"Old days" nostalgia.

[Guest]

I'm not sure what the internet copyright rules are. Books have a time limit on copyright, typically 70 years or so, so I doubt the internet would be any longer.

Or more importantly, whether Mr Briggs preferred to post incognito or not.

 

What I will say is it was nice to see some of those old photos from Phuket.

 

Also the Copa Splash Club in Pattaya. Boys in whities on the stage and near nudity in the pool would be more interesting than the current drag acts.

[Gaybutton]

Mr. Briggs had a boyfriend who ran a local restaurant.  I think a good gesture for his memory would be just giving him 20,000 baht.  I know that would make Mr. Briggs happy!

 

Actually that would be a terrible gesture.  That so-called boyfriend literally abandoned Allen toward the end.  He would often leave Allen completely alone and helpless in his condo.  Friends would come and find Allen unable to move and lying in his own filth, and he had been that way for hours.  No food.  No water.  No nothing.  When Allen was dying in the hospital the boy was rarely there at all and was interested only in what would happen with Allen's belongings and money.

 

There is an appropriate gesture - but giving him money is not exactly the gesture I have in mind.

[williewillie]

Many can verify gaybutton's account. The restaurant was called Little Mango and is now out of business.

[TotallyOz]

Not to be rude, but who wants to take care of someone in their dying days?  Not many.  I had an aunt died a few years back that was beloved by the entire family and only 3 out of 15 of us took time to help her in the last years of her life even though she helped every one of us.  Many could not do it and it did not mean they didn't love her or she them.  Some are just incapable of watching this happen to someone and I don't begrudge them what they had when they were livelier. 

[vinapu]

Not to be rude, but who wants to take care of someone in their dying days?  .....  Some are just incapable of watching this happen to someone and I don't begrudge them what they had when they were livelier. 

nobody wants  to watch it and to take care of dying but this is not excuse to abandon them , either out of compassion , sense of duty or both.

 

In particular if  dying are somebody's  benefactors or one  can  expect  to be beneficiary of somebody's death,  sense of gratitude should kick in. 

 

Three   out of 15  were taking care of dying relative, I just wonder how many were crowding  lawyer's office when will was scheduled to be open. I hope three as well.

 

Those are difficult issues  and it's good not to be judgmental but in case of your dying friend  being neglected by his boyfriend I find advocating giving him some spoils a bit of strange. But I don't know whole story perhaps

[Gaybutton]

who wants to take care of someone in their dying days?

 

I apologize for going off topic, but there are some things I think need to be said.

 

Nobody relishes having to do that, but at least get somebody, even if a professional nurse has to be hired - and that would not be particularly expensive in Thailand - to take care of the person you're living with and supposedly love.  You don't just abandon him and the responsibility that's supposed to go with it.  This guy did nothing.

 

You might remember my old boyfriend.  Even though we "finished" several years ago, I was still putting him through college and helping him as best as I could.  He was six months away from earning a doctorate.

 

Several weeks ago he became quite ill and had to be hospitalized.  He was in the hospital nearly two weeks before anyone even told me about it.  Once I knew, I was in that hospital every day and was watching his condition get worse and worse until he finally looked like a dying anorexic.  He became so weak that he couldn't even move his legs and arms without help.  He had to be catheterized and put in adult diapers and developed bed sores.

 

If you think that was easy to watch, and be virtually helpless to do anything about it, think again.  I paid to have him moved to a private room.  His father stayed with him 24/7.

 

I was not responsible for him, but I did everything I could to try to help.  The point is no matter how difficult it may be to watch somebody you're close to suffer and die, that is not - at least to me - a good enough excuse to have just abandoned Allen.  If you truly believe that is something to reward with 20,000 baht, or anything at all, I can only say your opinion is different from mine.

 

19 days ago he died.  His family had no money, so I also paid for his funeral.  It's going to take me a very long time to be able to get over it. He was only 28.

[vinapu]

Gaybutton , you reward is knowledge that you did right thing in circumstances. My condolences.

 

Vinapu

[williewillie]

I have to agree with Michael. Expecting a young Thai guy to take care of a very sick old man is asking a lot.

While it's admirable, it's only for saints and a few rare individuals.

Unfortunately, there aren't many nursing homes or care facilities for the old in Pattaya, especially when diapers need frequent

changing, the smell is awful and it's never ending thankless drudgery. Add dementia, mood swings a host of other conditions.

I was around for all this with Allen (but not directly involved) and while his bf was vilified, I thought it was too much to expect or ask for and that Allen

needed 24 hour care in his final days. Many disagreed and despised the bf.

Fortunately, several farang friends came to the rescue and made arrangements.

Quite a few farangs refused to ever eat at

Little Mango and never forgave or forgot.

