Off-fee structure at BBB in Pattaya

[vinapu]

 

I am happy for them and would love to hear from Vinapu what % of his offs drove their car to or from his Hotel or even their expensive motorcycles not motorbikes.  My guess is , it is EXTREMELY small but maybe not.

I'm not aware about any boys I ever offer owning a car although I know one who owned  farm , no idea how big but still a farm.

 

Few owned expensive motocycles but still very few.

 

Since almost always I walk my boys down to a street I can say with certainty - way too many of them are jumping into taxi instead of using cheaper mode. I'd like to see them being more prudent. For the record, I rarely give them taxi money and if , only because I want , not because they ask. Recall only one case when boy given 100 for taxi said that he still will take  a bus. 

[vinapu]

 

1.As usual you have no replies to pointed questions put to you. How many of your Tawan Boys drove to your Hotel in their own fancy car or motorcycles. 

 

2. You are great at taking both sides of an argument even when they go against your own actions!

 

3.Someone who spends thousands on flights, Hotels and meals has no business offering 300 baht to the boys.  Period !

1. I need to go to work man, I answer when I have time and did already above. I always walk with the Tawan boys not giving them a chance to drive whatever they have but none of boys I offer I'm aware about having a car.

 

Not to mention I try to pick up questions to answer wisely. foam is good for parched lips

 

2. We all are making wrong moves against our better judgement hence I tip 3000 when I should 2000 and so on

 

3. this is what you think but what about boys and them cheap charlies?

 

 

I think what it all boils down to is being reasonable with these boys.  While I would rather see the boys overpaid than underpaid, in my opinion 1000 to 1500 baht for short time is reasonable.  300 to 400 baht is unreasonable.  On the other hand, I believe giving the boys 3000 baht or more for short time is also unreasonable, assuming you're with the boy as a customer.

I agree with you wholeheartedly and practice what I preach.

Still I believe it may be circumstances that such unreasonable and despicable tip may be acceptable  and life line for a boy in dire need. 

 

After all Saranrom boys are still asking for 500, asking , not being offered , and only recently they were reports some are quoting 600.

 

While 3000 short time may be unnecessarily lavish I can envision situation when happy camper will throw that much and would moire if only boy asked. There are some offs we remember years after when boys were worth of every penny and perhaps we even thing we should pay them more then.

[orson]

Those that are lucky enough to have cars and expensive bikes are indeed few. Maybe around 2-5% of the guys. In the case of tawan, i am actually not sure how some of the guys live by the 100baht they receive every night from the bar. But i guess they have other sources of income.

[abidismaili]

I run into boys where travel to meet me can easily be 2 hours and at some point that does effect the price.

 

 

But when I use these apps I look for boys nearby. They show default first. You even use the apps to see if maybe 30 kilometers from you a nice boy is available? I quit looking after a few kilometers because i think 'pointless'. 

[Gaybutton]

After all Saranrom boys are still asking for 500, asking , not being offered , and only recently they were reports some are quoting 600.

 

 

I have no problem with that.  It's one thing if it's the boy asking for a certain amount and it's less than I usually give.  If that's what he asks for, that's what he'll get.  It's the ones asking for overly large amounts that won't get it from me. 

 

When it's my own decision, I'll be giving him a lot more than 300 or 400 baht, even if I didn't like him, he didn't like me, or he was a dud.  In cases like that, which thankfully so far has hardly ever happened to me, I'll give him my usual amount and just won't have him back again.

[firecat69]

But when I use these apps I look for boys nearby. They show default first. You even use the apps to see if maybe 30 kilometers from you a nice boy is available? I quit looking after a few kilometers because i think 'pointless'. 

Most of what you say is true but there are exceptions. If Boy lives close to Skytrain then distances become much shorter especially since I am always staying close to Skytrain.

 

Since they keep extending the Skytrain more and more areas are starting to fall into 45 minutes or less. Of course that assumes boy is familiar with Skytrain.  I am sometimes amazed by boys that would rather spend 200 baht in a taxi then take the Skytrain and thus the ask for taxi money. HeHe

[firecat69]

Some of you may think this thread got a little Heated and maybe it did but maybe some people got enlightened.

 

I think many of us forget an overwhelming % of members never or very rarely post. Then there are many who never register as a member and come here looking for information.

 

There is a responsibility that when someone says many boys have fancy cars , trucks and motorcycles , or that an attractive boy can save 720,000 baht in a few years and retire or that off fees are a 1000 baht or that it is acceptable for a tourist to offer boys 300 baht for sex that they get called out.

 

It is important that the correct information is given to the first time visitor. I also think it is important to show that most of us have great respect for the boys and appreciate the job they do . After all that is the reason we visit.

 

Vinapu makes a good point on Saranom Boys asking for 500 and I have no problem with that. It is a different animal. A very short meeting in a short time room and the boys set the price and really the customer comes to the boy. I continue however to believe that anyone who spends thousands of $ to visit Thailand has no business offering the boys $8 for sex in his room which the boy must travel to.

