Catering to the Asians

[brall3]

On another thread was written: "Dream Boys caters exclusively to Chinese customers. ••• farangs are an afterthought". This seems to be true and not only at Dream Boys.

 

Yesterday another board member and I decided to go to Hero, our favorite place for massages. As we sat in the viewing area, only one guy stood up and smiled at us. The other 20 or more guys remained seated, playing with their cell phones, talking with one another, etc. etc. totally indifferent to our being there. There were several Asian customers, I do not know what country they were from, going back and forth throughout the place. A few minutes later two additional Asian customers arrived escorted by one of the greeters. Almost immediately and as if on cue, the boys jumped up, struck various muscular poses while smiling at the newly arrived Asian customers. My buddy and I looked at each and he said WTF! Our host just sat there, looking around and smiling. We immediately decided to go somewhere else.

 

We explained why we were leaving, and we did not even receive the customary "sorry". We ended up at Prince and each of us had a good time.

 

It appears that the good old days of Thailand catering to the farangs are over at some venues, and possibly coming to an end at others. Oh, well, all good things eventually comes to an end; such is life.

[Guest Prakanong]

It appears that the good old days of Thailand catering to the farangs are over at some venues, and possibly coming to an end at others. Oh, well, all good things eventually comes to an end; such is life.

 

The businesses do not cater to farangs or any particular cultural group - they cater to people with money who are willing to spend it freely and without fuss.  At the moment, the mainland Chinese, Hong Kongers and Singaporeans seem to fit this bill.  They are also perceived as being fun, young and trendy and Thai people in general love anything that is young, fun and trendy (who doesn't!).  We are quick to emulate all sorts of trends without understanding what we are emulating most of the time!

 

That said, it is bad form to ignore any customer who has come to patronize your business and who observes the general etiquette of the venue (as opposed to, say, a loud and poorly dressed customer).  Based on what you reported, you did the right thing by walking out and going to another establishment where you received the kind of service that you felt you deserved.

[vinapu]

I'm past my prime but never felt THAT neglected  at Hero or anywhere else for that matter that I would feel like leaving.

 

But if you did, nothing wrong in looking somewhere else , much better than forcing us on boys or boys on us if they are not interested.

 

I in fact rather like to be left alone although I usually make decision very fast , either I like what's presented or not.

 

I'm glad PRINCE is mentioned more often those days, for while we did not hear about then place at all.

 

Prakanong is right - attention and smiles are where money, tips and drinks are. May be current crop of farangs is less inclined to spread wealth around and Asian guys are getting their share of attention?

[Guest Prakanong]

Prakanong is right - attention and smiles are where money, tips and drinks are. May be current crop of farangs is less inclined to spread wealth around and Asian guys are getting their share of attention?

 

It's hard to generalise about these things although it certainly seems that the Chinese are the flavour of the month at large-scale venues seeking to fill up seats.  On the other hand, Chines groups (as opposed to young and presumably more sophisticated Chinese gays) are not particularly liked by servers and kitchen staff at restaurants because of their loudness, bad manners and condescending attitude although restaurant owners welcome them with open arms.

[paulsf]

I'm a bit more with Vinapu on this. I go to Hero a lot and it doesn't bother me if boys don't line up when I arrive. I like that I can sit and watch for awhile with no pressure. I think of the times boys line up, you pick, and as headed to room a very hot boy or two will come walking in. Hero is so big and busy boys are coming ang going constantly.

But I agree, if your not comfortable, better to move on.

 

I had an interesting conversation with a boy last night. My bf is home with family on this trip so I get to play a bit more. One of his good friends that I've known for awhile came over to my apt. We got to talking about the customers and what they pay.

He said they love American Farang because they are the best tippers. But not many around. European are good but lots of drinking.

Asian customers are demanding and pay bad. But you can't turn down business in slow season.

 

He came over and we played and hung out for about 3 hours. I gave him 2000. He said if I was Chinese I would only give him 1200.

[witty]

To deserve the extra 800 baht, the boy has to meet the demands of his Asian customers.

[forky123]

I've not had a problem in Hero before and not been on this trip. I'd be happy if the guys didn't line up at Hero as I always feel a bit like I'm the one in the fish tank there. You don't say where you were sitting? On the couches in front of the glass or in the restaurant area? If I'm hot after the walk up Soi Alley 11 I often prefer to sit in the restaurant area with a glass of iced water where I can observe the guys without feeling I have to pick one straight away. When I do that, only a few of them try to catch my attention, the others will often wait until I either indicate a choice or move to the couches.

