Hot and Rain in Pattaya

[firecat69]

Your example if it happened 5% of the time , you would have a little argument but in Pattaya I would have to say I have a very very large sample to draw from and never have been asked for more then 1500 ST and this would have been a Coyote Dancer at a Disco etc, not a boy on Gayromeo. I am talking about Pattaya. Amazing you have to go back in your little book 2 and 4 years to find an example of boy asking for an exorbitant amount and both times in BKK.

 

And even then it is clear the boy did not need the money or want to go with you and thus the high offer. Totally different from trying to offer much less then most agree is the minimum because you are trying to take advantage of the boy.

 

 

A large % of the time boys don't even ask but I always tell them 1000 ST which most of the times I increase unless boy did the bare minimum.

 

I can't argue with someone getting approached out of the blue by a boy and offering his services at a low rate This is completely different from someone contacting a boy and offering 400 ST, 700 LT.

 

 

 

I doubt very much that this kind of person does not know what the acceptable minimums are and is just trying to see if he can cheat the boy out of a fair price because of slow season etc.

 

Let's not mix the 2 situations. 2am waking down the street and farang gets offered sex for less then 1000 is completely different from initiating the possible liaison online when farang full knows the acceptable minimum.

 

In the first case I would hope if the farang accepted, he would give more when they were finished but I find it hard to fault him when he was not the one showing the interest

 

.Saranrom completely different animal . Boy is not coming to you but rather you are on his street looking to go to a ST room for what most likely will be very ST compared to ST initiated on Social Media sites where they boy is coming to you.

 

Also in your instance a Gayboy may find you interesting because of your younger age and fluency and make an offer that most of us would not have happen to us.

[Guest whall]

I would be very hesitant to use the phrase "taking advantage of" in regards to paying an adult for sex. There are many people that would say that phrase no matter what amount was being offered. To me taking advantage of someone is telling them one thing but knowing that something else is what you had in mind. But if you say exactly what you want for what terms, the adult can decide if they want to do it for the terms laid out. If the agreement is exactly spelled out between two adults and both agree, no one is being taking advantage of. I simply disagree with a lot of people's definition of taking advantage of.

[firecat69]

You are entitled to your opinion wrong as it might be. When you offer less then the generally accepted minimum rate and you get a boy to agree. it is only because you are in the power position.

 

He needs to pay his rent etc and may be forced to take a low offer. Just because he agrees does not make it right to offer him less.

 

In most countries there is a minimum wage and you cannot offer less. Just because the boys are desperate should not allow someone to take advantage of them by offering less then what is generally accepted minimum amount for sex. They do not have the protection of a minimum wage other then the customer being fair.

 

Unfortunately some customers are not fair and only interested in themselves. Most of them are here for 1 reason and that is the boys.

 

If the boys went away tomorrow most readers and posters on this and other boards would also soon go away!

[Manly69]

Well i hope the cheap skates read these replies,and adjust the amount they offer the boys.

They should be feeling guilty as hell.

[forky123]

Well i hope the cheap skates read these replies,and adjust the amount they offer the boys.

They should be feeling guilty as hell.

If they don't feel guilty whilst doing the deed, it's unlikely they will feel guilty reading about it.

[Guest whall]

Why feel guilty?

[firecat69]

I'm pretty sure that is been made abundantly clear to you in this thread. If you are coming here intending to offer the least that you can rather then what has long been established as an acceptable minimum, you will get no more help here.

 

Your listed email suggest you are coming from Chicago where you would have to pay 5-12 times as much.

 

You intend to grind every baht you can from the same boys that are the reason you are coming ?

 

Luckily assuming you are real and coming the end of October , there will be a lot more customers then now and you will have little success.

[Guest whall]

No I didn't say I'm going to do that. I actually can guarantee I won't. My only point is that I reject that definition of taking advantage of. People who find paying for sex such a big deal and morally wrong always say you're taking advantage of the other person. No matter what amount you pay, those people will always say that. My point is that you aren't taking advantage of anyone as long as the other person knows everything and agrees to it. Free choice and all that.

[vinapu]

You are entitled to your opinion wrong as it might be. When you offer less then the generally accepted minimum rate and you get a boy to agree. it is only because you are in the power position.

 

He needs to pay his rent etc and may be forced to take a low offer. Just because he agrees does not make it right to offer him less.

 

Unfortunately some customers are not fair and only interested in themselves. Most of them are here for 1 reason and that is the boys.

 

If the boys went away tomorrow most readers and posters on this and other boards would also soon go away!

I support firecat's rant raised in noble cause and all names he threw at those cheap skates.

 

I like the boy as stated several posts above and I'm glad that he found such a generous farang like you. 

 

But I have some doubts if whole issue deserved so much heat under the collar.

 

Of course offering less than accepted rate is taking advantage of situation but this is what market is for.

 

I have no doubts that with poor rental market boy paying 3000 / month would not have any reservations about asking landlord for reduction to 2000 knowing that most rooms in the residence are empty. Fair? no, taking advantage of situation? yes.

Would I condemn boy ? no. Would you? I doubt.

