Chances of winning legal court case against money boy?

[abidismaili]

I was thinking about the following. I wonder if ever a Farang brought a legal case against a Thai moneyboy because the moneyboy talked him out of money because of lies.

 

Many Farang know of course they are being lied to, but do they know technically they are the victim of a crime? I think many (or all) just accept it and do not take action.

 

In the Netherlands if I talk people out of money because of a lie (for example "can you please give me 1000 EUR, I will give it to a good cause to help a family in need", but then I use the money for myself to by myself a new iPad pro) I am violating the law. I can go to jail.

 

Now consider what is going on in Thailand:

1) Thai boys saying they need money because mother is sick, so you give it. But mother is not sick. He spends it on himself.

 

2) Consider Farang who has Thai boyfriend and gives him each month 20.000 baht to live from because the boy gives him the impression he really truly loves him. The boy knows the only reason he gets this money is because he made the Farang believe he loves him. But the boy has two other such 'arrangements'. He doesn't feel love. Isn't this technically a scam?

 

And we all can make up other examples.

 

Are the examples I mention above also a crime according to Thai law? In other words is not quite a significant part of the Thai moneyboy scene strictly - from a purely legal viewpoint - made up of criminals? I know this is quite a provocative thing to say. But isn't there a kernel of truth in it?

 

What would the chances be of winning a court case when you are the victim of such a scam and have all the information to proof it?

 

This is not about me. I have been lied to, as all of us have. I do not intend to start a court case. In fact I forgive them, because I understand why they do it.  They come often from very poor backgrounds. I even give sometimes money while I know it is a lie.

 

I am just interested what would happen if some Farang made it a court case. if there is rule of law in Thailand you would win easily? Wouldn't you? Assuming you have all the proof?

[witty]

Bring it on to start a precedent.

But will it be worth your time & efforts.

I'd rather laze on the beach & enjoy the sunset.

[Gaybutton]

You would sue a money boy?  Ok, you take him to court and win a judgment.  He's a money boy.  How's he supposed to pay?

 

You know how you can easily avoid all that?  When he asks for money, don't give him any.

[kokopelli]

 

I am just interested what would happen if some Farang made it a court case. if there is rule of law in Thailand you would win easily? Wouldn't you? Assuming you have all the proof?

 

All I can say is that a fool and his money are soon separated so no reason to make it a court case and really make a fool of yourself. 

[TomNg]

The question here is how are you going to prove how he spends your money? Will you be able to obstain the receipts of things he buys using your money? As for love, I believe a person is allowed to love more than one. He says he loves you, that does not mean he is not allowed to love anyone else? In addition, love changes. He may love you at the time the money is given, but later he may not love you anymore. You cannot get back what is already spent. Lastly, I also agree with gaybutton above. In summary, it will costs you even more with the lawsuit. Thus, why bother, life is short, enjoy it to your fullest and be smarter next time :-) :-) :-)

[abidismaili]

You would sue a money boy?  Ok, you take him to court and win a judgment.  He's a money boy.  How's he supposed to pay?

 

You know how you can easily avoid all that?  When he asks for money, don't give him any.

 

I would not sue myself. But I can imagine others will sue out of principle. Even if it only costs you money. Just to prevent the boy from getting away with criminal activities. I think we all agree: criminals should not get away with crimes. Shouldn't that be a principle we all should embrace?

 

But again when it comes to Thai boys I am very understanding and forgiving.

 

But strictly speaking quite a significant part of the boys we encounter are - legally speaking - criminals. But they look so nice and cute, so we forgive. And they get away with their scams. No jail terms. No criminal records. In our home countries we would feel victimized and go to police. In Thailand we just forgive and smile.

[TotallyOz]

One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.

The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.

 

Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.

 

"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"

 

"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.

"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"

 

Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"

 

"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"

 

"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.

 

"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"

 

So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.

 

Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.

 

"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"

 

The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.

 

"I could not help myself. It is my nature."

 

Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.

 

Self destruction - "Its my Nature", said the Scorpion...

