Hot and Rain in Pattaya

[firecat69]

Yes and I don't blame the boys . Just like if you pay one boy something , all the boy will know what you paid.

 

But again there is that sentence that seems to get repeated . Boy can say no to 400 just like customer can say no to 3000.

 

Is there really anyone that does not understand the difference. I have said no to many boys and moved along because i Have many choices.

 

If the Boy says no , he is not sure when another might offer him the fair amount. Yes if the rent is not due or the stomach is not empty , he can say no but if this is not the case he may have to say yes.

 

His choices are minuscule and can be based on desperation. The customer can jerk off and he should before insulting a boy with an offer of 400 baht.

 

 

Good news is the businesses on Walking street are starting to hire for October and my friend got a job today and will start a week from Monday.

 

So now he can definitely tell the cheap pricks to Fuck Off which I am happy to say to anyone who wants to justify offering 400 baht.

[anddy]

Is there really anyone that does not understand the difference. 

 

 

I do, and I totally agree with you. Someone here (ay709394) doesn't understand the concept of "taking advantage of people" or "exploiting" them. While it is true that in the actual situation being offered too low a tip he has the choice to refuse. But that's beside the point. He is in this business because he and his family are in a precarious economic situation and need to get by somehow, with "normal" jobs hard to get as firecat correctly pointed out. That "choice" is a mirage. Taking advantage means taking advantage of the dire economic situation of the boy who may feel compelled to accept a very low tip because otherwise he risks getting nothing (in slow season). By that same "choice" token you could say poor people in sweat shops in Bangladesh under hideous conditions do not have to work there but have a choice not to accept a job there. Well, they don't.

[steveboy]

Also I just want to point out that I dont really like some people saying they offer generous money in sex service for the purpose of helping the boy's living but they never tried other direct charity option to help more poor thai people.

 

Yet, being generous when paying the boys IS an opportunity for giving help.  Most probably his money goes to modest people who put it to a good use, also good for the economy since they spend it right away.  This is different from 'helping' the shareholders of airlines by flying in business class instead of economy, or 'helping' big hotel chains by paying for their luxury. There is also some fairness in giving more for receiving more pleasure, quite different from paying taxes even if this helps the economy. 

 

In the US we are besieged with solicitations for charity, and one questions how much of charity money goes really into charity. There is so much fraud with anonymous charities...  With the boys working in the sex industry one expects less fraud, and even if they invent some victimization to soften their client's heart, this may be only a minor sin.

[forky123]

Also I just want to point out that I dont really like some people saying they offer generous money in sex service for the purpose of helping the boy's living but they never tried other direct charity option to help more poor thai people.

I think you misunderstand what direct means. Giving money, in hand, to people in need is direct. Giving to charities and having them take admin costs, advertising, transport, etc out before money gets to the people needing it, is anything but direct.

[Alexx]

If u really want to help out the poor people in thailand, u could hv many other charity channels to do so

Care to name a few specific ones that are good in your opinion? It's a given that many Thai charities are riddled with corruption and money-grabbing executives, so a huge chunk of the money you donate to them doesn't go to "poor people" at all.

 

And even when it does, guess what, they still have to make a selection whom to help! Personally, I prefer to help people I know directly. Not necessarily money boys, but why exclude them from being generous when you learn that they have a problem you can easily help with? Works for me, it makes both the recipients and myself happy.

[firecat69]

Don't hold your breath? He has asked basic questions and has no real knowledge of Thailand or the Boys!

[thailandone3]

I agree with firecatz. That being said, I think I've been overpaying, about 2000 for short time and 3000 for long time.

 

Sometimes I give less but a lot of the time I feel guilty if I give less than 2000.

[Gaybutton]

On this topic I'm seeing some of the most convoluted, ridiculous justifications for being cheap and stingy with the boys.  What are some of these people coming to Thailand for in the first place?  To have sex while they're here as often as possible at the cheapest price possible - and then try to come up with justifications for doing that?