 

Yes , customers offering such a low rates are not fair but this was just an offer. Boy can accept , refuse or try to negotiate better rate.

 

Real taking advantage of would be  if price was agreed and reduced after the deed and this would be humiliating part.

Yes if we want to have them available we need to support boys, bars , massages etc. otherwise they will be gone.

Cheap skates should be condemned and shamed to be more generous for that self-serving reason.

 

But at end of day it's up to boy to decide if offer is worthwhile to consider or better be ignored . Clearly he was not happy since he complained to you but when you with your promise to top up what you already deservedly gave him will be gone he may decide from time to time  that low rate is still better than none.

And day may come when he notices spark in client's eye and suggest 2000 ST hoping that spark comes from  another type of heat under the collar or somewhere else not paying any attention to going rate of 1000.

[Guest whall]

Exactly! That's the real taking advantage of and I hope nobody does that.

 

I just have been accused of "taking advantage of" the other person when I pay for sex and it hits a nerve. I'm always like..how is that..I've never forced anyone to do anything...I've never not kept my word on what was agreed to..they have always been adults choosing to do it..and majority are sex positive people that don't have any problems with sex.

 

Thank you for explaining my side more eloquently than I did and putting water on this fire which was never my intention. ;-)

[firecat69]

I could not disagree with Vinapu anymore strongly. First of all Boy did not complain to me.

 

I asked him if he had received any contacts from the new photos. He said many and I followed up with the question had he met anyone.

 

He then volunteered that offers had been made 400 for Short time and 700 all night which he refused. He said some were coming in October and they had offered fair amounts.

 

Your suggestion that a boy asking for 2000 and getting it is comparable to a cheap prick paying 400 and the boy needing to eat is so outrageous that it would be hard for me to list all the ways.

 

The man who paid 2000 is staying in a room that costs per night at least what the boy pays for a week and in many cases what the boy pays for a month. Not taking into account the thousands paid for airfare etc and probably a Bar Bill that exceeds what the boy makes in a good week.

 

Also the man can refuse the 2000 offer because he know there are many more boys who will do it for less.

 

The boy is sometimes in a position because where there are few if any more customers and his decision to say no is 1000 times harder then the customer who says no to 2000.

 

Just a ridiculous argument and assertion to soften the pure fact that anyone who offers 400 is a disgusting cheap prick and he should stay in the country he came from and he should be despised by anyone who would like the Boys to continue to be available for what are still ridiculously lows prices for most of us.

[firecat69]

For Whall the argument you are making is I believe a completely different one. It is based on the fact the fact that many consider hiring prostitutes taking advantage of the individual. That is a different argument and usually couched in religious and upbringing by parents that consider prostitution a sin.

 

I get that. You can make a moral argument that it is wrong to pay someone for Sex and that you are taking advantage of that person.

 

I choose not to believe that argument and $1000 and up Hookers would surely agree.

 

My argument is about traveling thousands of miles for Sex with boys and then not having enough dignity and class to pay what is considered the acceptable minimum amount.

 

But rather grind the boy to pay the smallest amount you can. I have not accused anyone on this Board of doing that but commented on the fact that some do and they should be despised. Period!!!!!

[Jasper]

I am totally with firecat on this subject.

 

Whall- you call it "Free choices" but most of the times when a boy accept disgusting amount such as ST B400, he has no choice but to do do.

I would call it EXPLOITATION since desperate people cannot afford a luxury of choosing

 

When I see this type of discussion the word INTEGRITY always comes to my mind.

[firecat69]

For me the most telling actions by an individual are Christian PFC who posts here and everywhere.

 

I think it is safe to say Christian is very careful with his money. Nothing wrong with that.

 

He stays in rooms , I would not stay in. He travels on buses and trains I would not use. We do eat in some of the same restaurants.

 

But Christian in 99% of the cases offers 1000 baht to the boys , with rare exceptions like Saranom Park which is a different animal.

 

Christian is younger then most members here , certainly much younger then me and fluent in Thai.

 

All reasons that would enable him to pay less then the acceptable minimum rate . Yet in all but rare cases he pays the accepted minimum rate.

 

I don't think it is to much to ask and expect that all visitors act in the same way.

 

I have made more then 50 trips here . I lived in BKK for 30 months . I have seen many of the cities and provinces in Thailand and more temples, rice fields etc then I care to admit.

 

I continue to come here for one reason. The Boys and the prices we pay for our self gratification.

 

It is not too much to expect that all visitors treat the boys fairly and when they don't we condemn them for it.

 

Otherwise we will soon need to stay home and only dream of what once was.

[steveboy]

I am not an expert buyer of sex, but I think that 1000 ST is the minimum VALUE I would give to a boy attractive enough to pay for sex, regardless of the conditions of the "market".  This is a mere US$30 !!   I would have to pay US$20 entrance fee to the local sauna (where I don't go) full of ugly fat bodies and occasionally some so-so Asian full of attitude.  Compared to that, a willing seductive boy ready to please is an incredible bargain  

 

And with a reasonable amount expected by the boy I would have the satisfaction to add another 50% just to have him leave happily. (unless there is a reason not to do that)

[Guest abang1961]

Let me draw a parallel..