[Londoner]

I'd enjoy representing that money-boy in court. I can see the report in the press now; "Rich falang exploits young man's poverty , encouraging an innocent , immature country boy into prostitution- itself a crime-  and then resents being expected to pay." I'd have even more fun were there any doubt about the guy's age. I'm sure that someone from back home could be found to intimate that, perhaps, he was only seventeen when he was seduced...assuming the congress was consensual.

 

Remember what happened when Ocsar Wilde took the Marquis of Queensbury to court? A few hours after losing the case, he was arrested.

[TomNg]

Two other reasons that I think the lawsuit is not advisable

 

1. With the lawsuit, your name and picture may appear on newspapers, internet, and TV. Are you ready for being an instant celebrity who is suing a moneyboy because of being cheated on (haha i would pass even if you‘d give me 100k usd, but it is just me)?

 

2. I assumed during the relationship, the person has had sexual relationship with the boy. Does that also mean that person paid for sex with the money he gave the boy. Then it was prostitution which is still illegal.

 

What do you think?

[abidismaili]

I'd enjoy representing that money-boy in court. I can see the report in the press now; "Rich falang exploits young man's poverty , encouraging an innocent , immature country boy into prostitution- itself a crime-  and then resents being expected to pay." I'd have even more fun were there any doubt about the guy's age. I'm sure that someone from back home could be found to intimate that, perhaps, he was only seventeen when he was seduced...assuming the congress was consensual.

 

Remember what happened when Ocsar Wilde took the Marquis of Queensbury to court? A few hours after losing the case, he was arrested.

 

We do not exploit. The boy offers himself. As go go boy or beer boy or via Hornet. It is just a business. A very well paid business I may add. Not many in the West have a job which gives them 2000 baht for 1 hour work. He sells his body, others sell their brains etc.  There is no exploitation. Or does my employer exploit me for my brain cells? I don't understand this reasoning.

[abidismaili]

Two other reasons that I think the lawsuit is not advisable

 

1. With the lawsuit, your name and picture may appear on newspapers, internet, and TV. Are you ready for being an instant celebrity who is suing a moneyboy because of being cheated on (haha i would pass even if you‘d give me 100k usd, but it is just me)?

 

2. I assumed during the relationship, the person has had sexual relationship with the boy. Does that also mean that person paid for sex with the money he gave the boy. Then it was prostitution which is still illegal.

 

What do you think?

 

I agree that it would not be wise to start a case if the Farang paid for sex. Strictly speaking the Farang violates the law too, or is only the prostitute violating the law? I do not know Thai law regarding prostitution. Maybe only the person offering himself is in violation?

 

But of course if there is a real possibility that not only the boy gets convicted, but also you, then it is not wise of course to start a case.

[Gaybutton]

Just to prevent the boy from getting away with criminal activities.

 

Do you truly believe he wouldn't get away with it?  Upon what grounds would there be a lawsuit that a judge wouldn't laugh right out of court?  He might have lied about why he wanted it.  So what?  You gave him the money voluntarily. Nobody forced you to give him anything. 

 

Farang:  "Gee, your honor.  He told me the money was for a new water buffalo, but he got drunk, bought a motorbike, and a new telephone too."

 

Judge:  "He did?  He changed his mind.  Isn't that terrible?  Ok, show me the contract he signed that guaranteed how he was going to spend the money and while you're at it, prove to me that he didn't.  Otherwise, have a nice day . . ."

[kokopelli]

 

 They come often from very poor backgrounds. I even give sometimes money while I know it is a lie. In fact I forgive them, because I understand why they do it. 

 

I am just interested what would happen if some Farang made it a court case. if there is rule of law in Thailand you would win easily? Wouldn't you? Assuming you have all the proof?

As for a lawsuit, it would be thrown out of court as "frivolous".

 

But forgiveness and charity are true Christian tenets:

 

Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

 

 

[abidismaili]

Do you truly believe he wouldn't get away with it?  Upon what grounds would there be a lawsuit that a judge wouldn't laugh right out of court?  He might have lied about why he wanted it.  So what?  You gave him the money voluntarily. Nobody forced you to give him anything. 

