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Bangkok/Pattaya June-July 2016 Trip Report: To Butterfly or not to Butterfly

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Posted

based on your narrative above  I  need to say one thing - DTG is very decent guy.

 

I totally agreed. What would you do if the boy chose a very expensive item in the store when going shopping with you?

Posted

About a boy DTG..... Is he for real? He seems almost too nice.

A cynic in me would say he tried to sell you a sob story.

If your interpretation of him was as genuine as written on your report, he is a rare gem of a money boy.

I just cannot believe a popular DREAM BOY's handsome hunk would call clothing in H&M expensive. Surely he is used to farang or Asian customers buying him clothes or other gifts.

Guest ryanasia
Posted

Gifts are always going to be secondary in lieu of money. This isn't really unusual. What does surprise me is he was assertive enough to come out and say it. The boy probably sees buying clothes at H&M which would be expensive in Thailand as a bit of a waste when he can normally get what he likes at a market for a fraction of the cost. I know the quality is different but he isn't likely to look at it like this. 

Posted

Some boys are really good at picking quality at markets or the wholesale clothing malls in BKK.  Lets face it many times the quality is just as good as the over priced international chains.

 

I have bought supposed knock offs for boys with all the same tags and years later still looking good.

 

Who knows where they actually came from, possibly out the back door late at night.

Posted

I like your way of thinking  and in fact practice what I like. Vacation for me is not a time for penny pinching,  we have whole year for that.

Of course it doesn't make sense to throw money around senselessly  but I believe one on vacation should splurge on things he likes , whatever it is. It's why if I can't  finance it , I stay home until funds are gathered i.e. debts from previous trip are paid.  

 

Life is too short. Those are the four words that constantly ring in my head whenever I go on vacation, especially when I go to Thailand.

 

Granted I count myself insanely lucky to be able to afford these vacations, it is kind of exhausting to penny pinch and micro manage every baht when you are having a good time. I have a set budget every time I go to Thailand, and 10 trips later, have yet to go over my set budget, so I've been successful in setting expectations for myself and be able to spend money within these expectations. Not every trip is a big money trip. That's when free boys on Grindr, or calling up on friends to hangout, come in.

 

I totally agreed. What would you do if the boy chose a very expensive item in the store when going shopping with you?

 

 

Been lucky that the boys I shop with have not asked for a big ticket expensive item. I imagine if one boy did this to me, I have no problems saying no.

 

Gifts are always going to be secondary in lieu of money. This isn't really unusual. What does surprise me is he was assertive enough to come out and say it. The boy probably sees buying clothes at H&M which would be expensive in Thailand as a bit of a waste when he can normally get what he likes at a market for a fraction of the cost. I know the quality is different but he isn't likely to look at it like this. 

 

 

Some boys are really good at picking quality at markets or the wholesale clothing malls in BKK.  Lets face it many times the quality is just as good as the over priced international chains.

 

I have bought supposed knock offs for boys with all the same tags and years later still looking good.

 

Who knows where they actually came from, possibly out the back door late at night.

 

Boys like CB are fairly brand conscious and implicitly believe the brand name ones are superior, in looks, quality and the way they feel. He told me that people might not know the difference between the brand name and generic ones, but to him, he knows, and it gives him more confidence on how he carries himself because he knows he is wearing the real deal.

 

Boys like DTG are more practical, and could care less about brand names, and feel it is a huge waste of money to buy them. He is aware of some quality differences but this is secondary to more pressing issues in his life.

 

Both boys have given me a good time in Thailand, and they are so different in temperament and attitude. Variety is the spice of life.

 

based on your narrative above  I  need to say one thing - DTG is very decent guy. 

 

 

About a boy DTG..... Is he for real? He seems almost too nice.

A cynic in me would say he tried to sell you a sob story.

If your interpretation of him was as genuine as written on your report, he is a rare gem of a money boy.

I just cannot believe a popular DREAM BOY's handsome hunk would call clothing in H&M expensive. Surely he is used to farang or Asian customers buying him clothes or other gifts.

 

A number of posters have told me that they have met DTG just based on my description, which I admit, is pretty detailed. If I were to do this again, I may pull back some of the details more. While I really don't want the boys to be harassed because of my reports, I did find it validating that most of them more or less had a positive experience with him. If I were to guess, since DTG is a latecomer to the money boy scene, and as an adult has had full life experiences outside of Soi Twilight, including getting a college education, he has a more developed moral compass than most.