 

I have yet to see anything I would consider a valid analogy or justification for taking a boy for sex and then handing over 400 or 500 baht.  They probably don't even give the boy taxi fare to go back to his room.  Unfortunately, no argument is going to change the attitude of the Cheap Charlies.

 

Ok, you come here for a two week holiday.  You have sex every day for 400 baht.  At the end of two weeks you've spent 5600 baht - the equivelent of about US $160.  Meanwhile, if instead you've given 1000 baht every day, at the end of two weeks you've spent 14000 baht for sex - the equivalent of about US $400.

 

Congratulations cheapskates.  You saved the equivalent of about US $240.  Now you can return home, have a couple steak dinners and fill your car's gas tank a couple of times - all on the boys.  You must be really proud of that and feeling really good about yourself.

[Guest Prakanong]

 

Unfortunately, no argument is going to change the attitude of the Cheap Charlies.

 

 

 

Then why make another one?

[Gaybutton]

Then why make another one?

 

Does that matter?  It can't hurt to try.  They're not going to be influenced by it anyway, but I've said my piece and made my point.

[vinapu]

I support firecat's rant raised in noble cause and all names he threw at those cheap skates.

 

I like the boy as stated several posts above and I'm glad that he found such a generous farang like you. 

 

 

I could not disagree with Vinapu any more strongly.

I sense some ungratefulness here

 

.... the pure fact that anyone who offers 400 is a disgusting cheap prick and he should stay in the country he came from and he should be despised by anyone who would like the Boys to continue to be available for what are still ridiculously lows prices for most of us.

in the  whole discussion there was not even single voice who would question this opinion , it's why I think  we generated too much heat over issue absolutely everybody agreed to.

 

Although  to be clear I think that person PAYING 400 for ST is disgusting cheap prick etc. not one just offering such a crappy sum.

Why? Are we sure that offer come from farang? If  not , there are 3 possibilities enabling us to save our foam for worse occasion of abuse

 

1. it could be somebody local used to paying local prices / not neccesarily a Thai /  who just felt urge to shave only 100 baht from usual 500/800 Saranrom rates which as Christian stated above may go as low as 300 ST and this was boy's quotation

 

2. it could be sombedy not familiar with Thai scene and accepted rates there, simply offering what he pays at home, 10 $ ST and 20 LT may be good running rates at Dhaka , Bangladesh or Lahore , Pakistan. Not everybody lives in New York and is used to 300$ rates.

 

3. it could be inconsiderate farang just testing the market without any intention  of paying that little. After all almost everybody stated that they are paying more then going rate if service is more than minimum.

 

It's why we have newbies asking about tips all the time because they just don't know.

 

Not everybody offering 30 baht  for 200 baht t-shirt is making mockery of the seller . People just want to establish going rate and pay what is acceptable to both sides.

 

YES, PERSON PAYING BOY 400 BAHT FOR SHORT TIME IS A CHEAP PRICK

 

I am totally with firecat on this subject.

 

 

When I see this type of discussion the word INTEGRITY always comes to my mind.

 

 but really who is against ?,

only dissenting voices are in  respect of extend to which boy is free to reject stupid offer or forced to accept it by circumstances. As we know from example firecat provided , one in question felt empowered to reject it.

 

Without actual boy's input we can only guess if they consider given offer slave driving or accept it resigning to their fate way we do when boss is asking us to come to work on Sunday and we know we won't be paid because we are salaried.

 

YES, PERSON PAYING BOY 400 BAHT FOR SHORT TIME IS A CHEAP PRICK

 

as for INTEGRITY expect nothing less from us here, pillars of community all !

[vinapu]

You are mouthing off something you know nothing about. In fact you have never been here and you come to this forum and ask questions for which you get answers and then you make a judgment about any member here giving to certain Thai Charities.

 

Not that it is any of your business .....................

 

.............By the same token there is no excuse to try to pay less just because you can. Do you really think any of these boys actually enjoy doing what they do.

 

They are very good at pretending in order to make a living.

don't worry ay709394 and keep posting and asking questions, sometimes our Welcoming mat is from Dollar Store but it's still Welcoming mat.