 

 

Ok, so I will not be convicted if i do the following in the Netherlands:

 

"Dear old lady, give me please 1000 EUR, it is for helping my sick grandmother who can not afford health care". 

The old lady gives it to me. I go buy a new iPad Pro. The old lady discovers this and starts a court case. According to your reply I would never be convicted? You truly think that? Trust me: I would end up in jail in my country. It is a scam. Scams are illegal.

 

So in the same scenario why would a Thai boy not be convicted, why would the judge not take it serious? Are scams in Thailand jokes? No serious crimes, as they are everywhere else?

 

(Please assume you have the proof:  for example chat logs, Facebook posts implying he was not visiting his sick mother the day he said, confirmations from others he indeed did buy iPad from your money, etc; please assume there is proof.)

[Gaybutton]

Ok, so I will not be convicted if i do the following in the Netherlands:

 

How should I know what would happen in the Netherlands?  For some strange reason I thought we were talking about Thailand.  And I would say the chances of the boy being convicted, let alone end up paying, are somewhere between zero and nil.

 

Maybe I'm wrong.  Plenty of Thai boys have lied to farang to get money.  Have any of them gone to jail, been fined, been ordered to pay restitution, or even been arrested?

 

Once again, my advice is to simply not give him a substantial amount of money in the first place.  Then you don't have to worry.

[Guest]

If a Thai money boy wants to relieve a sucker of his money, I doubt Thai law would help. Particularly if the sucker is a farang.

[abidismaili]

If a Thai money boy wants to relieve a sucker of his money, I doubt Thai law would help. Particularly if the sucker is a farang.

 

Why do you use the word 'sucker' for the victim of a crime?  The words used by a person, tell a lot about that person. About his social standing, his income, his education, middle class, lower class, etc. The fact you use here - in this context - the word 'sucker' tells me something about you.

 

You clearly seem to imply you associate with the perpetrator of the crime and not with the victim?

 

Even dumb victims, stupid idiots who are a victim of a crime, who fell for the scam because of lack of intelligence, or an unreasonable believe in the good of people, are in our societies protected by the law. 

 

What about the example of the old lady I gave,  who was robbed of her money because of a lie? Isn't the guy who did it a hero and the lady a stupid bitch who deserves what she gets? I mean that is what you probably would think not? The lady deserved it? It is a shame if the guy who robbed her is brought to court. In a fair world he should get away with it? Not?

[ChristianPFC]

April Fool's Day? In principle you are right, but I just imagined you* going to the next police station and bringing evidence and explaining your case, and once they understand, everyone is rolling on the floor with laughter!

 

*You said it's not about you, but for brevity I will refer to you, replace by "someone" if you like.

 

I think you wouldn't even get the case to court (unless you want to spend an extraordinary amount of money on everyone involved - after they had a good laugh!).

 

The equivalent in Europe is not the case you cite, but going to police to report a jaywalker, and bringing your mother because she saw him too.

 

If you are really interested, submit your question to stickmanweekly who will forward it to Sunbelt Asia's legal department who will give free advice.

 

What about the example of the old lady I gave,  who was robbed of her money because of a lie?

Robbery involves violence; the case you invent isn't stealing either, I would call it cheating or embezzlement or misappropriation.

 

Embezzlement is an act withholding assets for the purpose of conversion (theft) of such assets, by one or more persons to whom the assets were entrusted, either to be held or to be used for specific purposes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embezzlement

[steveboy]

I was thinking about the following. I wonder if ever a Farang brought a legal case against a Thai moneyboy because the moneyboy talked him out of money because of lies.

 

I think yours is an intelligent question.  The "legal" part is not the crux of it but simply points to the morality of the act. 

And I agree with the consensus.  The act is immoral, but we all pity the situation of the perpetrator and we accept the victimization like part of the price of being alive.

