Back Again in Pattaya

[anddy]

a maybe rather technical question to firecat, but possibly relevant to his arguments, which I completely understand: 

 

There are at least 3 ways to arrive at a pre-agreed tip of 800:

 

1. Boy asks 1000, but customer counter-offers 800 and boy accepts

2. Customer offers 800 and boy accepts

3. Boy asks 800 from the outset

 

I understand you find 1 and 2 not acceptable for the reasons you well explained. But what to do in case 3? Still pay 1000 later irrespective of service or stick with the pre-agreed 800 if service was so-so and maybe only 1000 if service was particularly good?

 

Note: TD has not mentioned how his agreement of 800 came about.

[firecat69]

An excellent point. I re-read TD post and there is nothing there to say how the agreed 800 baht came about.

 

If a boy offered to go with me for 800 baht , possibly I would accept with the intention of paying 1000.

 

If the boy acted the way TD said this one did , I might just give him the 800. However showering with me would never effect my tip. Unless it was made plain that this was a requirement , I find many boys shy when it comes to showering with a customer. This is especially true if the boy is new to the scene.

 

I always make it plain what I expect the boy to do even when on Gayromeo etc. It is silly not to tell the boy he must kiss or suck or Bottom or Top if any or all of those things are important to you.

 

I understand in many cases the boy will agree to everything because he needs the tip and then may try not to do certain things.

 

I love kissing and always tell the boys that is very important. Does not mean I get the kind of kissing I want and I always pay the agreed amount regardless and adjust any extra I might give according to how Happy I was.

 

I do social Media a lot. Once in awhile the boy who shows up at the door is not the boy in the photos. I make it plain in our back and forth he must look like pics.

 

If someone else shows up at the door , they get a 100 baht from me for their trouble. Once in a great while they get nothing because of attitude.

 

These are all things we have to decide for ourselves .

 

If you look at how many people visit this Forum any hour it is many many more then actual members or posters.

 

What I wanted to make clear for first time visitors and those just dreaming of being able to come is that the Boys deserve respect and a fair amount. Over time the amounts that are the acceptable minimums have been talked about here over and over.

 

I want them to understand why those amounts are fair and why they should not try either to pay the boys less or sit on their wallets when they go Bar Hoping.

[biguyby]

I should have explained better that I NEVER make an offer to a guy I am interested in.

 

I ask how much for ST. As I stated earlier I have been offered ST many times for 500, 600, 700 baht in both Sunee and The Complex and on the Beach at Jomtien.

 

I ALWAYS tip 1000 baht but on a few occasions when I have offed a "SPECIAL" I paid have more.

 

Because of my limited budget I only usualy OFF a guy about 3 or 4 times during my one month holiday most of the time I just go for a massage with happy ending.

 

I never do long time because although I enjoy my sexual encounters I lose interest very quickly after I have ejaculated. I am sure this suits most of the working guys too. (Why would they want to stay all night with a fat, ugly old farang)

 

As with with everything "each to his own"

[Gaybutton]

3. Boy asks 800 from the outset

 

 

I agree with firecat69's response.  I see no problem about giving a boy 800 baht if that's what he asks for.  No objection.  That's the boy's choice, but that's not the problem.  The problem is when the customer tries to get the boy to agree to a lower price.

 

I always give the boy his taxi fare in additon to the tip.  Since I live on "The Dark Side," depending on where the boy is coming from the taxi fare usually ranges between 100 to 160 baht, each way.  Probably for most of you, his taxi fare will be less than 50 baht, each way if he's coming to you as an outcall.  Once in awhile a boy has his own, or a friend's motorbike and (rarely) the boy even has his own car.

 

Don't forget, not every boy is a money boy, but if a boy is working in a bar, it's a sure bet he is.  I've met my share of boys who refuse to take any money at all, but that's never happened with a bar boy.

 

One other thing that's never happened, and ain't no way, no how, it ever will - a boy offering to pay me . . .

[vinapu]

Seems like I caused a storm of contoversy with my 800 tip. I would just like to finish by saying that I am definitely not a Cheap Charlie.

I dont do ST very often and my LT boys have always received at least 1500, more if I have been happy with their sevice. In addiition I often buy them a breakfast worth maybe 200. In the bars and gogo's I tip well, 200 sometimes. Boyfriends receive gifts for example of nice jeans.

Don't worry , actually your post enliven forum quite a bit , thank you.

 

As for controversy it always seems that we human race are heated under the collar when talking about somebody else's money, this is how things are.

 

Since everybody waded into discussion I feel urge to join in.

 

First I need to say I agree with  everybody because everybody has a valid point.