 

It's very easy and tempting to be cynical about everything that happens in Thailand. I am probably in the more naive side of things. I have no problem with that.

Posted

Ha! Good point, as I would have assumed that a moral compass is not something that is nurtured at Thai colleges, of all places... ;)

Guest ryanasia
Posted

I guess my point is they would always just prefer the money. When I was working myself, it isn't that I didn't appreciate going to a very expensive steak dinner in Europe. It is the fact I looked at how much money it cost and thought why can't I have it? The Thai boys are simpply doing this on a smaller scale. It can be frustrating for a boy to see a customer "waste" so much money on things when his rent will be due in a week. 

 

I loved shopping and was clued in enough that the guy wanted to see me in Gucci clothes or tight jeans or whatever. When you buy it and you are thinking about how good it will look on them it is a gift to yourself primarily. I am not saying that is a bad thing but you admitted the guy wanted the money more than the gifts.

 

Can you imagine taking a homeless guy to the Fat Duck and imagine how extremely foolish and decadent that would seem? 

 

My example there is a bit extreme but I think the general gist of it is valid. Thai boys do not necessarily understand that this doesn't decrease their tip. 

 

Relatively well off people are pretty much famous for doing this kind of thing. The reason is it in the truest sense of the word it isn't a gift. 

 

By all means give whatever you want to but don't think that you somehow know what the best thing for that person is. If I am wrong test the theory and ask personally what they want. The rent money or new shoes? 

 

Again theywon't understand if you spend relatively a fair amount on gifts that in comparison to the tip. 

 

They may also feel a bit bad when you tell them they are dressed so poorly you are doing it outof what amounts to charity. Sometimes the road to hell is paved with good intentions and nowhere in the world does this ring more true than Asia. This is why gold without exception is the preferred gift over here.

Posted

I get a kick out of anyone who is brand conscious. I understand it but in many cases it is foolish.  For instance I have an Apple computer on my desk at home and I have an Ipad. It would be foolish for me not to have an iPhone rather  then a Google phone.

 

Some people may buy an iPhone for Brand and many buy a particular brand for other reasons.

 

I love watches but find the ones I like ridiculously expensive. Over the years I have found the Best dealers in MBK with knock off watches.  I have had most brands and have frequently been attacked in Real Watch stores because of the fake I have on my wrist. The people who sell those many thousands of dollars watches can't tell the difference. I have had Hublot salesmen come out of their stores in Istanbul , Brussels etc because they saw a Hublot on my wrist.  The same can be said about Rolex ,Patek Philippe etc.

 

Many of these watches are 5 years old or more and still work perfectly.  They cost me between $50-100 where as the real thing is many thousands. Even with that last year a Big Watch show in BKK I spent too much money for the real thing. The reason was it sets the time according to satellite information and adjusts for time zone changes as well as being powered by daylight or any light.  They just can't knock that off.

 

Clothes have been policed better the last year but I still see stores with name brands that have the tags, stitching etc to perfection.

 

Yet they are being sold for a fraction of the price. There is no Thai boy that could tell it was not original and who knows it may be.

Posted

What would you do if the boy chose a very expensive item in the store when going shopping with you?i

I personally would not have a problem of telling  him it's just too expensive  but I realize it's it not always that easy and some nice people may have problem of saying no.

 

This is where my second solution comes handy - I almost never go shopping with boy or in fact with anybody anywhere. 

In my 13 trips grand total shopping trips with boy is THREE. Even this come with restrictions

 

1. shopping for clothing at MBK - boy was told up front  that my budget for him is 1000 

2. targeted shopping for   some kind of training belt, boy asked if I can buy one for him, I asked how much it may cost , price was approved but belt not found so money went to  buy some muscle building supplements, wasting money if you ask me but promise is promise

3.on Christmas Eve walking with boy through Patpong noticed that he looks longingly for fake watches so i bought him one for 500 to his  and mine delight, worked only 3 months as I learned later.

 

My advice is , if we want spend money on the boy - increase his tip. If we buy him expensive stuff or treat him to  a expensive dinners as somebody above sensible noticed - if fact we are spending this money on ourselves. I don't mean to offend anybody and my apologies if it sounded harsh but  we want him to look good or have a company for a dinner we fancy.

 

If you buying him something instead of paying for it at cash register slip him cash and make him going there to give him this short bust of self esteem. I do this often at restaurants and like their face expression when waiter brings me  a check  and I push it over to a boy.

