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numazu

Bangkok/Pattaya June-July 2016 Trip Report: To Butterfly or not to Butterfly

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Posted

Firecat, you have a problem constantly and tediously inferring what is not written & extrapolating from what is written.

 

Unbelievable! Attack??? I pointed out that CB denigrating Thai boys as being dishonest and using an example such as putting a worthless phone on the edge of a desk so it could be knocked off and damaged was just plain not true.

 

Whilst I am confident the phone scam would be perpetrated by only a minority of Thai boys, we have 2 pieces of evidence which suggest some do it.

(i) The post from CB (who seems like a nice character)

(ii)

I had to smile about the phone scam. I didn't know it was a scam and I remember a guy leaving his phone on the edge of the bed and pulling me to him. I was aware of the phone and stopped to move it to the nightstand and plug it into my charger. That's when he told me phone no good. I didn't give it a second thought.

 

First Thai boys are not in general dishonest

Irrelevant. Other than you, no one is suggesting they are. Extrapolation again. That's why you get into these dumb and pointless arguments.

 

not a single person has said that they have experienced this fraud.

Try reading the thread properly.

 

We have a whole another thread here where a member actually tried to make a case that Thailand is the Land of Scams for visitors.

Not true. The thread merely invites people to share scams so others may be aware of them.

In my opening post, I clearly wrote “Then, in all the years I've been coming here, I've suffered almost no scams. So I think the risk is very low. However, it still makes sense to know the tricks so we can recognise them.”

Posted

I'll be happy to keep the argument going because you make no sense. CB has no standing to be making comments about Thai boys being dishonest because it it to his advantage to denigrate Thai Boys to get more customers.

 

Bucknaway 's comments about someone putting a phone on the edge of the bed. Did I miss where the boy tried to scam him ? I must have! I've had hundreds of Thai boy phones on my bed desk, table etc. 

 

Again meaningless repeated drivel with no facts. Bucknaway did not get scammed by the phone on the bed and has no reason to think he would have.

 

The thread on scams got started because Bucknaway says he has been scammed repeatedly in Thailand. He must either be the unluckiest visitor to Thailand or the scams only happen to visitors to Lady and LadyBoy Bars. 

Posted

 

 

I am two weeks away from my next trip and your TR has gotten me all fired-up. Thank you!

and how many weeks we are from your reports ?

 

I still remember one you graced this forum with last year

Posted

Bucknaway 's comments about someone putting a phone on the edge of the bed. Did I miss where the boy tried to scam him ? I must have! I've had hundreds of Thai boy phones on my bed desk, table etc.

 

You missed part of the evidence.

 

The boy carries a phone around and places it on the edge of Bucknaway's bed.  When Bucknaway moves it, suddenly the lad says it is no good.

 

That sounds just like the scam CB described.   Or do we live in some kind of la la land where boys carry no good phones around ?

 

Then CB must have got the idea from somewhere too.

Posted

Phone no good could mean it no longer works for internet or that some functions don't work. Conspiracy Theorists like Bucknaway and apparently now you want to impart that as a possible Scam.

 

Ridiculous!. Did Bucknaway get scammed .No. In fact has has he listed one scam that he experienced personally from a Gay Boy or Gay Bar. The answer is no the same as the resounding response in the scam thread .

 

Look up the word evidence. No where in the definition is supposition or suspicion mentioned.

 

Let me know when someone personally reports this supposed ridiculous scam happening to them.

 

Until then I will continue to believe what everyone (including you) has posted in the Scam thread  that either they have never been scammed or Taxi driver tried to get flat rate.

 

And thus I will continue to encourage people who have never visited Thailand to be comfortable that they will be welcomed  and treated honestly and not worry about Scam Theorists.

Posted

I want to wrap up my trip report, and I think I have a couple of posts left. But I kind of want to see where this argument goes to. It might be more interesting than my posts.

Posted

Well it's actually very simple, the truth lies somewhere in between. Neither is Thailand a "Land of Scams" nor are all Thai boys honest. As for CB, I could imagine that he's been privy to quite a few stunts some of his colleagues have pulled off, so he thought it's a good idea to warn numazu in case he encounters one of these scams. That Thais tend to look down on Khmers and that many Khmers here aren't too fond of the Thais also isn't really a secret.

