Monk Ordination Ceremony Costs

[ChristianPFC]

 

Religion is like a penis. It's a perfectly fine thing for one to have and take pride in, but when one takes it out and waves it my face we have a problem.

 

(Or variations thereof. I like "but don't show it in public or force it onto children".)

 

I am aghast every time I read in the news that even our civilized countries discuss if the right to perform your religion is more important than human rights (circumcision) or animal protection (kosher slaughtering). For me, it's no question that the right to perform your religion has lowest priority.

 

I hope one day religion will get the place it deserves: being equivalent to supporting a football team or being fan of musician.

[steveboy]

 ChristianFPC:  "Religion is like a penis. It's a perfectly fine thing for one to have and take pride in, but when one takes it out and waves it my face we have a problem."

 

This is brilliant!  The analogy is perfect!

I wish I could use your quotation in a discussion on a religious forum, but I'm afraid it would be too strong for the old ladies...

[steveboy]

That's simply untrue, Mr. Steve, as I could care what unflattering things you have to say about any religion (I've probably said worse); however, there's a difference between making legitimate criticism about Buddhism or Catholicism (or any other religion) and attempting to do it with false information.  You're not entitled to your own "facts."

 

You've claimed Buddhism/temples/monks made money on the ordination deals and that is simply untrue (and you don't support your false claim by questioning why some Thai parents choose to have a big wingding for half the village).  You've also claimed the Catholic Church made money off of weddings and funerals and that's also untrue (Koko's comment above regarding the minimal and voluntary stipend to the officiating priest is quite correct).  

 

As for being "intolerant", I am generally intolerant of posters who blather about topics they know nothing about and then use false information to attempt to back up their supposed position.  At least you're fairly consistent with that problem.

 

You keep blabbering the same accusations over and over.

 

You never asked me to prove that the Catholic church makes money off the weddings and funerals.

Instead you went straight into calling it "false".

Well sir, now it behooves you to prove that my assertion was false, that the church DOES NOT profit from weddings and funerals.

 

One note of caution: the prohibition of simony (the buying or selling of sacred things) is not proof that they don't make a profit, which is made in the name of "standard donations". 

[biguyby]

In my humble opinion religion is just another form of politics with sole purpose of controlling people.

 

Although I do admit to having a soft spot for the current Dalai Lama and some of his sensible philosophical quotes.

[traveller123]

Getting back to the original question.

I live with my Thai partner of seven years in an Isaan village and I have just asked my partner "in a rural village how much should it cost to be a monk".

His reply was about 50,000 baht in a normal village situation where you invite family, friends and near neighbours to the party.

He said in a village people would help to cook the food, perhaps there would be a DJ type person for music and for each table of eight people you would provide a bottle of thai whisky, soda, 2 big bottles of beer and a bottle of coke or fanta.

The attendees would give an envelope containing cash to offset the cost. 

He was open mouthed when I said -not 300,000.

 

If the boyfriend comes from a wealthy Bangkok family I guess you can understand 300,000 but in that situation his family would be paying.

 

As a comparison three years ago we had a party for our new house.

My partner asked me if he could make it a special party because we could not marry.

It was a spectacular day and evening with a stage with entertainers, outside caterers with good food, flowers, ribbon decorations and over 300 people attended.

My partner excelled himself in arranging it all it was really the works.

The net cost after the envelopes was 100,000 baht but it was (in my opinion) a top notch affair

[steveboy]

In my humble opinion religion is just another form of politics with sole purpose of controlling people.

 

Although I do admit to having a soft spot for the current Dalai Lama and some of his sensible philosophical quotes.

 

I also like the Dalai Lama and think that he is a positive leader.

 

Same with Pope Francis.  Hopefully he can improve his church.

[Guest FossilGay]

 

I live with my Thai partner of seven years in an Isaan village...

The net cost after the envelopes was 100,000 baht but it was (in my opinion) a top notch affair

 

Of course the affairs are top notch and you're always the last to know!

[Alexx]

Same with Pope Francis.  Hopefully he can improve his church.

He'd have to do what Gorbachev did to the Soviet Union.

[Smiles]

My old man did his monk-duty last summer, at the unusually late age of 46.

If I recall correctly he told me the bottom cost was somewhere between 40 and 50,000 baht. I would make a good guess that that amount would be much more common than the 300,000 baht mentioned in the OP . . . a figure which probably would mean that only the middle class would be able, or willing, to spend.

On the other hand, any number of Thai's might easily think of borrowing ~ from whoever ~ large figures for this hugely meaningful ceremony, and go into hock for a long time.

I am back in Canada right now for a month or so, but when I talk to him on the phone next I will ask him for a more precise figure and edit it into this post. 

 

If interested, I wrote a rather longish post on Sawatdee last summer about the ceremony ~ at which I attended. Might give the OP some idea of what goes on.  http://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?17228-Boyfriend-becoming-a-Monk-(Part-2)

[traveller123]

Smiles, thanks for providing the link to your report.

I found it very interesting and perhaps it will help me when my 32 year old partner tells me he would like to go and become a monk for a month or so.

[Londoner]

I've just been on the phone to my boyfriend...10000 for the the monks/temple and 40000 for the party. This was in 2001. Kamphaeng Phaet.