 

I was the sucker one time, on my first visit to LOS.  I came with a package from this site "utopia-asia" which included a one-day tour of BKK with a guide.  This guide was so sweet!  He took me to the typical tourist spots, to fine restaurants where he was known, to a performance of transvestite show where he was known, to a massage place where he was known, to a store where he was known and where they tried to sell me some expensive rugs (they were out of luck with a careful guy like me!), and he presented me a friend of him who I could perhaps take out another day.  At the end of the tour he explained to me that he kept taking insulin shots for his diabetes, and my soft hart responded with a tip of 1000 baht.  I DON'T KNOW what went on behind my back, but this was the first and only guide I have ever hired throughout my extensive trips.   And I don't feel like a fool, but I had a learning experience, and it was not even expensive.

[abidismaili]

April Fool's Day? In principle you are right, but I just imagined you* going to the next police station and bringing evidence and explaining your case, and once they understand, everyone is rolling on the floor with laughter!

 

*You said it's not about you, but for brevity I will refer to you, replace by "someone" if you like.

 

I think you wouldn't even get the case to court (unless you want to spend an extraordinary amount of money on everyone involved - after they had a good laugh!).

 

 

Hi Christian. No, no joke. But I can imagine people think that. I got the same question from someone else in a  private message. Here for you the same reply I gave him:

 

I only was interested what would happen if finally a Farang doesn't take it anymore, all these scams these boys get away with and goes to court. Because many of these boys are "criminals". If we did what they do, we would go to jail. They get away with it. Isn't that an interesting topic to contemplate about?

 

But I really not understand why a judge or police would laugh at it. Scams are serious crimes.

 

Look, I would never bring charges because I feel pity with many of these boys. Poor backgrounds, need to send money monthly to parents etc, no good education because parents couldn't afford it, choosing for the easy money by being a moneyboy, which not always is easy if you see some Farangs who off them and who they have to have sex with. Because of all that, I pity them, understand it and don't take action. Sometimes I pretend to believe and give the money. It all depends on the boy. What my intuition tells me. If he comes over as essentially a good person, I forgive him his lie, pretend to believe it and give. All out of pity and wanting to help.

 

But still I can't help but thinking: technically he is committing a crime and getting away with it.

[abidismaili]

I think yours is an intelligent question.  

 

Thank you. It is I think an interesting topic to chat about with each other here in this forum. We all encounter it, and we all forgive them, we all do not take action, we all let "criminals" go off for free :-)

[Guest whall]

Come on now....

[kokopelli]

Agree with ChristianPFC, a great April Fool prank.  I do think abidismali is having a good laugh over the responses to his post..  A post "ad absurdum" and anyone taking it seriously is being duped. 

[Gaybutton]

Agree with ChristianPFC, a great April Fool prank.  I do think abidismali is having a good laugh over the responses to his post..  A post "ad absurdum" and anyone taking it seriously is being duped. 

 

Then I guess I got got.  I did take it seriously.  Oh well . . .

 

Even so, when some of these boys start hitting you up for money, be careful.  Just a few days ago I met a boy I liked.  Things went beautifully.  Then came the first red light.  "I no have money in telephone."  Ok, I topped up his phone for him.  Then came "I not have money for eat."  Just today came, "I not have money for pay room."  If that is true, he still doesn't have money for "pay room" and it's going to stay that way - at least as far as it concerns me.  I liked the boy.  I hope he finds a walking ATM farang, but it isn't going to be me.  Been there.  Done that.  Never again.

 

"You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time.  But you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

-  Abraham Lincoln

[Guest]

Why do you use the word 'sucker' for the victim of a crime?  The words used by a person, tell a lot about that person. About his social standing, his income, his education, middle class, lower class, etc. The fact you use here - in this context - the word 'sucker' tells me something about you.

 

Firstly, why do you think this is would be a crime in Thailand ?    It might just about be a crime in your home country, but if you knew anything about the world, you might just realise laws and cultures differ from country to country. 

Do you have any evidence that this is a crime in Thailand ?

 

As for the word sucker, well if you actually read books written by some of the most educated and successful financial experts, guess what ?    They use the word sucker when referring to one. 

Perhaps you should expand your horizons and read more ?  

 

Incidentally, most people here recognise the way do deal with financial matters in Thailand is to think carefully before opening your wallet.  There are about 195 other countries where this advice is also good.