Off-fee structure at BBB in Pattaya

[firecat69]

Do the guys on pattaya know that this forum set the minimum tip at 1000 baht? Many guys are on planet romeo offering themselves for 300 baht. The massage guys on the beach tell me we can finish the massage in my room for 500 baht.

 

I'm interested in what others pay only for information purposes only. Have I been a cheap Charlie? Maybe, show me the guy and I can tell you why I tipped him and why.

I can't believe you are asking this question. You post on other Forums and you have experience in Thailand .  I also believe and forgive me if I am wrong, that you are younger then most Gay Sex Tourist visitors and that you are African American.

 

Both things that some boys may find attractive and I believe I have read posts that you rarely actually have to pay.

 

Lucky you ,and I have no problem with that .  When a boy offers you free sex you would be a fool not to accept it in Thailand or anywhere else.

 

When we (at least me)  talk about minimum tips in this Forum it is meant when the Sex Tourist goes into a Bar or online and offers 300 baht . IMHO that is unacceptable.

 

 

In Low season I am sure some boys have residents they go to when they are hungry or rent is due and offer to have Sex for a lower price.  That is their choice and is probably a good thing. In my dream world I would hope the resident would be more generous but again that is boys choice.

 

Vinapu will try to say I am parsing my words that if it is acceptable in one situation , it is acceptable in the reverse. We will agree to disagree.  Most of my comments about acceptable minimum tips in this thread have been directed at Sex Tourists. Men who like most on this Board who spend thousands of whatever currency to travel to Thailand in order to have Sex with types they could never have in their home country or if they could would be at least 5x as much per encounter.

 

IMHO those tourists should recognize that the only reason they come to Thailand again and again is not for the food or the temples or the religion but for Cheap Sex with boys much younger then themselves.

 

So it should not be hard to pay what 95% of visitors know are the minimum acceptable tips.

 

Yes it irritates me when posters with limited knowledge post ridiculous assertions that boys can easily make 24,000 per month and save 720,000 over 6 years. It irritates me when someone believes the biggest liars in Asia and that would be Mamasans and waiters in GoGo Bars.

 

Those facts and many others are available on this and other Forums for people who want to ask and feel the real answers.

 

It irritates me when members say that that many boys have fancy cars and motorcycles when they don't know what they are talking about.  Those type of members need to visit a boys room and see how he lives in order to make some money and send some home to the family.  They need to understand that when a boy is lucky enough to get a generous Farang that they share that good fortune with their friends who may have not made a single baht in a week.

 

Yes there are boys who waste their good fortune on phones etc but they really are the minority and most of them try to be generous with their friends and especially their families.

 

I read Michaels post with the understanding that he always has been one of the most generous farangs towards the boys from the time he had a house full of boys and I do mean full until the time he became satisfied with his BF. Well sort of. HeHe

 

Michaels most insightful sentence was that his BF finally believed he would not leave him for a Hotter , Younger Boy.

 

This kind of relationship happens but it is rare because for every Michael I can name 10 who swept their boy away and took them all over the world and then sent them home with nothing after they got tired of them.

[TotallyOz]

I read Michaels post with the understanding that he always has been one of the most generous farangs towards the boys from the time he had a house full of boys and I do mean full until the time he became satisfied with his BF. Well sort of. HeHe

 

It wasn't totally full Firecat.  There were only 9 boys living there with me full-time at that point. 2 for each bedroom and one for my bed.  Of course the one that was lucky (unlucky) enough to get my bedroom was usually the favored one and got whatever the fuck he wanted.  However, that is but a distant memory and the pool parties have subsided and the garden I furnished for the house was loved by the next renter.

[witty]

I wouldn't generalize that most tourists go to Thailand for the Cheap Sex. Sex is merely incidental, as in going to the mall to shop, finding something at 70% discount is incidental.

I've come across moneyboys with phones that are many times more expensive than my entry-level smartphone, but I've also met a few who didn't have one with them.

I've also come across moneyboys with their own bikes, and one with his own utility truck. The situation with moneyboys can be very fluid whereby a small percentage of newbies will stay in the industry for extended periods.

[TotallyOz]

I wouldn't generalize that most tourists go to Thailand for the Cheap Sex.

 

I agree. But, the ones that keep coming back for more and more and that are gay, are not here to tour Siam Paragon over and over.   There must be some reason they are here.  Humm.  Let me think.  Yes. Sex is abundant.  And, cheap.

[firecat69]

I am quite sure that most Gay Tourists who return again and again are here for 1 thing and that is Sex.

 

You might try going to the JW Marriott on Sukhumvit one of the best Hotels in Bangkok and sit for a few hours and count the number of stunning young girls heading for the elevators with businessmen. I doubt they are secretaries. And yes the gentlemen may have come on business but they make sure they have some monkey business.