 

Of course if you feel uncomfortable, you should walk away. I'd be slow to blame it on race though, I think it often gets blamed for situations that are caused by differences in culture and how we react to them and when confronted by them.

 

[edit- Just re read that you were in the viewing area. I don't know the reason you were ignored and have never experienced the same thing there. I've never felt any difference in my treatment there]

[vinapu]

for shy types best massage place to ponder choices is Bangkok Massage in soi Twilight.

 

One can park himself at Maxi's across the soi , nurse  a drink and see boys without either being bothered or feeling ignored. 

 

Senso on another hand is for less shy since lobby is small and boys are very close to  customer. But what a sight ! It's just me but I never saw boy there I'd not be willing to use services of.

[Guest ladygaygay]

He came over and we played and hung out for about 3 hours. I gave him 2000. He said if I was Chinese I would only give him 1200.

 

Seems rather random and arbitrary. Depends on boy, service, expectations on both sides, etc etc.  1200 for short time sounds reasonable to me.

 

One thing I have learned from boys about tipping is to take what they say with a pinch of salt and a spoonful of lube.  When I tip generously for good service, then I am the best guy in town, '"good heart", walk on water, have an invisible halo personally blessed by Buddha etc etc. 

 

When I tip less for poor service or ignore their requests for a new mobile phone or to go "chopping", then they will sneer, smirk and dutifully remind me of this farang or that Japanese who tipped them 5000Bt just to see them naked etc etc.  I know they are working me to see if I budge/am an easy target.  Thankfully I don't have a fragile ego and am not easily intimidated.

[vinapu]

all tips are arbitrary, it's their very nature. Soi Twilight boys expect probably more than 1200, soi 6 will be happy with even 1000.

 

If I would be happy with company certainly I tip 2000 for 3 hrs but this is pure theory as I almost never off short time but unfortunately  sometimes boys are converting long time to short one using some excuse and learning what undertipping means in the process. Mercifully rarely though.

 

I don't blame boys for trying to extract more and those stories about 5000 may be even true but I don't think they really expect us to be that generous but never hurts to give it a try they may think.

 

But you are right, sometimes those requests may be intimidating if somebody doesn't know how to stand his ground , once I had a case when boy did not want to leave room if not given what he wanted as tip - story described in my Back to Thailand thread from Nov 2013. 

[williewillie]

The stereotype:

Old obese farang nurses a glass of water for hours, occupying prime seat/table, no tipping, no drinks for boy or bar staff.

Chinese/Asian customer, usually in groups, order liquor/setups, buy drinks for boy and bar staff and drop thousands of baht.

Farang also complain about everything, smug superior attitude and cheap.

You are Thai, who do you cater to?

Of course, this a a stereotypical situation and some farangs are generous and don't complain or keep

asking for ice for their water.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

I don't understand. Why is everyone assuming that the OP was talking about Chinese customers? He said ASIANS - for all we know, those people who walked in could have been other Thais, or Burmese, Indians, Pakistanis, Iranians, Arabs, Turks, Vietnamese, Japanese or Koreans.

[a447a]

Brall3, I'm guessing those Asian customers were given the royal treatment because they either give big tips or are regular customers, or both.

 

Having said that, I've noticed over the years how mobile phones have taken over the guys' lives and they seem more interested in them than they are in the customers.

 

If I go into a gogo bar or massage place and the guys don't make eye contact or smile at me, I figure they are not all that interested in doing business with me so don't bother wasting their time. If they're not interested in me before I off them, how much more interested will they be back in the room?

 

As for the stories about big tips they have received from other customers, I generally don't believe it. They just say that hoping you will match it. Not that I blame them; I'd do the same if the shoe were on the other foot. You only need one customer to pay up and you are already ahead.

[firecat69]

Great thread with new posters arriving which is great . Hope it continues.

 

Few comments :  I have forgotten how much fun massages can be and will add them more then I have in the recent years. I hate the places with 3 floors of steps and will have to avoid those.

 

Have to agree many customers do not tip boys in Bars even in small amounts like 20 baht just for them being on stage. I frequently hand out 100 baht bills on leaving to boys who exhibited dancing skills or smiles supposedly for me. (hehe)

 

I rarely stay in a Bar long enough to drink more then 1 drink and find there is no difference between water or booze (same price) Bar is already making a bundle on customers ordering water.

 

Overstaying your welcome for 1 drink is something I never personally experience except for shows and if I am paying 280-400 baht for a water I would definitely nurse it to get through the show.

 

Waiter always gets what is left from 100 baht notes. So in Pattaya that might be 20-40 baht in BT except for shows when it may be 50 baht.  Sunee beer Bars depends what change is because things can be so cheap but at least 20-40 baht.

