Ask a former money boy anything

[Guest whall]

Yes it's a good thread. Very interesting life you've lead!

[Guest FossilGay]

This whole thread has been pretty cool and I find Ryan's life story honest and interesting.  Very different from the usual stuff you read around here.

 

Agreed.  Interesting, real, non-egotistical and even touching at times.  A very refreshing read.  Thanks again for sharing, Ryan.

[Guest Jason105]

I'm glad you "resurrected it" also!

 

Thanks for lots of interesting insights and observations.

[ozmouse]

thanks ryan.  enjoyed all your tales and insights.  as mentioned, your message was true and touching.  this is the sort of internet experience you savour when likes minds can gather in a safe space.  thanks again ryain. 

[steveboy]

My ex lives in America now and married his guy. The person in the sofa pic on the left side is my partner now after 19 years and we live in Bangkok together.

 

I also have to thank you for the insight into the life of a money boy.   It confirms some of my earlier thoughts.

 

Like the idea that being a sex worker is not so different from any other worker, but something one can choose to be and even find some enjoyment doing.  This removes one of my reservations about paying for sex, which I have done only twice in my life, first with a woman and later with a boy. I plan to start paying for sex as I am realizing that there is not much wrong with it. 

 

The other idea is that having sex for money does not corrupt the spirit, the moral of the person, contrary to what sanctimonious nonsense wants us to believe.  You are able to hold to a partner for 19 years now,  and this is exceptional.

 

I also have my partner for 19 years now.  A relationship that we started as boyfriends but is more of a friendship now. He does not mind my sex escapades, while he doesn't do the same.  I met my friend in a sleazy gay bar, a place where "one does not find quality people"...  Well... my friend met me there, and I am "quality people"...  and so is he!    

[Guest ryanasia]

I have some thoughts on this. Just too tired to say them now. Yeah sanctimonious is the way to say it. You get guys that come up with combos like this... FF BB PNP HI fun no money boys. lol It is like the fact they chase the bugs for free makes them some exceptional human being. You see this everyday online.

 

Most of my customers were chilled out. 

[kokopelli]

So what are your plans for the future?  You're too young to be retired and you don't want to suffer from brain rot like so many retired farangs in Thailand, whose only mission in what's left of their lives is counting how many twinks they can fuck for 300Bt and how many Philly cheese steaks they can stuff into their fat faces in a day.  Or worse, buying a bread-making machine and making homemade bread because their lard asses need the calories!!!

Now, now FossilGay, with a name like that you shouldn't be casting neoliths at other retired farang. 

[Guest ryanasia]

Let's stay away from the attacks. If anybody feels the need to take shots at somebody you can do at it me. So far the thread has avoided controversy which is surprising given it's nature. My straight friend read it and actually commented that it was the most up front Q&A thread he had ever read on the internet to not get completely trolled. 

 

Please don't use this thread to take shots at other people. I will come up with some sort of post later to get us back on track. Not sure what to write about though I think most the obvious things have been covered.  Maybe I will just tell a short story that has nothing to do with questions that have already been asked.

[steveboy]

Please don't use this thread to take shots at other people. I will come up with some sort of post later to get us back on track.

 

I will try to get back on track already with a question.

 

How important is for the money boys you know to cultivate and preserve their attractiveness?

Do they go to gyms, choose the best nutrition, stay away from vices that makes them age quickly? 

[Guest ryanasia]

Yes I went to the gym when I worked. I would find that when I was traveling around and didn't have  gym membership and drank a lot with customers I would begin to get a small belly. I solved this by taking a break and going back to the woods where I used to work. Drugs are part of the business and everybody handles that differently. 

 

I don't think your average rent boy is playing the long game in these regards though. When you are 22 you aren't thinking about being in the game and how you can extend this into your 30's. I think most of your rent boys are thinking more of how to land a guy who will take them out of the game earlier than that. At least that was on my mind. I know I had to stay reasonably healthy doing this job but how to squeeze another 5 years out of it through a healthy diet wasn't a part of that logic. 

 

There are some guys that work well into their 40s surprisingly enough and for that you have to have a great body. Normally your bodybuilder types can pull this off. I am sure they are on top of their game as far as health and diet goes. I don't think your average young guy who is bestowed with reasonably good looks approaches it in the same way.

 

That level of planning is more like how a professional athlete must go about his daily regiment. I was never like this and I haven't noticed this being built into the daily routines of the average Thai boy I would meet in Pattaya or Twilight. Certainly some of the Tawan guys have been on the scene longer than most and this is certainly not by accident.

