A Spiritual Trip Report

[jfarmer017]

Arrived back in my home town of Florida, USA after a short (17 days) jaunt to Thailand. I have never been one for "trip reports." I have no problem with those who post them, and I can appreciate the vicarious and voyeuristic appeal to those on "the out," so to speak. So while I do not attend to give a play-by-play "report" of my last visit, I am inspired to share (for the first time with anyone other than my closest friend) a broader report of my experience and relationship to Thailand generally.

 

For starters, a little background. I am a 34-year-old American born and raised in an upper middle class home in the city of Tampa, Florida. I came out of the closet around age 14-15 during the summer between my freshman and sophomore years in high school. Had no problems from the family (my mother and father had frequented local gay bars with friends and extended family since before I was born. I attended a selective school and had no problems with being an out gay student. In short, my coming out was rather painless and carefree. I dated my high school sweetheart (an adopted Vietnamese) for four years, from age 18-22; we attended the same undergraduate and lived together the entire time. Unfortunately, our post-graduate plans drew us in two significantly different directions, and we had an amicable (if painful) breakup. Shortly thereafter, I began a serious relationship with another guy (mix Chinese and Thai), and we were together for about three years. I was perfectly convinced that I had found the love of my live and was quite content to spend the rest of my life with him. So when the relationship crumbled and burnt, I was particularly wounded. After a rash suicide attempt with an automobile, I embarked on a journey of self-discovery and came away with a few insights: (a) I am a rice queen; (b) I am an ephebophile; © I cannot maintain a normal relationship (i.e. marriage or monogamous commitment to a single partner

 

As for (a), at the time I was really convinced that it was simply a coincidence that both of my serious relationships were with men of East Asian extraction. I fancied myself a cosmopolitan bohemian prone to attraction to men of any number of ethnic or demographic profiles. Turned out I was attracted to slim, relatively hairless young men. Of which Southeast and East Asian men tend to predominate. 

 

Which leads me to my second insight- ephebophilia. This word, unlike its dreaded cousin pedophilia, has not really penetrated into popular use. Perhaps because the condition it describes is vague and ambiguous and relatively new, in human historical terms. The split between childhood and adulthood has long been a concern of the human condition, but it is only in recent times that we acknowledge a middle period described vaguely as "adolescence." Pedophilia is a specific condition that involves sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children, but given the degree to which people confuse legal consent with actual intellectual/emotional maturity, it is not uncommon to refer to someone as a pedophile, even though their sexual attraction was directed towards someone of sexual maturity (that's to say, post-pubescent), but beneath the outside legal age of consent. Sexual contact between an adult and a 5-year-old will typically garner more outrage than sexual conduct between an adult and 15-year-old, and properly so. 

 

So, having diagnosed myself with a paraphilia not really seriously discussed since the time of classical Athens, I come across a relatively new porn site called "privateboymovie." In particular, a video featuring "San." A preview is readily accessible to anyone who chooses to google my two quotes. Inspired, I booked a flight to Bangkok later that year (2007) and have been a regular, frequent visitor/pseudo-ex pat ever since.

 

So while spending the last almost 10 years living out the fantasy of that site producer, why am I really no happier or more content than I was a decade earlier?

[ct2005]

... 

So while spending the last almost 10 years living out the fantasy of that site producer, why am I really no happier or more content than I was a decade earlier?

I would guess that those are just short-lived encounters. It is long term relationship that you yearn for.

[steveboy]

From what you wrote about yourself you may be a perfectly normal person.

 

To be attracted to Asian males is not uncommon for us gays. My theory is that in the continuum between gay and straight we are at some point where we feel attraction to some feminine traits in males, like the slim hairless smooth bodies you describe.  I personally don't care for big muscles, facial hair, tough attitude or any other "masculine" traits in a man I am attracted to.

 

"Ephebophilia" sounds like an effort to give name to things, maybe to define problems that don't exist. Although there are gays who are attracted to older men (something I don't understand but don't need to understand), I believe that it is more common that we like teenagers. Both gay and straight we are sexually attracted to teenagers maybe because nature has selected this time in life as the prime time for reproduction, who knows! I don't see in this anything to worry about. Now approaching middle age, I have the experience that the preferred age also increases with the years, so that when you are twice your age now you may have the strongest attraction to men in their 20s. 

 

About not being happier or more content after 10 years of living out your fantasies,  who says that you should be? If lack of desired sex can cause unhappiness, the happiness from sex is short lived.  It's like the happiness from one cigarette, or the one from one drink.  Some say sex can be an addiction.  If so, it is one of the best because it is self-limiting.  Maybe you need other sources of happiness...

[faranglaw]

 

 

So while spending the last almost 10 years living out the fantasy of that site producer, why am I really no happier or more content than I was a decade earlier?

 

Maybe because you never got over the collapse of your relationship. You sound more like the marrying kind to me. It might be worth spending some money on yourself and finding a good gay male counselor for some longish term therapy to help sort out what you really want and need.

 

Good luck to you however you decide to manage it.

 

Also, that privateboy guy is the one with spots on his dick, right? Cute boys but I don't like the way he seems to use them and throw them away. I don't get a good feeling watching his porn, to be honest. Some porn seems respectful with the boys enjoying the experience. His does not, IMHO.

[ggobkk]

Private schools, classical languages, semi-cooler than saying one likes adolescents and gets thrill by it also being dangerous.

[steveboy]

If you like to consult any kind of therapist,  and you mention to him that you have "ephebophilia",  you will see that his eyes light up immediately. 

 

What a gold mine can be a patient with ephebophilia!

This can deserve a treatment of five years at least.

