the green house drinks coffee.

6. The Pall Mall smoker keeps birds.

7. The owner of the yellow house smokes Dunhills.

8. The man in the center house drinks milk.

9. The Norwegian lives in the first house.

10. The blend smoker has a neighbor who keeps cats.

11. The man who smokes Blue Masters drinks beer.

12. The man who keeps horses lives next to the Dunhill smoker.

13. The German smokes Prince cigarettes.

14. The Norwegian lives next to the blue house.

15. The blend smoker has a neighbor who drinks water.

 

Good luck!

 

I'm not sure if that 2% figure is right, and would imagine it would be quite a bit higher, as it's basically just a suduko.  Process of elimination, some trial and error, and you have your answer.

[Alexx]

Apologies, I must have half a brain then . I too thought that "raw sex" meant bareback sex.

Please don't get me wrong, by itself "raw sex" does usually refer to barebacking and I don't dispute the results of your Google research. My point was that - despite being the wrong term - the context made it clear that Moses wasn't sharing his bareback escapades with us. Same with "outpatient". Wrong term, but given the context and keeping in mind that it hasn't been written by a native English speaker, it doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that the intended meaning is "impatient".

 

Yesterday an American colleague complained to me that he got an email from a Thai guy working at our Bangkok office reading, "John? Is that the negro?". I did agree that it's a good idea to explain to that Thai colleague why he shouldn't write anything like that when sending an email to the US, of all places, but looking at it from the Thai guy's angle, I can see why he didn't think twice about it when firing that email. I'm just glad he didn't send that email to a client and that he didn't use the other n-word. Ouch.

[Guest abang1961]

"Einstem's Puzzle".

 

I got it..It's a little unfair cos I'm a Mathematics teacher and I used an Excel spreadsheet to fill in the gaps.

The owner of the fish is ... ok, I don't want to spoil the fun..I should email/pm you the solution...

[captainmick]

No worries, Moses, I'm quite sure captainmick deliberately misunderstood you just to write something dickish. From the context, it was perfectly clear for anyone with half a brain that you didn't describe the specifics (safe sex or bareback) of your sexual encounters, but meant no strings attached (no relationship, sex only).

Don't draw conclusions Alexx. I was absolutely not trying to misunderstand. The normal understanding of "raw sex" is sex without a condom. It is decried in urban dictionary as "Sex with lack of protection, condom-less. Is used mostly in the gay community to solicit intercourse without a condom with strangers. Synonym of Bare Back sex".

 

Given that Moses specifically described, the sex with three of the 5 guys as "raw", I thought he was specifying that he had barebacked with them which quite shocked me.

 

I can now see that Moses did not understand what "raw sex" means and perhaps you didn' either Alexx?

[Moses]

perhaps it was a case ' you can take boy out of bar but you can't take bar out of boy"

 

No, it was case: "all candies lay at the end of the long path". Such things rarely working. Youngsters need stimulus - small victories along the path. 

 

About "raw sex" - I didn't check it in glossary, my fault. Thank you everyone for explanation, next time I will use another wrong word )))))))))))))))

 

Let's discuss cdnmatt's case