[Guest ryanasia]

There is another thread going about crossing borders with pictures and things of that nature. The next installment I will add is how to avoid pitfalls at borders. I had to do it over 15 years and deal with visas (in places I wasn't a resident or in some cases working as a prostitute illegally even though the job was legal in that country) and was asked many awkward questions. So I feel I have some experience with such matters.

 

This was before the digital area so not necessarily how to hide butthole pics of your favorite Thai guy who looks 17 but more serious questions like how to deal with the IRS and the nightmare assholes collectively known as the USA border guard. Last time I went to the USA in particular I had many things to answer for and had an attorney before I got on the plane. I will tell you how I handled it and what I think the best course is. These are only my experiences so it certainly isn't legal advice.

 

I will give real life situations and not hypothetical scenarios.

 

Young man with no job, lengthy trips abroad frequently to dodgy places like Amsterdam.  This should become comical because quite frankly the US customs and border officers are some of the dimmest bulbs on the Christmas tree. 

 

I took a few different approaches before they finally let me through with out being harassed. I guess thinking about it taxes and freedom of movement were never brought up in this thread and are a big part of how I did what I did or why I am here now. 

[Jasper]

I have a question.

Have you had a serious relationship outside a money boy business?

Did he ask you to quit the scene once he knew what you do for a living?

What would you have done if he said he would leave if you don't quit.

 

I met a Thai bar boy who told me about his life being a straight man working at a Bangkok go go bar servicing mostly gay men.

He fell in love with a girl but lost her because he could not quit the job when she gave an ultimatum to sort out his life and quit the go go bar within a year. " I really loved her" he said.

I thought yeah but not enough to quit and live an ordinary life with her. Probably it's not easy to start a new life if you are used to easy money even he says " No bar boy want to work at go go bar if he had a choice"

[Guest ryanasia]

I have a question.

Have you had a serious relationship outside a money boy business?

Did he ask you to quit the scene once he knew what you do for a living?

What would you have done if he said he would leave if you don't quit.

 

I met a Thai bar boy recently and told me about his life

A Thai bar boy who is straight told me recently that he fell in love with a girl but lost her because he could not quit the job when she gave a ultimatum to sort out his life and quit the gay go go bar within a year. " I really loved her" he said.

I thought yeah but not enough to quit and live an ordinary life with her. Probably it's not easy to start a new life if you are used to easy money even he says " No bar boy want to work go go bar if he had a choice"

 

Interesting question I will put some thought into it

[Guest FossilGay]

Hi Ryan, I've got a question.  I've noticed that you have no qualms about using the labels prostitute/prostitution to describe yourself and your former profession.  I have no opinion on this - to me it is just another job descriptor - but I have many farang friends here who are uncomfortable with its use and try to skirt around it or use euphemisms like 'sex worker', 'working boy'. 'rocket science student selling his body on the side' etc etc.  Some of these farangs  are attached to former prostitutes and are therefore uncomfortable with the label.  What surprises me are the ones who butterfly and regularly visit pay-for-sex establishments who get very upset when they hear others call the boys prostitutes or moneyboys.  Is it guilt you think or does it arise out of their own sense of shame for having to pay for it?

 

What are your thoughts on this?  Thai people themselves can be very graphic when describing prostitutes and don't seem to have any problems with it.

[Guest FossilGay]

Now, now FossilGay, with a name like that you shouldn't be casting neoliths at other retired farang. 

 

Haha, you're right, Koko.  I shouldn't be tarring everyone with the same brush - there are retired farangs out there leading relaxing yet meaningful lives.  But believe it or not, the Philly cheesteak, boys for 300Bt and home bread making stories are true - life is often stranger than fiction in Pattaya!

[Guest ryanasia]

Hi Ryan, I've got a question.  I've noticed that you have no qualms about using the labels prostitute/prostitution to describe yourself and your former profession.  I have no opinion on this - to me it is just another job descriptor - but I have many farang friends here who are uncomfortable with its use and try to skirt around it or use euphemisms like 'sex worker', 'working boy'. 'rocket science student selling his body on the side' etc etc.  Some of these farangs  are attached to former prostitutes and are therefore uncomfortable with the label.  What surprises me are the ones who butterfly and regularly visit pay-for-sex establishments who get very upset when they hear others call the boys prostitutes or moneyboys.  Is it guilt you think or does it arise out of their own sense of shame for having to pay for it?