 

Sex Industry is gigantic in Thailand both straight and much less so Gay. Everyone wants to have story about moneyboy having a truck. First it is rare and 2nd in most cases the truck belongs to a benefactor . There are cases where a benefactor buys a truck so boy can be in Limo Business.  Since the benefactor does not want to responsible for accidents, deaths etc, the truck is in the boys  name. Again this is rare.

 

Posters with little knowledge keep talking about motorcycles and once again 90 % of the boys who are lucky enough to have 2 wheel transportation have motorbikes which of course are much cheaper then motorcycles.

 

 

I'm trying to figure out why in the last 500 boys I have met exactly 3 had their own motorbike.  The rest took motor taxis bikes to meet me or in many cases took 5 baht  buses or the Skytrain.

 

I continue to be amazed at how many people with very limited knowledge of the boys can be such experts. They almost always nothing about what they are talking about!

[bucknaway]

I come to thailand for the low priced hotels, cheap taxis, fun gay environments, vibrant nightlife and the availability of sex from Thai and travelers alike. It's not often that I pay for sex in thailand but I enjoy the sex trade environment it offers.

 

I'm not as young as I use to be 20 years ago but the gym has helped with my ability to be given a second look by guys looking for fun.

[Londoner]

I asked my partner of twelve years- an ex-money boy in Pattaya- about this  very issue three weeks ago when I was in Thailand.

Specifically, I asked how much he would pay a  a guy from Planet Romeo or Hornet if he were to arrange a meeting at our hotel.

His answer was definitive; 1000 bht.

I taxed him on this; he's thirty-three and very attractive. Surely, I said, someone who looks like you wouldn't have to pay the same as an ageing falang? surely the guys on Hornet et al would be happy to accept a lower amount from you?

His answer was much the same as Firecat's; the guys are making money to pay rent ,pay for food and often to send money home.

 

"Fun" doesn't pay the rent..

 

I've learnt a lot about his two years in Pattaya. He is now doing well financially in the north of the country but being the guy that I love, he has an understanding of the situation our Pattaya friends are in. He finds the concept of under-paying distasteful and alien to his religious beliefs.....however cute we think we are. Or in my case, not at all.

 

At the same time, he speaks with some affection of those years. In particular, he's grateful for the comradeship; the way the bar-boys looked after each other. Those who'd been successful one night would buy dinner for his friends, they'd borrow money in extremis- in general terms  they'd look after each other. Particularly newbies.

 

He would appreciate Firecat's comments. He speaks from experience. And my own two decades of visiting support him.

[biguyby]

There are always going to be two week millionaires, there are always going to be budget travellers and unfortunately there will always be cheap Charlie's coming to Thailand for holidays or relocating ex-pats.

 

Everyone has a right to their own way of managing their finances.

 

Being retired I am a on a fixed income so I am definitely a in the budget traveller category I can budget for 3 x one month holidays a year quite comfortably.With maybe a sexual encounter every 4 or 5 days.

 

No disrespect to Firecat and Vinapu but if I was active as they are with the boys and as generous with tipping as they are I would be having perhaps just one holiday a year.

 

It may sound selfish but I feel that now in my "twilight years" I feel it's necessary to make sure that my entertainment comes before anything else.

 

I would never condone anyone exploiting the the boys by trying to take advantage of the situation by offering a lower tip just because the boys are desperate perhaps in low season. That would be despicable.

 

But I do feel that paying the going rate for instance 1000 baht for a short time off or 700 baht for a HJ from a massage boy is quite acceptable.

[bucknaway]

The guys need us all. They need the guys that throw large sums of cash at them and they need the budget spenders. Thailand welcomes us all. We all seem to have a different experience with the guys. We read about a trip adventure and when it comes to the tip amount, we either gasp or scowl at the amount given.

 

If you give more, good for you. If you give less, good for you. If you don't have to give at all, good for you.

 

We all can't walk in each others shoes bit I sure wish I had the experiences that some of you have had..... but I'm too cheap to lay the groundwork

[Gaybutton]

But I do feel that paying the going rate for instance 1000 baht for a short time off or 700 baht for a HJ from a massage boy is quite acceptable.

 

I agree with that.  The people I have a problem with are the ones who pay a lot of money for the airfare, stay in good hotels, eat in good restaurants, drink like there's no tomorrow, and then try to save money by offering cheap tips to the boys - and the boys are the reason these people come here in the first place. 

[numazu]

I agree with that. The people I have a problem with are the ones who pay a lot of money for the airfare, stay in good hotels, eat in good restaurants, drink like there's no tomorrow, and then try to save money by offering cheap tips to the boys - and the boys are the reason these people come here in the first place.

This is so true. Many people focus on the tangible stuff they can pay for, but forget that experiences are worth the price as well.