[forky123]

I don't understand. Why is everyone assuming that the OP was talking about Chinese customers? He said ASIANS - for all we know, those people who walked in could have been other Thais, or Burmese, Indians, Pakistanis, Iranians, Arabs, Turks, Vietnamese, Japanese or Koreans.

Why are you saying everyone is assuming the OP is talking about Chinese when in reality only a couple of people have mentioned them and in generic comment rather than specific reply?

[pong]

Remark @prince:

it was mentioned soon after opening-on another forum, and the verdict then was that it was just pure and absolute money-gauging-with the (then?) lady running it discussing loudly in Thai with the boys when any non-Thai looking customer came in, betting how much he would spend and tip. Plus that most reports of services then were also of the type: get them in+out asap and with ammap (=as much money as poss).

[vinapu]

Remark @prince:

it was mentioned soon after opening-on another forum, and the verdict then was that it was just pure and absolute money-gauging-with the (then?) lady running it discussing loudly in Thai with the boys when any non-Thai looking customer came in, betting how much he would spend and tip. Plus that most reports of services then were also of the type: get them in+out asap and with ammap (=as much money as poss).

with string of positive reports from the PRINCE we received recently this is most likely thing of the past.

 

Sometimes customer unhappy for valid reason tries to extrapolate his one time bad experience for the whole establishment.

 

It's why I advise everybody contemplating any place just to and see for himself.

 

For me prime example would be SENSO from where we had very mixed reports yet for me every visit was memorable in the best of sense. Sure , prices are high but at least they have something to show for them IMNSHO.

 

Another example would be ARENA in the old location downstairs , yest it was run down but boys smiles and general attitude compensated it for me.

[vinapu]

 I frequently hand out 100 baht bills on leaving to boys who exhibited dancing skills or smiles supposedly for me. (hehe)

 

 

Waiter always gets what is left from 100 baht notes. 

On leaving bar, with boy or not,  I always tip 100  best looking boy on stage, sometimes it will be two or three of them.

 

Waiter gets 20 per serving ie. if he brings two drinks for me and a companion it's still 20 , if I order second drink later it's again 20.

 

Big cock participants if I try the wares 100, fuck show couple 100, boy sitting with me if invited at least 100 , more if we get intimate / generally I don't tough  boys THERE in the open  but at times it's them who initiate move then need to be rewarded for bravery IMO /

[Guest]

Western countries are frequently borrowing and printing money to import goods made in places like China. So it is inevitable our wealth will flow to the East.   Then some of the Asian countries have low taxes, so if you have any reasonably successful business, it's possible to make some serious money.

 

I suppose most of the Asians still take shorter holidays, so if they are prepared to show up for a short trip & tip well, then they will be the ones receiving most of the attention. 

I've already had one case of a someone ask for 3000 baht short time in Toy Boys, which I declined.   On my next visit he plus another boy from elsewhere were offed by a Chinese customer.   To my eyes, he had probably offed the 2 best looking workers on the Pattaya gay scene.  There will be more of this.

 

If we look at the last 10~20 years, I suppose there will have been other nationalities and ethnic groups who have (fairly or unfairly) gained a reputation for not tipping as well as the westerners.   Possibly the ones who try to not even buy a drink.

Well, now there is more wealth floating around in Asia, we may have to get used to the idea that some customers just have more money, so we will not always be seen in the first tier group of customers.

[firecat69]

Lot of truth to what you say but Thai boys still put great importance on how they are treated.

 

That is not to say that all Westerners treat boys with more respect but at least for now many still feel we are the best customers as long as we pay them fairly!

[Guest abang1961]

I am Asian, Singaporean.

 

Most Asians have a couple of days off.. like the weekend and flying to Bangkok seems the obvious choice of destination.

It is cheap, functional and sleazy. That said, giving a few extra baht to the boys/staff is NEVER a problem.  It is like buying one less silk tie ..

[Guest ladygaygay]

all tips are arbitrary, it's their very nature...

 

I don't blame boys for trying to extract more and those stories about 5000 may be even true but I don't think they really expect us to be that generous but never hurts to give it a try they may think.

 

But you are right, sometimes those requests may be intimidating if somebody doesn't know how to stand his ground , once I had a case when boy did not want to leave room if not given what he wanted as tip - story described in my Back to Thailand thread from Nov 2013. 