 

What are your thoughts on this?  Thai people themselves can be very graphic when describing prostitutes and don't seem to have any problems with it.

 

A lot of good questions tonight. Several of which I can tie into one explanation. Thanks guys for giving me some interesting things to think about. I will give my reply later is this one is bound to be a little bit lengthy.

[Alexx]

I'll be very interested in your border crossing story! Great idea to post about it.

[kokopelli]

Haha, you're right, Koko.  I shouldn't be tarring everyone with the same brush - there are retired farangs out there leading relaxing yet meaningful lives.  But believe it or not, the Philly cheesteak, boys for 300Bt and home bread making stories are true - life is often stranger than fiction in Pattaya!

 Well, I do live a relaxing life here but not so sure how meaningful it is but it suits me. As for boys for 300 Baht, that all depends on what they get for that 300 Baht. That would be a good tip for a little fun in a bar/club but miserly for any type of serious sexual encounter. But these farang justify their actions by using expressions like, "he was thrilled with my tip" or some other similar expression. Yes, life here is stranger than fiction.

[traveller123]

  But believe it or not, the Philly cheesteak, boys for 300Bt and home bread making stories are true - life is often stranger than fiction in Pattaya!

 

Oh dear when I relocated from England and brought my belongings over I included my bread making machine and I'm glad I did.

 

Apologies to Ryan I don't want to interupt his thread but I chuckled at the bread machine comment.

[Guest ryanasia]

Oh dear when I relocated from England and brought my belongings over I included my bread making machine and I'm glad I did.

 

Apologies to Ryan I don't want to interupt his thread but I chuckled at the bread machine comment.

 

It's okay let's just stay away from thornier subjects such as meatloaf shall we?

[Guest ryanasia]

I have a question.

Have you had a serious relationship outside a money boy business?

Did he ask you to quit the scene once he knew what you do for a living?

What would you have done if he said he would leave if you don't quit.

 

I met a Thai bar boy who told me about his life being a straight man working at a Bangkok go go bar servicing mostly gay men.

He fell in love with a girl but lost her because he could not quit the job when she gave an ultimatum to sort out his life and quit the go go bar within a year. " I really loved her" he said.

I thought yeah but not enough to quit and live an ordinary life with her. Probably it's not easy to start a new life if you are used to easy money even he says " No bar boy want to work at go go bar if he had a choice"

 

Hmmm I have had relationships but not really completely out of the "scene". I was sort of always playing the game even from a very young age. 

 

My ex BF in one of the pics was a real relationship as was my partner in the same pic pictured. Although one was a customer and the other was a working boy the same as I was. 

 

When I was younger like around 16 I had some other relationships but not sure they would qualify as being anymore legit than the ones I had in the scene. 

 

Either way I wouldn't have been responsive to an ultimatum to leave the business. Once you start making ultimatums to me you probably won't be in my life very much longer. Also I was earning well. I was attractive enough that finding a partner wasn't a big deal, I had plenty of offers on the table.

 

I would have probably laughed at you if you even suggested I give up access to cash cows at that point in my life. Yes, I could be arrogant. Imagine that a spoiled arrogant money boy who at times had an over inflated sense of his own self importance. I don't mean this is entirely a bad thing. Arrogance is part of the balancing act of this biz. 

 

Some fuck buddies I had that weren't in the business were merely only intrigued by what I was doing and usually would get over their moral dilemma when I flew them in to Japan to go to onsen resorts for the week. Sometimes I would obviously keep what I do to myself. It is funny how people will bend their minds to make a situation work. You could basically let them make up how you survive without a job. I must be a trust fund baby, yeah, that's the ticket. 

 

So in short term relationships it wasn't any different than playing a role and acting like I did at work. You play the part that is expected and everything else was on a need to know basis. You don't really walk up to a guy in a bar and announce that you make your living this way. At least not when you are sober. 

 

I can't imagine doing this job if I had been straight. Rough trade was always a mystery to me. This whole idea of it is hard to get out of the life seems bogus to me. Here is how you quit being a gogo boy in Thailand: 1. buy a bus ticket and go home. Most of the guys in the scene have a family and will not be on the street or in that bad of a place if they quit. 

 

I don't buy that there isn't a choice, at least for most of them. There was a time when I was young I did it for survival but once I was of legal age I would say it was a deliberate choice to continue. In fact it isn't the easiest job to stick with if you do it full time as your only income and you want to eat everyday. These guys sit around a bar for up to a week at a time to get their 1,000 Baht off fee. The really cute ones do better and if they are smart it helps but let's just use the average guy as an example. If you aren't the superstar at the bar you work in you are probably in the wrong place. 