[Guest abang1961]

The BIG spenders mentioned  by Gaybutton are so selfish and heartless.

The livelihood of the boys depends on them but yet, they lavish on themselves only without any hesitation.

Spare the boys a thought - they need to survive, they need to send money home and their shelf-life is short.

 

To those who can afford, be generous and gentle with the boys.  

After all, the availability and presence made our lives more entertaining/bearable/interesting/..(any suitable adjectives)

[Gaybutton]

so selfish and heartless.

 

Talk to the boys themselves.  The most common complaint I hear from them is farang who only care about their own sexual gratification and, as far as the boys can tell, nothing else.  The boys feel like farang don't give the first shit about them and in far too many cases they're right.  The way they see it, many farang are only here to have themselves a nice, satisfying cum with boys they find attractive, and at the lowest possible price.  Again, in far too many cases they're right.

 

Some try to justify it by saying the boys are desperate for money and will accept 300 or 400 baht.  If anyone reading this is one of those, are you proud of yourself?  Does it make you feel good to do that?

 

Too many farang try to justify giving the boys paltry amounts because, as they see it, they're only prostitutes - just as if being a prostitute means they don't deserve to be well treated - and well paid - by their customers - unworthy of being treated decently as humans.  Maybe farang see them as prostitutes, with all the negative connotations, but the boys don't see themselves that way. Neither do I.  They're not here to be used and abused, but that's just what too many farang do.

 

Personally, I have a hell of a lot more respect for those "only prostitutes" than I have for the farang customers who treat them that way.  I have no respect for those kinds of farang at all.

 

If giving these boys decent money for what they're doing for you is really going to cause you major financial difficulties and you need to save money, try eating less expensive dinners - without the goddam wine.  Try having fewer drinks.  Save money that way.  But trying to save money by lowballing the boys?  I see no justification for that no matter what the excuse for it might be.

[bucknaway]

I find the guys are adapt at saying the things they need to say to bring about the results they hope for

[bucknaway]

I often find that the guys I meet in thailand know their way around the traveling foreigner. From their limitations on speaking a second and or third language fluently, we forget they are doing something many of us are unable to do, and take their basic language skills as a reflection on their knowledge of life. Trust me, they didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

[1moRussian]

It irritates me when members say that that many boys have...

.

And this is the problem with these posts, Firecat - something irritates you and you starts to lecture quite grown up people in direct (that's substitute for "rude") manner... Some believe that a 20 yo could earn 24k and save a half, other believe you can lecture a 40-60+ yo stingy guy and he becames a generous one.

 

This is a market - if there is nobody around here, 300 baht could buy a boy food and bed. If there is Firecat around the corner, who pays 1000, the boy will choose 1000 pretty quick.

 

My last off from BBB (22 yo, Cambodian, good lean body, common face, 'straight', basic English - so, an average BT guy; and it was lunch + 3000 overnight) proudly said me he made 20k+ for the last month in BBB - his first month in BBB. And it was late June, quite low season. A month before he made only 3k+ in a massage shop (looks like a non-HE shop). So he moved from an unprofitable place to the more profitable place, they can understand a difference between a 300 baht farang and a 1000 baht farang by themselves. As another member wrote "btw, do the boys know, you set a minimum at 1000?".

 

So, can a boy earn 24k per month - sure. Can he save a half - I am not sure.

(after he got 3000 from me, I asked him what were his plans - the answer was "Oishi bar, gym and sleep". And Oishi costs 650 baht, if I am correct. And this guy didn't have a phone at all, but he prefers to spend money for Oishi, but not to buy a cheap 1600 baht phone to be in touch with customers. His money - his right to spend them as he wants. Of course, he couldn't save a half, I think, but some can, maybe not in 20 yo, but later)

[firecat69]

Just another person who is wrong. In many cases they did just fall off the Turnip Truck. They arrive because they are 18 (we hope) and poor, in many cases dirt poor. In many cases only a mother at home and they hear from friend that they can make money selling their bodies.  Frequently they hear that from their friends in January or Feb. and by the time they arrive it is April and things have slowed down.

 

Now they have 1 change of clothes (maybe ) and their bus ticket and they sleep on the floor of their friend until they can make some money. And thus their life begins as a Moneyboy selling himself for sexual gratification of foreigners.

 

Now I am certainly not going to say that there are not boys who have become good at playing the game . There are those who over time may have had more then 1 BF sending them money.

 

And for 1moRussian just another poster with limited experience who wants to take 1 boy and extrapolate that experience to the boys in general.

 

Can a boy earn 24,000 a month in 1 month of course he can in January. He will not earn anywhere near that over 12 months unless he has a rich BF.  The number of customers in Pattaya that will pay a boy 3000 ++ is miniscule. And the boy that earns that represents a tiny % of the boys in the trade . If the only time you hire is the popular Boy at BBB or the Muscle Bound Star at Tawan then you have no idea about the lives of the overwhelming majority of boys. 