 

 

I just cannot believe a popular DREAM BOY's handsome hunk would call clothing in H&M expensive. Surely he is used to farang or Asian customers buying him clothes or other gifts.

if he knows value of things expensive is expensive.

 

Actually are really customers lavishing gifts on a boys? Just asking , but definitely I'm not only asshole in a crowd, who as mentioned above almost never buys them anything with substantial price tag i.e more than 100 baht / one hundred /.

 

But I feed them before and after off  and this is for selfish reason - if boy won't be hungry , lesser chance he will rush things to go home / read: to eat something/, in the morning I just like to have dining company , for some reason not  that crucial in the evening or during day.

Posted

Some boys are really good at picking quality at markets or the wholesale clothing malls in BKK.  Lets face it many times the quality is just as good as the over priced international chains.

 

 

People of limited means often realize that poor people can't afford buying cheap things / cheap in sense of workmanship, not necessarily a price / hence their shopping skills.

 

Another point for giving them money instead dragging them for shopping trip although sometimes it may be justified if we see he wears shabby shoes or clothes and we suspect that if we give him money it may be spent on something else or sent to mama.

Even then I'd ask him  how much new shoes will cost on the market and give him money , perhaps 200-300 more and tell him I like to see new shoes when I come for  a massage or off him on Friday.

 

Of course you are correct about chains - we are paying more for a name not quality which may be much better but not necessarily so. 

Posted

1. I have a set budget every time I go to Thailand, and 10 trips later, have yet to go over my set budget, so I've been successful in setting expectations for myself and be able to spend money within these expectations.

 

2.

 That's when free boys on Grindr, or calling up on friends to hangout, come in.

 

3.Boys like CB are fairly brand conscious and implicitly believe the brand name ones are superior, in looks, quality and the way they feel. 

 

4. While I really don't want the boys to be harassed because of my reports, I did find it validating that most of them more or less had a positive experience with him. If I were to guess, since DTG is a latecomer to the money boy scene, and as an adult has had full life experiences outside of Soi Twilight, including getting a college education, he has a more developed moral compass than most.

 

5.It's very easy and tempting to be cynical about everything that happens in Thailand.

1. Congratulations, I always bust my budget, not by much but I do and never regretted it so far

 

2. Some are saying that no sex is more expensive that free sex so watch out. 

 

3. you are bringing valid  point. Those boys mostly don't have many reason  boost their self esteem so perhaps at times we should splurge on them just to get this one more smile.

 

4. Keep in mind that reporting may increase their traffic too. That's my reasoning why I use names and/or  numbers in my reports. And it seem to be working although at times I get PM asking where I had eyes offing this or that boy, LOL

 

5. I find it's easy to smile at every recollection of vacations there and only cynical thing I can think of is fact that we are going back home leaving boys there to their fate sometimes never to see them again. 14 year later I still miss Pom from Aqua spa and hope he is doing well wherever he is and still looking good

Guest abang1961
Posted

Personally I applauded farangs/clients for your generosity.

It is really generous of you guys of dressing up the boys - if the clothes maketh the man, so be it.

 

Perhaps for my age, I stick to G2000 (a Hong Kong clothes retailer) as I find that H & M and Uniqlo is a tad too fanciful for my old body.  I would splurge more for shoes (they have to be dressy and comfortable) though.  There is another brand, ZARA which sells inexpensive (by Singapore's standard) fashion.  I bought their tote bag several years ago and I am still using it!

 

Unlike most sex workers in Thailand, I surprised my farangs (in Thailand) with paying for dinners at mid-level restaurants.  Most of wait staff were taken aback when I used my credit card to pay for the meal as they assumed that the WHITE guys are the boss.  

 

And yes, DTG seems to be a very sensitive and down-to-earth guy.  He is also very humble. A rare gem in the world of sex workers.

Posted

Buying stuff for guys or treating them to a dinner or trip is even tricky when the guy in question isn't a moneyboy, just happens to be a lot poorer. When visa free travel to Japan was introduced for Thais, I offered a Thai friend to take him along on a trip. He replied that he doesn't want me to spend that amount of money on him because he thinks it's over the top (so far, so good!), but (here it comes!) suggested that if I really wanted to, I should give him the money instead, so that he can spend it on farm supplies for his mom.

 

Ultimately it's the same story. I wanted him to accompany me, so in that sense it was rather a gift for myself than for him, or at least a little bit of both. He couldn't have enjoyed the trip, being under pressure to support his family. It's a lose-lose situation.

Posted

Buying stuff for guys or treating them to a dinner or trip is even tricky when the guy in question isn't a moneyboy, just happens to be a lot poorer. 