If carrots are sold in pairs, and you can only stomach 1 carrot a week..

Would you return the second carrot to the seller or bring that home too?

That extra may rot before you can eat it!

 

So be kind to the Thai boys..if you can afford to pay more, why not?

We are vacation-millionaires..be generous, splurge a little more..

 

Big spender, spend a little time with me ...

Hey sista go.. flow ...

Voulez-vous coucher avec moi ce soir?

Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?.. more..more.. more Thai baht, please.

[ay709394]

These arguments are meaningless, especially some ppl saying paying more for the purpose of "helping" the boy's life such as paying rent, buying food, taking care of families, etc.

 

If u really want to help out the poor people in thailand, u could hv many other charity channels to do so, don't say it loud that u pay good money for the boy for sex service and at the same time tellling people that u are also trying to help the boy.

 

There are many poor ppl in thai but not all of them offering sex service. There certainly are other options to gain money but being a money boy is just a faster and easier option, so it is the choice of the boy, I don't think there is any situation that they are forced to accept low offer. They can do other job if the offer is low.

[firecat69]

Spoken like a Real Cheap Charlie who cares only about himself and has no respect for the boys he takes advantage of.

 

Stay home and see how you make out!!!

[forky123]

Unless they are young and fit I can only assume that the guys ripping off the boys for the minimum they can get away with must simply like bad sex and being with a guy that has no incentive to make the experience an enjoyable one. I'd rather pay appropriately, extra where it's deserved, and still know I'm paying for a night what a quickie 30 minute BJ costs at home.

[biguyby]

Unless they are young and fit I can only assume that the guys ripping off the boys for the minimum they can get away with must simply like bad sex and being with a guy that has no incentive to make the experience an enjoyable one. I'd rather pay appropriately, extra where it's deserved, and still know I'm paying for a night what a quickie 30 minute BJ costs at home.

Now this post makes a lot of sense, when I was a teenager I used to help some old people with their gardens, weeding etc, I can honestly say that I worked harder for a lovely old lady who always gave me a lot more money than the usual amount.

 

Human nature to try harder for a better reward.

[ay709394]

Spoken like a Real Cheap Charlie who cares only about himself and has no respect for the boys he takes advantage of.

 

Stay home and see how you make out!!!

I am not saying I will offee that low price, but I just say there is nothing wrong if someone do this and it is up to the boy's decision, they are definitely not forced to accept it.

 

Also I just want to point out that I dont really like some people saying they offer generous money in sex service for the purpose of helping the boy's living but they never tried other direct charity option to help more poor thai people.

[ay709394]

..

[firecat69]

I am not saying I will offee that low price, but I just say there is nothing wrong if someone do this and it is up to the boy's decision, they are definitely not forced to accept it.

 

Also I just want to point out that I dont really like some people saying they offer generous money in sex service for the purpose of helping the boy's living but they never tried other direct charity option to help more poor thai people.

You are mouthing off something you know nothing about. In fact you have never been here and you come to this forum and ask questions for which you get answers and then you make a judgment about any member here giving to certain Thai Charities.

 

Not that it is any of your business but I have given to a number of Thai charities and even paid a substantial debt a family had incurred because of a sickness tragedy and needing to borrow from an unscrupulous Loan Shark.

 

It is evident you have no understanding of the Thai people and their expected help to family members.

 

Many not all of the boys come here and if they are able to make decent money they send money home to their families. It is expected of them. They leave very poor farming villages in hopes of making decent money.

 

You say they can get a job, it is their choice . Wrong again . There are not that many jobs especially in Low Season and the minimum wage in order to educate you is 300 baht per day. That mostly is a 12 hour day and 6 days a week. No chance there will be anything left over to send to family.. How would you like to work for 72 hours a week for $50 US a week.

 

You would have to brain dead to think boys like subjecting themselves to people like you for low amounts of money.

 

They do it because in most cases their choices are limited with not much education and no way to get a job that will both support them and allow them to send money home.

 

Nobody here including me is saying you should give more then the accepted minimum amount . What is being said that it is up to if you choose to give a little more out of generosity.

 

By the same token there is no excuse to try to pay less just because you can. Do you really think any of these boys actually enjoy doing what they do.

 

They are very good at pretending in order to make a living.

[Manly69]

Why feel guilty?

Lots of differing opinions on offering low amounts to the boys.

To the ones who are offering those low amounts and those supporting them.

A few words come to mind, STINGY MISER TIGHTWADS.

They probably don't feel guilty because they have no conscious.

[Guest]

They are very good at pretending in order to make a living.

 

Just remember in some cases, that pretending will include telling stories about other farang that are calculated to maximize the generosity of the one they are currently talking to.    If they find tales of woe work, that is what they will use (in some cases). 

 

I wouldn't let it affect my judgement regarding tipping.   Although, if they're constantly talking about money and the story appears to be embellished, they are much less likely to meet me again.

 

I have no doubt a small minority might offer 400 baht.  The way to deal with it is for the boy to say no, just as the customer should do when someone asks for 3000 baht short time.