 

With the apps it has never been easier to quit a bar if you should choose to do so and transition into a regular job. No boy bar want to be a bar boy but no bar boy want to be without an iPhone and there in lies the dilemma. They want the money but not the work that comes with it and you simply can't have it both ways. They can man up and live like every single other Thai does if they wish to. Nobody has a gun to their head.

 

I find they use their family situations to play the sympathy card. They always talk about sending money home but in my years over here I have never seen them actually do this. I am sure sometimes they do, I sent money back to the states sometimes myself. This wasn't the main objective of the job though this was a added bonus that I was able to help out from time to time. You gain a lot of face and look like a big man when you send a few grand home and are supporting yourself. 

 

If you doubt this, next time a boy says he sends everything home tell him okay you will help out. Watch the priceless look on his face when you say you will only do it if you send the money via western union directly to his Mother. That's like being told you are getting socks for Christmas. Don't actually do this.... his mother's name will become his friends. I was just illustrating my point. 

 

Most Thai guys are a full day bus ride at most from retiring should they want to. They are in the scene for the easy money and nothing more they would survive just fine doing something else. There are drug addicts and runaway youth and those sort of types with out options but the family in Thailand tends to be quite strong. Very few of them would not have a back up option should they need it. 

 

The way they tend to want to leave the scene is not go home to a poor farming family but rather have some westerner take care of them. This is understandable. However usually they are saying they hate the scene or wanting to get out of it they are merely fishing. I know the story well because I have used the same bullshit story as a tactic before myself. Later through trial and error I discovered this wasn't the best card to play because you will get offered real jobs or airfare to go home. lol 

 

Staying in the scene and grinding it out if it is your sole way of making a living is probably more difficult than leaving the scene if you want to make a good amount of money. 

 

2. Simply get too old. Pretty much every money boy that enters the scene at some point exits it. Unless something unfortunate happens to the boy he will one day have to leave the scene. The only variable is what they make of themselves in that time. After all, youth is wasted on the young. 

 

As far as the girl goes would she have considered dating him if he didn't have disposable income? Did she start dating him because he was flashing cash and wining and dining her? If so and then she found out how he got the cash later and delivered that ultimatum I would say he would be better keeping his cash to himself and finding somebody else. The likelihood she will remain with her any great length of time is slim to none once the money runs out. 

 

Leaving a good paying job (if he is actually successful doing it) to get married to somebody who loves him conditionally and ending up as broke as you started but now with a few kids probably isn't the smartest plan. I know it's a bit harsh but she is the one pressing the issue.

[Guest ryanasia]

Hi Ryan, I've got a question.  I've noticed that you have no qualms about using the labels prostitute/prostitution to describe yourself and your former profession.  I have no opinion on this - to me it is just another job descriptor - but I have many farang friends here who are uncomfortable with its use and try to skirt around it or use euphemisms like 'sex worker', 'working boy'. 'rocket science student selling his body on the side' etc etc.  Some of these farangs  are attached to former prostitutes and are therefore uncomfortable with the label.  What surprises me are the ones who butterfly and regularly visit pay-for-sex establishments who get very upset when they hear others call the boys prostitutes or moneyboys.  Is it guilt you think or does it arise out of their own sense of shame for having to pay for it?

 

What are your thoughts on this?  Thai people themselves can be very graphic when describing prostitutes and don't seem to have any problems with it.

 

The various terms and jargon I use are done so deliberately. It is somewhat funny to me that words that wouldn't make the most hardened whore squirm upset some of the more sensitive out there.I don't see prostitute as a word with a bad connotation to it. It is guilt and shame. It is the most clinical term to use akin to using homosexual to describe being gay. It doesn't sound the most flattering but isn't a word that by design is used to be offensive. If you need to put a label on it to soften it or help you continue self deception by all means use the term that makes you the happiest. 

 

This is probably the most common emotions in the business. There are no shortage of older johns  using hookers that come with all kinds of sexual and emotional baggage. For many of them they had repressed lives and grew up in a different time. They couldn't even utter the word gay let alone queer or fag back home because of the times. bla bla bla You get the idea. 