 

They never make 3000 in their entire lives for 1 night and are ecstatic if they can make that in a week.  Then there are all the experts about phones .  Many times that iPhone and Samsung are fakes and cost a small % of the real thing. 

 

Most farangs could never tell the difference unless they picked it up and tried to use it. 

 

And if you are so inexperienced as to think the boys don't know what the minimum should be then go to Romeo , Hornet or even most GoGo Bars in Pattaya and sit down and after a brief conversation ask how much,and see how many reply 1000 in Pattaya.

Of course they know what Sex Tourists should pay for them 

 

The customer that only goes to DreamBoys, BBB, Tawan have no idea about the lives of the vast majority of boys. On Romeo alone there are more then 1000 boys between 18-24 in Pattaya. How many customers do you think there are. Many more on Jack"d Grindr etc etc ..  I don't much care if you  think I am being rude.  My words are not addressed to you at least about money paid to boys but they are because you really have no idea about 90% of the money boys lives .

 

And for everyone of you there are 5 who agree with me .  The only ones offended are members who purport to know about the lives of  the boys and don't have a clue or maybe the Cheap Charlies which I don't really think exist here.

[1moRussian]

You certainly have being rude most of the times, Firecat - because of it nobody cares what are you saying and when you are saying quite sensible things as well after this part of little trolling, please, reveal me - when a poster becames "an experienced one"? Only after 50+ trips to Thailand, as you said it before about your trips? Or after 49 trips? Where is this experienced expert border?

[Gaybutton]

because of it nobody cares what are you saying

 

I care.  Rude or not, I also agree with firecat69.  So, at least one member of this board does care what he is saying.  I doubt I'm alone in that.  Like it or not, firecat69 knows what he is talking about.  And he is right. 

 

Some around here would do well to pay attention to what he is saying and following his advice.  It will make for a much better holiday and the boys will be sorry to see you go instead of feeling 'Good.  Another cheap prick is gone.'

[bucknaway]

Oh, sorrry.... I avoid the young ones. I prefer late 20's to late 40's

 

The only thing young ones can do for me is bring me a note from an older guy.

[1moRussian]

I care. rude or not, I also agree with firecat69. So, at least one member of this board does care. I doubt that I'm alone in that.

Gaybutton, I know you are agree with some of Firecat' statements - actually, I am agree with some too. But I just quoted Firecat's favorite "who cares what you think, if you dare to have your own opinion"

[firecat69]

You certainly have being rude most of the times, Firecat - because of it nobody cares what are you saying and when you are saying quite sensible things as well after this part of little trolling, please, reveal me - when a poster becames "an experienced one"? Only after 50+ trips to Thailand, as you said it before about your trips? Or after 49 trips? Where is this experienced expert border?

Easy you become experienced when you realize that 95 % of the boys in Thailand never make 3000 baht for a night. You become experienced when you don't make statements that many boy have fancy cars and motorcycles. You become experienced when you realize just because a boy has what looks like an iPhone, it may not be. You become experienced when you don't say that that a boy can work 6 years and save 720,000 baht. You become experienced when you don't believe a then Mamasan when he tells you the off fee is 1000. You become experienced when you realize that most boys know what the acceptable rate is their location.

 

Now not all of those refer to you but they do refer to statements made by posters here in this thread. All of those sentiments are wrong and if you don't have enough experience to know that then the poster should be asking questions instead of making statements.

[bucknaway]

Come on guys, we are all speaking from experience. We all have different experiences, often from the same guys. If any of us think our words should be chiseled into stone tablets, we are misguided and living in a fantasy land.

[1moRussian]

So, you just took your own statements and marked them as "correct" - quite simple way to have a discussion, isn't it?

Or maybe you become experienced when you suggest to a boy to start cheating in the app, because all other cheat (that was your own words)? [really?! All?! Cheating?!!]

Or maybe you become experienced when you say "you [Firecat] have idea about 90% of the money boys lives ." [really?! You have spoken with 90%?!]

Or maybe when you start to speak ภาษา ไทย นิด หน่อย? [never saw a Thai word in your posts]

 

Anyway, that's not very fruitful discussion - you have your own opinion, I have my own, and they sometimes the same (no good to pay 300 baht), sometimes they are different...

[firecat69]

Since most of the last 4 pages of this thread had to do with paying boys a fair amount and 300 could rarely be a fair amount if proposed by the farang, I am happy that you and most others agree with me at least on that point .  I readily admit i have never paid 3000 to a Boy in Thailand although it might have averaged out to that once or twice on a long time off with a Big Bonus on the last day.