Posted

I never thought about the boy could return the jeans to the shop for refund. Haha :)

As with Numazu, I always give the receipts to boy and I always pay cash. So he could have done that easily.

But in this case, after he tried it on, he continued to wear them for couple of days. So I don't think he wanted cash that desperate.

Quite possibly he decided that that improving his status among his friends is worth it .

 

Once in Arena on two separate occasions  boys pointed to their friend's expensive shoes explaining that he just recently got them bought by grateful client.

 

It looks that Thai boys too not only want to keep up with Joneses , they want be Joneses from time to time like most of  us.

Posted

Please give us the rest of your report, it is much more interesting then discussions of supposed Scams.

 

Incredible.  The original scam report was an interesting & relevant part of the report. 

 

You drew attention to it by raising some rather illogical objections (post #253).

Had you not raised that objection, I suspect we would still be hearing trip reports.

 

I'm also very grateful that the trip reports include all these stories.

Posted

Numazu, I'm looking forward to you filing more reports...in the meantime, I suppose there is some wry amusement in observing an argument that goes round and round, back and forth, and continues even after all sides seem to acknowledge the need to pause.

 

I've mentioned before how much your jottings are valued by me and from the comments by so many others.  You have taken your friends like CB  and DTG from being possible potential caricatures and made them fully realized characters, individuals with their own experiences, traumas, and views of life.  

 

Again, thanks...

Posted

ggobkk's post +1

 

This was easily the most enthralling reports I've had the pleasure of reading here. So personal, so engaging, of course so sexy, full of suspense, too. Looking forward to the wrap-up, but will be missing something when it's done - until the next one hopefully  ;)

Posted

That was a wonderful series of trip reports and it was a joy to read all of them. Thanks a lot for sharing! :)

 

You earlier asked me about why Thai colleges are bad for one's moral uprightness. Nothing too serious, just the usual combination of hazing, cheating and jealous intrigues, I figure from what I've heard.

Guest abang1961
Posted

Goodbyes are always hardest to say... regardless who that person(s) is/are.

Just say goodbye to a young heterosexual American lad at the airport myself yesterday.

 

I met him on line while he was travelling in South East Asia, more or less a backpacker after completing his studies in May this year.  This is possibly the first time I had invited a younger stranger to stay at my place for a week.  Funny enough although he was cute as a button, it was platonic all the way even though I told him I'm a gay man.  He slept in the adjacent bedroom but I have had the opportunity to see his "goods" when we went swimming at Sentosa.  It was the kind of friendship between an older man and a 25-year old.  During his stay, I edited his resume and even offer to be his reference, if there is a need.   He was NOT exactly a shy person who "talks" to different gals while in Singapore. 

 

So I'm NOT a cougar..

Posted

Day 18: Me No Like Airports

 

 

 

 

Did I tell you I hate airports? It takes me away from the ones I love, the ones I cannot stay with permanently, because I have chosen to live a life separate from them. I love them with all my heart, but circumstances and choices find me saying goodbye to them anyway. They know the reason why I have to say goodbye, even though they may hate it. I definitely know the reason why I have to say goodbye, and I definitely hate it.

 

Great installment that left me with tears in my eyes as well, not just in sympathy for what you were going through, but because it evoked still-all-too-raw memories of my own 'goodbyes' on past trips. 

Posted

Easily the best trip report ever because of the willingness to share your deepest feelings.

 

Your general appreciation of the boys you meet in Thailand enable you to have these type of experiences . Many of us feel the same way about the boys we meet and are unwilling or unable to recount those feelings .

 

That is why we react negatively when posters want to focus on scams (almost none reported) and thefts .  I apologize  for derailing your thread for a short time when I should have started a new thread commenting on my thoughts about supposed scams.

Posted

CB would naturally love to divorce you from Thai Boys which of course limits his competition.

 

Somehow I think you probably understand this?

 

When CB tells me these stories, it's not couched as "Thai people are bad" or "Thai people only do this." Its more in the general concern of wanting me to be careful with other strangers. He is full of tips when I am with him. From bargaining at the shops, taking cabs and mocys and Baht buses, and even seeing money boys. The number one thing he tells me is "Please do not die." when I tell him in Line I am offing someone else or taking a plane ride. 