[williewillie]

Gaybutton , you reward is knowledge that you did right thing in circumstances. My condolences.

 

Vinapu

Gaybutton was saintly. Always sad when people die so young.

[Guest whall]

Sorry for your loss.

[a447a]

The boyfriend was willing to abandon his partner in his hour of need.

 

Was he also willing to abandon his inheritance from his partner?

 

No-one is suggesting the boyfriend give 24 hour care - they've got nurses for that. But to totally abandon him is unforgivable. I hope he received nothing from Allen.

[TotallyOz]

GB, I am so sorry for your loss.  I think I know the one you are talking about and he was a very nice young man.

 

As for my situation, I support 2 boys full time and have for over 10 years.  Both are great and wonderful to me and I choose to give them money every week and pay for school and all the other shit I do for them.

 

When I am sick, one of them looks after me.  The other one is a little shit and does only what I ask.  But, I can look at both of them and say that if I were sick and dying that I hope that someone would not look at them and expect them to do more than they do.  I pay them.  It is a salary.  I do this as I adore them. But, I would never expect them to be 24/7 caregivers for a long period of time.  Most of the boys we are all with are country boys. They do not have good examples of what is the right thing in these situations.  I would roll over in my grave if someone were upset with one of the 2 boys that I have truly loved and cared for for so many years based on the fact they didn't want to change my underwear or clean me or whatever.  My life with them has been wonderful and that is the end of it.  The rest is not important to me.  And, I would not expect anything of them.  That does not mean I don't think they won't be there.  I think they will.  But, only for what they can do and when they can do it.  And, if my friends get upset with them based on what happens then, I'll be disappointed in them.  But, I am a realist.  I know what my money is good for and what it isn't and I'll be sure to have enough money to cover myself in my time of need.

 

A good friend once owned a very successful escort service in NYC and he always told his clients, "never fall in love with a boy based on money as that will always be what the relationship is about."   I am no fool.   Anyone who think that the boys stay with someone 2 or 3 times their age because they like older men or someone out of shape because they like fat men, well, they are the fools.  It is a relationship based on money.  The end.

[kokopelli]

As long as the money is flowing into the boyfriend's pocket he should be willing to do whatever he can to assist his benefactor in his time of need. If the shoe was on the other foot, the farang would be at his Thai friend's bedside as was Gaybutton.

[TotallyOz]

As long as the money is flowing into the boyfriend's pocket he should be willing to do whatever he can to assist his benefactor in his time of need. If the shoe was on the other foot, the farang would be at his Thai friend's bedside as was Gaybutton.

 

Not every farang would be at the Thai friend's bedside.  I would for sure. But, please don't think we are in the majority.  When the going gets tough, many get going really fast.  I have seen many many Thai boys died in the hospital and their farang left them when things got rough.  I have even had to help pay for a few of those hospital stays.  So, while I know you may think you are right, I politely disagree.

[firecat69]

This discussion just makes me sure that you should be able to get assisted suicide whenever you want it and it is nobodies business especially any Holy Rollers from churches.

[kokopelli]

Not every farang would be at the Thai friend's bedside.  I would for sure. But, please don't think we are in the majority.  When the going gets tough, many get going really fast.  I have seen many many Thai boys died in the hospital and their farang left them when things got rough.  I have even had to help pay for a few of those hospital stays.  So, while I know you may think you are right, I politely disagree.

I can only speak for myself but I would be there for my boyfriend and I know you would be there for yours and for others.

[Moses]

Ok, my soul is quite cold and I have thick skin.

 

What can I tell about this situation? Michael, you can keep to count it is "about money story" (while it isn't), but it is OK. But I have to say: When  BF doesn't care about website and reports, when he has restaurant and not has 5 bucks yearly +3 bucks monthly for hosting (free hostings also still exist) to keep domain working and to save works of Mr.Brigs, I don't feel any obligations in front of him in this situation. 

 

I didn't copy/paste from working site. I fairly pay by week of my life for first 10 pages of reports and will pay more if I will continue. FB was lazy and lost reports, I spend week of my life to search and restore and you think I should pay to BF? Are you kidding on me?

 

My question is what I can make for memory of Mr.Briggs but not what I can do for to tamper his exBF.

 

Side note: may be my reply sounds rude, but it is result of my English skills, if so I'm sorry. 

[Guest whall]

Michael. Sounds like you're a very realistic person. I like that.

[Jasper]

I would roll over in my grave if someone were upset with one of the 2 boys that I have truly loved

I laughted hard imagining someone rolling over in his grave.

On a serious note, it seems that you love your boys unconditionally and I know it is hard to find these days.

[Alexx]

Most of the boys we are all with are country boys. They do not have good examples of what is the right thing in these situations.