 

And what an opportunity to do research and dig into the subject.

It's hard to imagine a subject that can turn on a therapist more than sex with teenagers.

 

If you personally don't understand why you are attracted to teenagers,

you can bet that a therapist does not know this either.

Like therapists don't know why we are gay,

yet they have devised "reeducation" therapies.

 

You may have a problem only if you think that your attraction is something sick.

Otherwise, if you can handle it in smart and discrete ways, you can live with it perfectly well.

 

I have an attraction to chocolate ice cream that could be a source of concern. 

Why I crave it so much instead of craving vegetables? 

Should I consult a doctor to see if there is a name for my pathology?

No.  Instead when I pig out on it I look for ways to make up for that.

[Guest Hutchison]

Ephebeophilia is the primary or exclusive interest in adolescents, aged 15 - 19.

 

This sort of sexual activity (if underage)  is quite unethical, illegal and dangerous in Thailand and western countries ( and most of the world).

[abidismaili]

Ephebeophilia is the primary or exclusive interest in adolescents, aged 15 - 19.

 

This sort of sexual activity (if underage)  is quite unethical, illegal and dangerous in Thailand and western countries ( and most of the world).

 

Why is something illegal which 99% of the population likes? Almost all hetero men would love to fuck 16-19 year old girls. Maybe even early matured 15 year olds. Any hetero man given the option between a woman of 18 and 40 will choose the 18 year old for sex (with very rare exceptions). I say "for sex", not for living together and a relationship. Then people tend to like their own age group more.

 

Same for the gay world that I know. Most are into 16-25. Young. It is normal. Evolution has wired us to like young and not like 40, 50, 60.

 

Most jurisdictions - unlike what you say - do recognize this fact and make it legal after 16. So there is no problem from a legal viewpoint.

 

The legal issue that exists, is this: while it is totally normal for a 50 year old to would love to fuck a 17 year old, it is not normal that 17 year old feels attracted to that 50 year old. So the 50 year old has to pay for the services. And that is only legal from age 18 and up.  Which is I think not a bad idea. Besides we like Asians, and they tend to look younger, so if you are into 16-25 year old bodies, then in Thailand all your dreams can come true without breaking the law, because many 18+ look like 16 or 17.

 

I think the OP is right in his self diagnosis: he likes Asians because he is an ephebophile. And there is nothing morally wrong with that. In fact the majority of adults are wired to like 16+ bodies.

 

What I do not understand it why it took him to realize his sexual preference only at age 25 or so (when he broke up with his second Asian bf). I can't believe it never occurred to him that in practice he never was jerking on manly looking 30 year old bodies, but only on twink looking guys. You never noticed before? It took you really till age 25 to realize:  "I cant feel attraction for 25 and up?"

[vinapu]

 Almost all hetero men would love to fuck 16-19 year old girls. Maybe even early matured 15 year olds. 

just curious, how do you know?

[abidismaili]

just curious, how do you know?

 

You can not be serious. Yet, I will give you an answer because I am a very nice person:

1) The most popular hetero porn is with young women, not 40 year olds

2) Advertisements aimed for men show young women: 18-22 year old women near a car which is to be sold; I never see the car accompanied by a 40 year old woman

3) History. In time of war many soldiers rape women, the age group being raped is not 40+.

4) Sexy video clips of rap music feature young sexy women, not 40 year olds, not even 30 year olds.

 

Why is that you think? If the target group lusts more for 40 than for 18, wouldn't you in above examples expect more 40 year olds then? Yet they do not show, we see young women. Why you think?

 

Since girls fyscially mature earlier than boys, a 16 year old girl can often easily pass for an 18 year old. So yes, I am 100% sure (not 99%, 100%) that the bulk of hetero men prefer 16-20 above a 40 year old for sex.

 

That you doubt that is unbelievable. I just can not believe in your sincerity. 

[steveboy]

If a place would exist to make complaints, this one would be very valid one:

 

We preserve the use of our senses throughout most of our lives.

We preserve a clear mind throughout most of our lives.

But the period of peak sexual attraction is amazingly short.

Between 16 and 20, maybe 25,  in a life that can last over 80 years.

 

Maybe the biggest victims of this reality are women.

Women in their 30s face a tremendous competition from teenagers and young adults

and if they want to have children they must race against time before they are too old for that.

And women may be the most scandalized about men desiring the young chicks.

This is easy to understand. One cannot blame them.  

But they distort the reality of sexual attraction in men.

 

It is not so bad for us gay men, we may become "uncles" at 40.

And from there on it takes much effort, not so much to become attractive,

but to keep from becoming absolutely unattractive. But fortunately,

young boys can find a good market for their attractiveness in many places.

[steveboy]

What I do not understand it why it took him to realize his sexual preference only at age 25 or so (when he broke up with his second Asian bf). I can't believe it never occurred to him that in practice he never was jerking on manly looking 30 year old bodies, but only on twink looking guys. You never noticed before? It took you really till age 25 to realize:  "I cant feel attraction for 25 and up?"

 

Perhaps at 25, when he liked the 17 y.o's, he didn't think this was so abnormal to like someone 8 years younger. 

Hopefully when he reaches 60, and he still lusts for 20 y.o's. (one-third his age), he won't freak out but will accept it as normal.

[Guest Hutchison]

[steveboy]

The blind leading the blind...  

 

This is absolutely true only when the path is in the supernatural, like with theology. 

In subjects of this world,  the blind have other senses and sensors that allow them to lead

(like the white cane of the guide detecting the hole in your cute picture ) 

[abidismaili]

I don't understand the cartoon in the context of this thread