 

He knows I am a butterfly, and does not stop me getting other boys. Getting him to be in a threesome with said boys is another matter. 

 

Whilst I am confident the phone scam would be perpetrated by only a minority of Thai boys, we have 2 pieces of evidence which suggest some do it.
(i) The post from CB (who seems like a nice character)
(ii)

Not true. The thread merely invites people to share scams so others may be aware of them.
In my opening post, I clearly wrote “Then, in all the years I've been coming here, I've suffered almost no scams. So I think the risk is very low. However, it still makes sense to know the tricks so we can recognise them.”

 

CB is unnecessarily protective of me sometimes. CB has a panoply of things he tells me when he shares about some insider money boy stuff. I always tell him I am fascinated by knowing some of the things boys do, the stuff boys say, to get as much money from us. I encourage him to tell me this stories. I am sure he talks shop sometimes with his cohorts, and while I know that the boys he knows are not scammers, some of them have been around the block many times enough to see some of these in action. YMMV.

 

Well it's actually very simple, the truth lies somewhere in between. Neither is Thailand a "Land of Scams" nor are all Thai boys honest. As for CB, I could imagine that he's been privy to quite a few stunts some of his colleagues have pulled off, so he thought it's a good idea to warn numazu in case he encounters one of these scams. That Thais tend to look down on Khmers and that many Khmers here aren't too fond of the Thais also isn't really a secret.

 

Very true. Another fascinating thing to observe whenever I have intermingling between Thai boys and other SE asian boys. DTG is shocked (surprised with facial expressions) whenever I tell him about the boys I have had good relations with. I tell him about Xboy Guy, and then about Myanmar guy, and then he met CB. He is shocked that I liked a Burmese guy a lot, and when he met CB he then again made the mention of him being Khmer. With CB being prejudiced against Thais and Myanmar boy and CB hating being mistaken as Thai (to the point of tears sometimes), there is obvious inter-country tension between the three nations. 

 

I just want all of them to get along. Maybe not in threesomes haha. Although that would be great as well.

Posted

Hi numazu,

Thanks for your brilliant reports. It's brutally honest thoroughly enjoyable and thought-provoking.

I admire your honesty and courage to be open to criticism from forum members including me.

 

I wish you a good luck next trip to Thailand and happy butterflying.

 

PS Do you mind if I take DTG to a shopping trip with me. I am very curious what he is going to say to me. it's going to be "too expensive" or "yes please"? Am I evil and twisted? :)

Posted

Hi Numazu,

Thank you very much  for all the contributions to the forum.You articles are the best here and many are just waiting for you to write everyday.Do let as know your adventures back home in USA too and your travels to other countries as well.In the meantime take care we all in gaythailand are waiting for you to return to the land of smiles and you will also bring smiles to those who are reading your well written articles  too,Maybe you may consider changing your job to become a gay travel writer.We definitely will buy your books.Thank you my dear

Guest Jason105
Posted

You are not only a talented writer, you are an astute observer of the human condition.  Your insights and conclusions go far beyond who was or was not good in the sack.  

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading, not just because of the reminders of LOS but because of the incredibly interesting word portraits of the people you spent time with and came to know in a more intimate fashion than the majority of reports/posts that I have read.

Your sincere appreciation of these young men and your honest attempts to get to know them beyond their professional "act" has been revealing and heartwarming.

Yes, I realize that we are discussing transactions that involve money but they also involve human beings with all their complexities and paradoxes.

Thank you for taking the time to provide this reader with  fascinating reports.

All the best.

Posted

Like all above I will miss  my daily dose of your reports.

 

Congratulation on hitting 20000 views mark  and that fast, all hard work you put on those reports paid off. 

Many readers may not realize how time consuming reporting is  but I'm sure all appreciated your efforts

Hope you will change your mind and will report from every trip , not every second one

 

1. vinapu is probably right when saying that me exposing them here may give them a lot of customer traffic,

2.Think of happiness, think of Thailand.

 

don't read my quoted comment as encouragement  or nosiness.

In fact with amount of information about them in your posts I  firmly believe you are correct by hiding their identities. Somebody  motivated will find way to get them.

 

about second part my word is : don't think, just book your ticket and count days to departure.

 

Thank you again , definitely summer 2016 on the forum was numazu's summer ! :thumbsu:   

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