I think you've got that upside down. I'd say country boys are more familiar with giving care, if anything; city dwellers are more likely to outsource that. Two former boyfriends of mine had taken care of their ageing grandparents who had lived with them in their respective village home, and they were great with me whenever I felt unwell (nothing serious), too.

 

To be clear, I agree with you that it's unreasonable to expect that your boyfriend nurses you when you're dying, I just wouldn't single out country boys in the way you did. If anyone has experienced nursing dying people at home, if only for a lack of alternatives, it's them.

[TotallyOz]

Ok, my soul is quite cold and I have thick skin.

 

What can I tell about this situation? Michael, you can keep to count it is "about money story" (while it isn't), but it is OK. But I have to say: When  BF doesn't care about website and reports, when he has restaurant and not has 5 bucks yearly +3 bucks monthly for hosting (free hostings also still exist) to keep domain working and to save works of Mr.Brigs, I don't feel any obligations in front of him in this situation. 

 

I didn't copy/paste from working site. I fairly pay by week of my life for first 10 pages of reports and will pay more if I will continue. FB was lazy and lost reports, I spend week of my life to search and restore and you think I should pay to BF? Are you kidding on me?

 

My question is what I can make for memory of Mr.Briggs but not what I can do for to tamper his exBF.

 

Side note: may be my reply sounds rude, but it is result of my English skills, if so I'm sorry. 

 

You said, "you think I should pay to BF? Are you kidding on me?"

 

My answer is simple. No, I am not kidding you.  You fucking asked a question about paying for his works.  I gave what I thought he would want.  You may accept that or not.  Up to you.  But, don't get upset when you get an honest response from a question you asked.

 

My mother always said, "don't ask a question to something you don't want an answer for." 

 

That said, your statements about boyfriend are absurd.  You honestly think a Thai boy would know how to keep any of that up? Really?  If so, you are really in need of some Thailand shock therapy.   The fact that you feel no obligation to the BF is understandable.  You feel under no obligation to anyone apparently.  If you can find something and recover it and profit from it, it is OK in your mind.  That is up to you (spoken in Thai accent).   Tells me what I need to know.  And, I hope you don't think I'm being rude as I am not trying to be.  But, I hate when someone asks a question and then gets upset when they don't get the answer they wanted.  Perhaps I should have said, "Oh, Moses, you are so wonderful for doing this. Thank you.  I am sure Alen would love you bringing back his reports.  You are so kind to do this so selflessly. You are wonderful and kind.  You are a true asset to the gay Thailand community.  I know you want nothing in return for this and the week you spent on this could have been spent doing other important deeds.  You are amazing.  Thank you for being so great."   LOL   Nope, that is not my response. But, others will tell you that I'm sure.  Just not me. So, don't ask.

[Moses]

 You fucking asked a question about paying for his works. 

 

....

 

And, I hope you don't think I'm being rude as I am not trying to be.

 

Yes. I do. And not cause we have different points of view, but cause you are just fuckin rude.

[colmx]

Wow I am very surprised at how rude and unreasonable Michael is being... Just because the majority disagree with you is no need to be so ignorant...

 

GayButton - very sorry for your loss, and fair play to you for supporting your ex until the end.

 

On the original topic: for what its worth, I just happen to have a series of mails that myself, Allen and Idaho (his Webmaster) exchanged back in July 2001, on the very subject of the weekly reports and downloading to keep them for posterity and for future reference.

 

I can confirm that both Allen and Idaho were very supportive of the idea and Allen took delight in knowing that his (older) reports were indeed of interest and use to people.

 

I only met both a handful of times, so I can't claim to know them as well as others on this site, but I do believe from our correspondence that Allen would be very happy that Moses is restoring his legacy.

[TotallyOz]

Yes. I do. And not cause we have different points of view, but cause you are just fuckin rude.

 

I tried to have a very peaceful and calm discussion with you. But, you didn't like my answer.  And, I am rude for that?

 

Wow I am very surprised at how rude and unreasonable Michael is being... Just because the majority disagree with you is no need to be so ignorant...

 

LOL  Rude and ignorant?  Well, it is good to know that you put in unreasonable in there as well.  Might I inquire as to whether or not you are in the GOP?  You seem to have developed some of their debate skills.

[Gaybutton]

GayButton - very sorry for your loss, and fair play to you for supporting your ex until the end.

 

Thank you and everyone else who posted and sent me PMs about this.  I very much appreciate the kind thoughts.  I never intended to be public about my personal troubles, but it did seem to me to be appropriate considering some of the context of this topic.

 

One of my friends told me a comment someone else told him regarding the terrible experience I went through, and really still am going through, was "I guess GB isn't the heartless son of a bitch I thought he is."

 

I liked that comment, but shhhhh!  Don't tell anybody.  I'd hate to see my reputation go out the window . . .