 

That will be my final word on the subject. Thank God.

[a447a]

Re: boys and their motorcycles /motorbikes/ cars

 

Firecat, I also have quite a lot of experience with moneyboys in Thailand. I'm struggling to think of guys I've offed over the years who DIDN'T own a motorbike.

 

And the guys I know at All of Me all own motorbikes, as do the guys at Goodboys - they park them all in a row next to the bar. My regular from Golden Cock has just bought a new Honda, and many other guys I've offed from Natureboy also own motorbikes.

 

My ex-regular from Natureboy in Bangkok owns a car, as does my regular guy in Pattaya, They are the only boys I know who own cars.

 

As other posters have pointed out, we all have different experiences.

[firecat69]

It's amazing how many boys in Sunee own and I use the term loosely motorbikes, not motorcycles and not cars , trucks etc.

 

And I use own loosely because many of them own it for as long as they make the payments and most lose the bikes when they don't make the payment and then if they are lucky they find a generous farang that give s them enough money to get it back until they lose it again. I speak from experience since I have been that generous farang more then once.

 

It is like a culture in Sunee and has been for 15 years that I have gone there.  I would be willing to bet that the % of ownership in the massage parlors is minimal and much less in BT.

 

I stand by my my previous comment that in the last 5 years and about a total of 400 + nights staying at View Talay 6 and seeing hundreds of boys , exactly 3 came on their own motorbikes.  Not sure what that says. But you are right about Sunee boys I no longer go there because franky it sucks IMHO and dies a little more every year .

 

Even with that said when Sunee thrived there were probably 150 or more boys working in Go Go Bars and I doubt you ever would have been able to count more then 40 bikes and very few of them anywhere close to paid for.

 

But you make a good point at least for Sunee boys. 

 

One other thought I forgot lots have mentioned boys with iPhones and I have countered with many of them are fakes.  Sometimes we forget Thailand has joined the Big Commerce world and the telephone companies in Thailand are happy to sell them iPhones on time payments just as most of the Wesern World has been doing for years.

 

So having an iPhone does not mean as much as it once did in Thailand.

[TotallyOz]

Over the year I have purchased over 40 motorbikes for different boys.  Yes, insane I know. But, it is the truth.  Of all of these bikes only 3 of them kept them for long term as when the rent was due or money was needed, first came the gold and then came the motorbikes. 

 

I have not met that many boys that have their own motorbike in Pattaya or Bangkok.  I know some that do and some that have leased bikes.  Often the lease was given to them or they used all the money they made to put the down payment down and then all too often, they loose the bike because they can't keep up payments during low season.

 

I use to give phones or bikes for Birthdays but have since stopped doing these things as I realized that they didn't stay where I wished them to stay and that was as a means of transportation when things got rough.

 

I know of only a handful of boys who have cars and they are all older cars that is also a family car.

 

We like to think the boys do well. But, in reality, they survive and only thrive when they make the right choices day in and day out.  That is hard to do when they live the Thai way of "enjoy today and worry about tomorrow later." 

 

My first long term boy in Thailand (Firecat knows) was a great guy and for the 2 years he was with me he supported his brother and his 2 friends. They worried for little when he had my cash flowing.  When it stopped, they had to work harder and life changed.  One of them did well and helped the ex for many years.  That is the way things go.

 

It is not a great life unless they meet that someone special who really does want to change their lives for the better.  Again, just my opinion and based on over 1,000 boys I have offed over the years.

[ct2005]

One would have thought that with the sponsor from generous farangs like Michael & Firecat, the boys would be able to step out of their debts & starts saving up for the future. It seems that basic expenditure e.g. paying for rent is enough to drag them back into financial problems again.

[a447a]

Michael, you say you bought over 40 motorbikes over the years but stopped once you realised they were selling them off to raise money.

 

 

Did it really only sink in what they were doing after buying so many motorbikes??

[vinapu]

I am sometimes amazed by boys that would rather spend 200 baht in a taxi then take the Skytrain and thus the ask for taxi money. HeHe

and this brings entirely new subject. Most of us probably don't realize how many boys are intimidated by the big city and don't know their way around.

Once Arena boy / around the corner from Chong Nonsi BTS /  told me he never took a BTS because he doesn't know how to go about it.  

[TotallyOz]

Michael, you say you bought over 40 motorbikes over the years but stopped once you realised they were selling them off to raise money.

 

 

Did it really only sink in what they were doing after buying so many motorbikes??

 

No, I knew. But, the sex was just too delicious!

 

I am from NYC and an overnight there is 2,000 USD.  So for me, I still thought I was getting a great deal.

 

Like I said, I have learned a lot over the years.  But, initially, I had high hopes.

[firecat69]

Unlike Michael I only bought 2 used bikes and they are both for boys I was no longer having Sex with. Go Figure  The first one lasted quite awhile until he had an accident and in his mind it was better to get a new bike then fix the old one. So he talked his friend into giving him the ownership slip which was the only reason he still had the bike ( he was supposed to never give it to him) and got himself a brand new one with all the whistles . 5 months later he lost the bike and was back walking.