 

If boys don't enjoy and  because   our custom is  forcing them to pretend they do,  may be we are exploiting them after all  , just paying for the privilege?

[Guest Prakanong]

But I have some doubts if whole issue deserved so much heat under the collar.

 

But at end of day it's up to boy to decide if offer is worthwhile to consider or better be ignored . Clearly he was not happy since he complained to you but when you with your promise to top up what you already deservedly gave him will be gone he may decide from time to time  that low rate is still better than none.

 

You've hit the nail on the head here.  This is all much ado about nothing.  Sex workers are very streetwise and, if new, learn the ways of the trade very quickly.  They understand that how much they get depends on their looks, season of the year, their ability to charm and seduce and the gullibility of the client.  Those who don't get it won't last very long in the business or choose to remain for a survival sum rather than perform other types of work they consider too hard.  Workers from all trades complain, hoping for a sympathetic year from their bosses, hoping  to get a raise or some extra time off.  In the sex trade, they might complain to those whom they think are particularly needy and with a Robin Hood complex.  It might work, it might not.  You're exactly right in that they don't have to settle for less pay all the time.  They might have to during the leaner months but things usually bounce back during high season. If they don't, then the smarter ones will look for other types of work to supplement their income or abandon sex work altogether.

 

I find it interesting that this topic of tips is often raised on western-style boards.  Other than asking what the usual tip is for a certain type of venue is, the topic is never debated on Thai boards and it is common knowledge that 90% of the sex industry is for Thai consumption.  This suggests to me that this is a problem that is peculiar to westerners.  They raise commercial sex consumption to a level of religious charity, resulting in the holier-than-thou attitudes on display here.  I don't know why this is so; perhaps on some level it is to assuage the guilt they feel for paying for sex by chastising others on how much they tip, using an anonymous forum as a confessional for their guilt and sins.  Other than some kind of personal catharsis and ego boost, I'm not sure what it is that they hope to achieve with their tiresome sermons, bragging and finger-wagging.

 

Incidentally, I'm really a fitness model with an 8-pack and 8 inches who happens to be browsing this forum as I start work on a leper colony.  Just thirty minutes ago I dropped 50,000 Baht worth of alms into the bowls of ten monks and this afternoon I'm going into surgery to donate a kidney to a blind teenage orphan suffering form kidney failure.  Did you get that?  Please read this paragraph again if you didn't and tell your friends about it.  Boy do I feel good about myself!

[firecat69]

Enough is Enough. I have had it. I have had enough of people equating the boys with bargaining for a tee shirt in the market. I have had enough of people trying to find excuses for cheap pricks.

 

Suggesting that maybe the offers came from Thais or it is Low Season so Boy has to accept his fate and wait for better times. This from people who I assume work for a living in a country more prosperous then Thailand and who I doubt get paid different wages according to the month.

 

In fact I sat and read through multiple messages to my friend offering insulting money . They did not come from people from Bangladesh . or Thailand . They came from people from Germany and UK and other Western countries. There were a couple from it appeared retired farangs living in Thailand.

 

He has had 55 replies since he posted my photos. Many from people who say they are coming in October or November and want to meet. If they actually come most seem to know what the rates are.

 

But 15 offers from people all over the world and currently in Thailand trying to get SEX for 400 baht. And in fact 2 offered 300 baht and when he said No countered at 400 Baht. Disgusting is the only word for it.

 

Apparently I am wasting my time here because some are in denial and some do not have 15 years of experiences I have. I used to go to dinner with groups of farangs and watch them spend 500 baht or more stuffing their faces and then leaving 20 baht for a tip. I have watched them ask a Boy to sit with them in a Bar, not buy them a drink and then proud of themselves for giving them 20 baht.

 

These are the same people that offer the boys 300 or 400 baht. I have no doubt some of them are members here and may not post but lurk and read for information. After all it is free and that is what they like best.

 

Now as sad as that comment is I recognize that there are many members here who appreciate the boys and treat them fairly and sometimes even generously.