 

On the contrary, I do think there is a minimum tip amount that is expected by the boys and there's no point for me to repeat it here.  By arbitrary and random, I was referring to the story of the boy telling his farang customer that a Chinese would only tip 1200 Baht.  We don't know what the boy was like, whether he was a stunner, great in bed and what the farang customer was like, what they actually did, whether there was chemistry, etc etc.  All these factors might impact on the final tip (i.e. beyond the expected minimum).  Also, unless he's slept with all the millions of Chinese Johns given the size of the Chinese population, I don't think he can generalize such a neat sum of 1200 Baht for all Chinese customers.  That's like saying all Americans are fat and only eat at MacDonald's!

 

I don't believe the 5000 Baht tips were genuine in the context of the boys I was with and to me tipping them that amount because you felt shamed or intimidated is not generous but foolish.  And I can't say I won't blame them for trying because to me, that is attempting a con and doesn't reflect well on the boy attempting it.  This is something I would not find acceptable/comfortable anywhere with anyone, not just Thai boys.  What do I do about it? Wish them well on their good fortune and joke with them that perhaps they should share some of it with me!   I then move on to the next one - happy to tip fairly - and generously if the service warrants it - in an atmosphere of mutual respect.

[vinapu]

 

I've already had one case of a someone ask for 3000 baht short time in Toy Boys, which I declined.   On my next visit he plus another boy from elsewhere were offed by a Chinese customer.   To my eyes, he had probably offed the 2 best looking workers on the Pattaya gay scene.  There will be more of this.

 

in market economy no wonder if one of best looking boys in Pattaya, whatever it means, requests triple of going rate and gets it.

 

Fortunately for all , there are plenty of still very good looking boys who may be less demanding.

[a447a]

I don't see it as a con at all. These guys are free agents and can charge whatever the market will bear.

 

I just made a post about a guy who appears in a photo in the thread on Dreamboys in the Thailand Business forum. I offed him many times when I first went to Bangkok back in the early 2000s. In those days, he asked for 3000 short time and I paid it, thinking that was the going rate. Of course, it was more than double, as I later found out. But did he con me? I don't think so. If a customer is willing to pay - and I actually thought I was getting value for money - then why not? After all, it was my decision to pay. When I first saw him naked back in the room, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. Christ, I would have paid double!

 

Regarding that 1200 tip, I've spoken to lots of gogo boys about the Chinese over the past couple of years, ever since they took over the market. Not one has ever had a good thing to say about them, even though most of the boys had never had a Chinese customer. But word gets around from those who have. They all complain that they are very poor tippers.

 

I agree with you that there is a minimum tip expected by the guys. And some obviously don't need the money, or are not that desperate. It's why when, at the end of the evening when they still haven't been offed, they'd rather go home alone than accept a lesser amount.

 

The Thai way of doing business mystifies me. In other countries prices fall when business is slow, but in Thailand the exact opposite happens. I was in Dreamboys earlier this month and the place was practically deserted. At the end of the evening all the guys were still on stage. Yet the owner was still charging 450 baht for a drink and the waiters were still telling us it was 2000 short time. They are doing the guys a huge disservice by scaring potential customers away. If drinks were cheaper between shows, more customers would have a guy sit with them and the chances for offs would skyrocket. The bar would make more money from drinks and earn more from off fees. But no. This is Thailand. I give up!

[vinapu]

On the contrary, I do think there is a minimum tip amount that is expected by the boys 

 

completely agree although expected minimum not necessarily is linear.

 

The same boy  may expect more from me , prematurely grey haired farang than from say ChristianPFC, much younger guy. More from American or Japanese than from fellow Thai or Chinese.

 

On repeat if you tipped him 1000 previously this is what he will be expecting but may look for 1500 from me because his bar friend told him this is what he got from me last time.

 

I never believed stories of client throwing fistful of notes at boys until I saw it with my very eyes and notes weren't green / 20 / but red / 100 /. 

Some people just express their feel good factor by throwing money around and still others by trying to squeeze ever single baht   not for being cheap but often because they just want to get best deal for a sake of it. 

 

I don't see it as a con at all. These guys are free agents and can charge whatever the market will bear.

 

I just made a post about a guy who appears in a photo in the thread on Dreamboys in the Thailand Business forum. I offed him many times when I first went to Bangkok back in the early 2000s. In those days, he asked for 3000 short time and I paid it, thinking that was the going rate. 

you just made my day, the same here. My first off back in 2001 got 2000 baht  for short time because I thought that is a standard tip but did not know difference between short and long time.

 

I agree that sometimes boys  don't need a money or are acting like they don't. Agree to long time and then leaving under lousy excuse after hour knowing that they get 1/3 of LT tip, I don't even get upset with this anymore.