 

They don't exactly exude confidence in themselves or their sexuality quite often and they use the softer terms as a patch if not a mask. I am not sure what the hang up is about this. Technically the only polite term is sex worker according to PC etiquette of late. To this I say it is utter bullshit. If you date a prostitute and can't even come up with the dictionary term for that occupation you probably have issues. It is weird that money boy or rent boy is more commonly accepted on the gay sites. This is probably simply because it is how Thai guys say it so it gets a pass. But is money boy really more polite than saying prostitute or hooker? 

 

I have actually had small arguments in real life over this. It is pretty rich when a john tells a hooker what he can or can not call himself. Hustler was what we called it back in the day but it seems as of late because it is used in a lot of rap and hip hop this word seems to be more of a thug or common criminal. So I dropped using that term awhile back because it wasn't obvious to some people that I was offering sex not trying to mug them.

 

So no there aren't really any words that I feel offended by in regards to "sex workers". The boys in the west call each other by a variety of terms. The johns aren't exempt either. The polite term is "client" which always makes me laugh. Anybody who doesn't have gainful employment and mentions clients is doing something illegal usually.  

 

If these words make somebody uncomfortable imagine the earful of words I have heard and been called when you get some weirdo into verbal roleplaying. Trust me you get over it really quickly it goes with the territory. It seems it upsets the johns more than the working guys because the working guys usually have gotten over the stigma and are outside of society and it's rules.

 

The johns tend to get touchy because they are the more likely of the two to be trying to balance two lives.  If that makes sense. Just to reassure you we have offensive terms for customers as well. most people probably wince when I use john because it just doesn't sound nice but if I knew you as a customer and had no respect for you i would use the term "chump". That's pretty low on the totem pole.

 

Here is a song that sums up my feelings on the subject pretty well. It is a bit harsh if you haven't heard so I will leave the lyrics and a link. It is Jane's Addiction "whores" The second stanza pretty much sums it up for me. Imagine me cruising around the park at night rocking out to this trying to make a date. lol  

 

Way down low where the streets are littered

I find my fun with the freaks and the niggers

I dont want much man give me a little

Or Im gonna take my chances if i get 'em

 

I love them whores they never judge you

What can you say when your a whore?

They cast that pearl and it don't upset 'em

They take their chances if they get 'em

 

Hear me go off!

Give me some more!

Mother fucker!

Need a little more

Goddamn you!

Give me some more!

Mother fucker!

Give me some more!

 

You give me breadcrumb uh - hu

I'm tired of living the bosses' dream

They'll squeeze you dry man if you let em

Better take your - take your - take your chances if you get em

 

Hear me go off!

Give me some more!

Mother fucker!

Need a little more

Goddamn you!

Give me some more!

Mother fucker!

Give me some more

 

 

[Jasper]

ryanasia,

 

Thank you for the insightful comments.

 

His situation is perhaps slightly different from your case as being straight and with the girl he needed to think about quitting the bar, getting married, and start a family and raise the children. Also to their parent back home he portrays himself as being successful doing a glamorous day job. So riding a bus home isn't an option.

 

When he said there is no choice he meant that there isn't any other way to earn this much money with a regular job if you aren't a Uni graduate or without necessary qualifications.

Once a farang customer said to him " I don't want you to work in the bar" and offered 30,000 Baht monthly income but he turned down.

Because he says " it isn't enough" he needs 40-50,000 Baht to live on. He gave me a full breakdown of his monthly expenditure.

I also suspect he is addicted to be admired and worshipped like most bar boys they are very narcissistic. Who wouldn't be if you are young and beautiful with a great body.

I just hope he is planning a smart exit strategy for the inevitable future.

 

Oh and I am not his customer.

 

 

By the way I alway wanted to ask you about your tax status in US but afraid to do so as it's too personal?

I am glad to hear that you are covering the subject in the next instalment.

[Guest ryanasia]

So it is disingenuous of him to say he doesn't want to do it.   I am thinking of writing about airport situations and tax issues but am hesitant. It won't help the overwhelming majority of users here. There is a guy on another thread that put his shit in public and maybe it isn't the wisest idea. 

 

It is an interesting question. I am thinking about how to respond. 

[vinapu]

 What surprises me are the ones who butterfly and regularly visit pay-for-sex establishments who get very upset when they hear others call the boys prostitutes or moneyboys.  Is it guilt you think or does it arise out of their own sense of shame for having to pay for it?

 

 

I don't know what ryan will say but as your question fits my profile I can tell you that neither guilt nor shame.

 

Since term "prostitute" tends to be read as down-putting I don't like it being used to describe people who gave or at least tried  to give me lots of fun without any condition attached other than just compensation.