I learned that lesson  zillions years ago as a kid . My parents weren't paupers but not affluent either. Quite well off relative from abroad visited us and since she did not bring any gifts with her she lavished on us locally bought goods, God bless her memory all of them were very welcomed and practical.

 

But then I overheard conversation of my parents with my Mom saying 'if she gave me 1/3 of money she spent I'd buy the same and she was saving the rest" . I couldn't comprehend what this was all about as a kid,  but remembered that and still remember that lesson. It's why I always advocate monetary gifts . less glamorous but always useful.

Posted

I have to admit this whole discussion confuses me.

 

When you give a MoneyBoy  money that is payment for a service . Makes no difference how long you have known him or what you have done together. You are paying for a service.

 

A gift is a gift and the giver gets to decide when and what the gift is.  If I give a boy a gift he is free to do with what he likes. A gold chain for sure he will pawn it . An iPhone he will pawn it at some point etc etc .

 

Shoes, Jackets , Shirts are harder to pawn and if the boy picked them out harder to give up once his friends has seen him in those clothes.  

 

I don't think the receiver of the gift has the right to tell you give me money instead.  Too me it reeks of how many stories that the buffalo died.

 

However if you ask a Moneyboy to take a trip with you, you must realize he needs to be paid for his time the same as if you stayed in Thailand.  If you don't make it plain to the boy that you will pay all his expenses plus the same rate you have been paying then naturally he will say he would rather have the money. 

 

His expenses continue whether he is with you in BKK or Tokyo!

Posted

I personally would not have a problem of telling him it's just too expensive but I realize it's it not always that easy and some nice people may have problem of saying no.

I am not nice but I admit I could not say no when a bar boy wanted a pair of jeans -7,000 Bhat at a shop in Siam Paragon.

(sigh) I didn't him to lose face in front of a cute shop assistant.

Posted

I am not nice but I admit I could not say no when a bar boy wanted a pair of jeans -7,000 Bhat at a shop in Siam Paragon.

(sigh) I didn't him to lose face in front of a cute shop assistant.

with such a splurge , if you are not nice who the hell is?

 

Expensive tutorials of lesson "why one should shop at Siam Paragon alone"

 

I can only hope boy was worth of such a expenditure but if it was me I still would say flat 'no", hell with face  and if he was really worth such a gift I'd give him money later on since I believe spending 7000 on a boy is Ok but spending 7000 on a jeans for a boy is way tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much. 

Posted

My advice is , if we want spend money on the boy - increase his tip. If we buy him expensive stuff or treat him to a expensive dinners as somebody above sensible noticed - if fact we are spending this money on ourselves. I don't mean to offend anybody and my apologies if it sounded harsh but we want him to look good or have a company for a dinner we fancy.

.

Totally agreed. We buy him clothes / watch / iPhone because WE want him to have those. I think they know it too so they just let us indulge our little self satisfaction. They consider it as Tam bun -ทำบุญ and not as a gift. We think we are doing him a favour but in fact he is offering an opportunity to make us feel better about ourselves by spending money on him.
Posted

 They consider it as Tam bun -ทำบุญ and not as a gift. We think we are doing him a favour but in fact he is offering an opportunity to make us feel better about ourselves by spending money on him.

and this was definitely a case of boy I bought that cheap fake watch for, my idea , my pleasure and fact that he was happy too it was just by-product

 

Numazu, we are yaking about all those gifts but we did not forget it is your thread , we are just using time waiting for a next installment

Posted

I am not nice but I admit I could not say no when a bar boy wanted a pair of jeans -7,000 Bhat at a shop in Siam Paragon.

(sigh) I didn't him to lose face in front of a cute shop assistant.

7000BHT for a pair of jeans is just crazy. I wonder if the pair of jeans could later be returned to the shop in exchange for money. That would be a very big tip for the boy.

Posted

7000BHT for a pair of jeans is just crazy. I wonder if the pair of jeans could later be returned to the shop in exchange for money. That would be a very big tip for the boy.

Good point, in brand name stores you can often do that. If the boy himself has the receipt, it would be somewhat suspicious to ask for it. Well, at least I would find it suspicious.

Guest ryanasia
Posted

Good point, in brand name stores you can often do that. If the boy himself has the receipt, it would be somewhat suspicious to ask for it. Well, at least I would find it suspicious.

 

Then why bother giving it? Normally the gifts I give don't make me suspicious. This has become a very convoluted and weird discussion.

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