 

But some of those same members still have thrown out suggestions equating a Boy saying No to 400 with them saying no to 3000. This just boggles my mind that anyone could consider the two circumstances in any way similar.

 

I am tired and I hi-jacked my own thread . What started out to be one of my fun trip reports has turned into a miserable back and forth for me.

 

I have 23 days left and I will not post again this trip. Since it is my thread I have already asked Scooby to close it and hopefully he will soon do that.

 

By the way my friend is on a Bus at 5a m to BKK to get his mother who has a Birthday and who has never been to Pattaya. Since he has a pretty nice room and a job that starts in 5 days, he wants her to see where he lives. He does plan on supplementing his income from Gayromeo when some decent visitors offer him the appropriate amount.

 

For all the members here who never or rarely post but just look for information. Think about the reason you come here. Once you have been to the Palace, Temples etc you are here for the Boys.

 

Every meeting you have will not be exceptional but in most cases you will be satisfied by boys who put up with our age, bodies etc and most times do it with a smile. There may be a few places in the world where the price is similar but nowhere with the broad selection and choices of Massage, Sauna, GoGo Bars, Beer Bars Social Media etc .

 

Consider yourself lucky. It is why many of you travel thousands of miles . It dos not hurt to think of the Boys as Human beings and treat them fairly and with respect. Pay them at least the accepted minimum amount and a little extra once in awhile if you feel they deserve it.

 

I am done posting this trip. See you next time. I will answer PM's about any of the boys I mentioned or posted photos of.

[Guest Prakanong]

Suggesting that maybe the offers came from Thais or it is Low Season so Boy has to accept his fate and wait for better times. This from people who I assume work for a living in a country more prosperous then Thailand and who I doubt get paid different wages according to the month.

....

 

He has had 55 replies since he posted my photos. Many from people who say they are coming in October or November and want to meet. If they actually come most seem to know what the rates are.

 

 

You assume wrongly.  No, not everyone gets different wages according to the month but the self-employed in jobs that depend on tourism and other seasonal fluctuations do get different wages from month to month.

 

I'm sure the guy you assisted is grateful that he's found a pim..err...I mean facilitator for his business but he, like thousands before him, would have survived long before the first westerner set foot on Thai soil and will likely survive long after the last westerner has left.  90% of the clients of Thai sex workers are Thais themselves and they're not huffing or puffing...well at least not on any anonymous forum.

[Guest FossilGay]

I am tired and I hi-jacked my own thread . What started out to be one of my fun trip reports has turned into a miserable back and forth for me.

 

 

 

But why?  Why are you getting all worked up over anonymous random comments about market price tipping, under tipping, whatever?  Instead of getting all hot under the collar for nothing, why not channel all that altruistic energy into some halfway house for battered prostitutes, prostitutes with AIDs, prostitutes scarred or flattened emotionally because they had to service fat, smelly, cheap old farang?  Make it all legit, set up a website, solicit donations, organize annual parades with you as their flag bearer as a sign of your gratitude to them for their generous and  wonderful service to you and others over the years.  That would be far more constructive than whining and complaining on this board that only takes one click to disappear from our conscience.  You seem like a resourceful guy and obviously have your heart in the right place - just do it!

[Guest FossilGay]

Enough is Enough. I have had it. I have had enough of people equating the boys with bargaining for a tee shirt in the market. I have had enough of people trying to find excuses for cheap pricks.

 

P.S.  No one is equating the boys with a cheap tee shirt in the market!  That's just a hyperbole on your part.

 

I think the boys are aware of market forces and the capitalist nature of the business.  That's why we find fewer boys in the bars now, more are freelancing on the net where they are free to accept or reject customers, others work in massage parlors where they don't have stand in their briefs for eight hours on end, the smarter/better looking ones/with good English and other oral skills are working in Singapore, Taiwan and Dubai for much higher tips.  They're not doing that because a farang helped to post their pictures on the net and lectured other farangs on how much to tip but because they know where to go based on what they have to offer and where they can make the most money.  That's capitalism.

[Guest]

At the request of Firecat I have locked this topic. Feel free to continue discussion under a new Topic