 

The other boy hated the scene and took the bike back home to Issan where I am quite sure he still resides today.

 

Some farangs think these boys are wise to the world and yes there are some who have been in the trade for awhile that know all the ways to fleece the Dumb Farang.

 

But most are uneducated boys from poor circumstances that have much less knowledge of the world then their Western counterparts. As in everything there are exceptions.

[firecat69]

and this brings entirely new subject. Most of us probably don't realize how many boys are intimidated by the big city and don't know their way around.

Once Arena boy / around the corner from Chong Nonsi BTS /  told me he never took a BTS because he doesn't know how to go about it.  

Amazing how prevalent that is. I always tell the boy to take Skytrain and most come by taxi and unless I am generous enough to pay for their taxi , the money earned is greatly reduced.

[Guest abang1961]

If I am travelling in Thailand on my own, I would rather take the public transport - MRT, skytrain and even local buses.  That to me is a slice of the average Thai daily life.  Of course, taking a taxi means a door-to-door delivery but since I am not rushing for time, why do I need them?

 

Some of my favourite exercise regime in my June trip included brisk walking in Lumpini Park in the morning, a slow walk to Jomtien Beach in the afternoon and walking within the walls in Chiangmai.  I can walk for hours and thanks to the omni-present 7-11 and Family Mart, I was able to replenish/quench my thrist and stay hydrated.  

 

Back to this topic.

The Christians were told to offer tithe.  So when we are in Thailand, that is known as off-fee.  Any other tipping is between the client and the wonderful boy themselves.  

 

 

Tongue in cheek:

I wonder why no one buys me a motorcycle now? I need to brush up on my marketing/targeting skills.

[firecat69]

Comparing donating to the support of a religion to paying an off fee to a Bar that makes their money by selling boys for sex just does not seem to be the same to me.

[Alexx]

One would have thought that with the sponsor from generous farangs like Michael & Firecat, the boys would be able to step out of their debts & starts saving up for the future. It seems that basic expenditure e.g. paying for rent is enough to drag them back into financial problems again.

Buying someone a fish vs. teaching someone to fish, classic. Sponsoring someone who ultimately doesn't have the drive or the skills to improve their life ultimately only provides temporary relief. That's not really something the sponsor can hope to control, but I think you do get better at figuring out early on if your sponsorship will fall on fertile ground.

[firecat69]

Well I don't consider either of the 2 used motorbikes that I bought as a failure .  One boy kept it for 2 years and I'm sure his life was a little better for those 2 years with no payments and if I had still been in his life he would have had to settle for repairs . But am I sure a 22 year old would have handled any better in the USA? I am not.

 

The 2nd boy probably still has the motorbike as he left immediately to be with his mother and resume life in Issan although it has been a little while since we had contact with each other.

 

I don't regret either one just like I don't regret a number of big bonuses I gave to boys on their way back to Issan after 2 years to be reunited with families. In fact in all those cases my expenditures had nothing to do with the boys giving me pleasure and thus probably gave me the most pleasure.

 

IMHO it does not balance the scales for all the physical pleasure provided to me by boys who are like ships passing in the night.

[abidismaili]

What are most money boys plans for the future? Go back to their village and start farming? Long term visitors must have some ideas. What are the guys currently doing who 15 year ago were a money boy? They now approach age 40. What can we in general say about how they earn an income now? 

[paulsf]

Just as you said, most go home. Farms and rice fields.

[Guest abang1961]

Firecat,

What you did was super-admirable.

You gave without reservations.

You did it your way..

Regrets ..too few to mention

Frank Sintara's My Way lingering in the background.

 

Yes when I was in my college days and thereafter began working, I spend every penny.

At that time, it was not a common practice to invest in the stock market but a very common practice to own a lot of clothes/shoes/bags.  It helped when I received a scholarship and did some part-time modelling assignment then. 

Really it was youth used and wasted (a line fro I Dream a Dream from Les Miserables).

 

 

[TotallyOz]

Really it was youth used and wasted (a line fro I Dream a Dream from Les Miserables).

 

 

Isn't that really what most of us do with our youth?  I know I did.  I don't begrudge the Thai boys for living life to the fullest in their youth.  I know before I was 28 I made some really stupid decisions in my life. I even bought a 1965 Mustang Convertible that cost me about my entire salary for a year.  (totally worth it)

 

I think we often forget how much these boys are still growing and learning and although we (or at least I) have learned many lessons over the years and try to teach those that are younger, it all too often falls on deaf ears.

[vinapu]

 

 

I am from NYC and an overnight there is 2,000 USD.  So for me, I still thought I was getting a great deal.

 

 

Certainly you were ! 2000 USD = 75000 baht, much more than I spent on all offs on my last trip, 11 overnights out of that 4 including second helper , also overnighter. I never felt bad about this and now I feel even better.