[Alexx]

I've just been on the phone to my boyfriend...10000 for the the monks/temple and 40000 for the party. This was in 2001. Kamphaeng Phaet.

I think it's actually not as uncommon as some want to lead us to believe that the temple is asking for a substantial donation from the family. Obviously that will depend on the individual temple/abbot and his business model. From my experience, some temples can be quite aggressive in soliciting donations, and for a religious Thai it can be very hard to resist that pressure.

[newalaan]

My boyfriend is planning on becoming a monk short term and had started discussing the costs with me. Initially it was 150,000 but has now jumped to a whopping 300,000. He has not asked me for the full amount but has asked for me to contribute 100,000. If anyone is able to shed light on the costs involved I would be really grateful.

 

From the replies you can see that 'shedding light' on a specific cost is nigh impossible, there are many differing amounts offered up here by others. Just the same as 'shedding light' on any other formal Thai occasion from marriage to funeral. The cost will vary wildly no matter if HiSo, Issan village or any other scenario.  

 

The situation between the OP and his bf is about trust and knowing something about his bf's family, and not having relatives simply throwing in unnecessary costs because a foreigner is involved. I haven't had any specific experience of Monk Ceremony costs, but have been present when other formal occasions have been discussed in bf's family and village (I have not been involved in any manner in these, just an observer).

 

One of the main problems I have found/observed in the Issan village esp my bf's, is the amount of family/extended family who put in their tuppence-worth of what they consider SHOULD be done, all that does is lead to extra costs to appease this one or that one, keep face for this one and that one. Also the trouble is, once the announcement has been made and things set in motion it's very easy for the costs to spiral, and of course there is no chance of cutting back/cancelling plans as the would be far more damaging in terms of 'face' than the ridiculous cost at the end. As 'smiles' states, poor families have absolutely no compunction about borrowing huge sums of money way above their realistic ability to repay.......that will be a 'tomorrow' problem not a 'today' one so no need to worry!

 

Regarding funeral costs for example. I've seen funerals in bfs village done for Bt10,000 or less and ones for over Bt100,000. All differ because of different circumstances. How many family members involved? how many of them are HiSo in village terms (council members etc..)? how popular was the deceased?. How many family/extended family/friends/friends of friends to be catered for?, will a Morlam Troupe to be requested/required to play? if so how big? single karaoke style for Bt5,000?, troupe of 6 for Bt20,000?, full band and troupe of 12 Bt50,000+? etc and so on and so forth.

 

The wedding arrangements/plans for my bfs sister were a total fiasco and far too detailed and long winded to give an example of here.

 

So basically there is no set amount, no universally accepted amount, no real framework to say what is acceptable and what is over the top. It seems to be many various influences unique to each occasion and those involved, however I'm pretty sure unless a foreigner has respect from and is firm with families extraneous pleas for cash they will most likely be taken advantage of. It helps of course, if your bf has his feet on the ground and is basically strong enough to also stand firm and not get 'carried away' with the situation.       

[Londoner]

In matters relating to Thai culture, religion and traditions, it is best for we falangs to retain a degree of humility.  This thread began with concerns over alleged costs of ordination. The responses indicate that different posters, quoting different Thais in different places, have very different experiences. The truth is that we are outsiders- falangs in an alien culture- and with a few exceptions, have limited knowledge. Accordingly, it is inappropriate to jump to conclusions too readily when it comes to judging someone's honesty and good faith. 

[steveboy]

In matters relating to Thai culture, religion and traditions, it is best for we falangs to retain a degree of humility.  This thread began with concerns over alleged costs of ordination. The responses indicate that different posters, quoting different Thais in different places, have very different experiences. The truth is that we are outsiders- falangs in an alien culture- and with a few exceptions, have limited knowledge. Accordingly, it is inappropriate to jump to conclusions too readily when it comes to judging someone's honesty and good faith. 

 

I basically agree with your post, and I think that it shows good will.

. 

I also have a few thoughts about it:

 

We have much less knowledge than we usually think we have, and we are outsiders in nearly everything. But I find it too restrictive to limit our opinions to subjects we have much knowledge as insiders. No one is perfect, and often our opinions are wrong.  But they are OPINIONS,  not impositions, dictates, laws. A forum like this one offers opportunities to discuss the opinions perceived as wrong, and it is not necessary to demonize wrong opinions.but simply argue against them. It is said that from the discussion comes the light

 

If we want to consider inappropriate to jump to conclusions too readily when judging someone's honesty and good faith, this should also apply to the judgement of the honesty and good faith... of the holder of opinions that we think are wrong. And try to keep the conversation civil.

[Londoner]

Fair enough. Some falangs have had very unfortunate experiences with a particular boyfriend (often  but not always an ex bar-boy) and assume from that that every Thai guy on the scene is dishonest and cynical.

However, I have met Thai guys through my boyfriend who have been treated equally shabbily by  falangs; promises made (not just of a financial nature) and not kept; casual dismissal when a younger or cuter guy arrives, demands on time and activities which are demeaning and inappropriate, such as denying access to friends and even family.

 One bad experience for a falang or a Thai does not necessarily mean that all of our relationships are worthless or exploitative; I have met decent Thai guys who love their falang boyfriends deeply and loyally and falangs who are equally sincere.