 

Only thing I'm not so sure it that why we somehow assumed that boy was not happy with his tip.

 

It could be case perhaps,  but since it's low season quite possibly  800 tip after week or two of no off   generally speaking may be more welcomed than 1500  one when boy is on the roll and it getting offed daily.

 

Everybody who is shopping at the market at close will notice that some sellers are very anxious for a deal to get rid of merchandise or at least earn something while others satisfied with day's  take are not that keen on price  reduction.

 

So boys poor performance may be related to tip but as firecat noticed may be due to lack of chemistry rather than money issue.

 

back to general agreement

 

1.I agree with boy,  if money was an issue boy was right by being upset that situation forced him to accept lower tip and decided to pay back with performing at bare minimum

 

2. If TD decided to bargain tip to 800 I don't see anything  wrong with that. Yes he could choose to be generous as suggested by others but on another hand we have market forces at hand with poor season , boy could be happy  with reduced tip as explained above and 800 while not generous at all is hardly extortionate in view of biguyby's quotations  above , fact that Saranrom boys still quote 500 for the same service and I don't even go to the issue of how much participants of fuck shows in the bars are compensated.

 

3. Nirish is also correct that deal is a deal , tip was discussed and terms agreed. I'd go even as far as to say that Gospel with the story of laborers in the vineyard is supporting his argument .

 

4. Firecat and other supporting his noble rant is right too,  we spent so much on other frills there and boys are giving us so much joy we should be generous not just transactional. They deserve it and we can afford it still getting good deal.

 

so if everybody is right why TD and boy are not happy? Well that's  the life. You buy first class ticket and still have sleepless flight because that other guy sleeps and snores like power saw.

 

On personal note if  any thread  here boosted my self esteem , it was this one as I found myself both using all  good advises  dispensed above   including mine own and found my own tipping habits not only keeping the line but often exceeding whatever was quoted here. And as a bonus I still consider that money well spent and wish everybody will feel the same. 

[Guest]

Because of my limited budget I only usualy OFF a guy about 3 or 4 times during my one month holiday most of the time I just go for a massage with happy ending.

A massage (3~400) and a happy ending (500) adds up to about 8~900 baht. 

A short time Gay Romeo encounter is 1000, so I only see a small difference there.

 

NOTE: The 500 is the price the boys in the regular massage places suggest as the tip for HR. Before everyone dives in and says that is too low, please don't confuse with full service gay places, where the tip might be set at a higher level to cover a more extensive service. 

[biguyby]

A massage (3~400) and a happy ending (500) adds up to about 8~900 baht.

A short time Gay Romeo encounter is 1000, so I only see a small difference there.

I don't use Planet Romeo or other contact sites.

 

A massage with Happy ending usually 900 - 1400 inclusive of tip but depends where.

 

An off fee from a bar in Sunee or the Complex drinks at least 200 - 400 baht off fee 300 - 400 baht ST room 300 - 400 baht tip 1000 baht.

 

Probably twice as much to off someone rather than a massage with happy ending.

 

I suppose I could save a couple of hundred baht by using my own room but I never take anyone back there.

[kokopelli]

 

 

One other thing that's never happened, and ain't no way, no how, it ever will - a boy offering to pay me . . .

 

I don't often off a boy but ,when I do, they pay me.

[dellboy]

I don't often off a boy but ,when I do, they pay me.

i believe you because the last three times i was in pattaya  i had the same problem , twice on each occasion i had a hot 20 y.o. staying the whole night with me ( i think its called long time ) , and when we finished the following afternoon he insisted on leaving 2500 baht on the locker each time !!!!

 

 

the maid was  delighted . !!!

[kokopelli]

I don't often say in hotels but when I do the maid tips me. 

[brall3]

I am Pattaya and been here for over a month. During my stay I have taken a boy off every night, sometimes 2 boys but not at the same time, and from almost every bar/club/massage. The price, without exception, has been 400 - 500 off fee and a fee of 1,500 for the guy. Only once a boy from Boyz3 insisted on 2,000. To say the least I never took him off again and nor will I buy him a drink or give a tip to him.

 

Those of you who are paying the guys 1,000 please let me know where and with whom you arrange the price. This will same me some money and allow me more offs - smile.

 

Nevertheless, regardless of what you pay, don't worry, be happy! Life is too short for anything else (look in the mirror and at the guys sitting around you). The information on this and other sites is just that, "information". Be thankful that others care enough and will take the time to share the information and their experiences. But most of all, be thankful that you are here and HAVE FUN!

[Gaybutton]

I don't often off a boy but ,when I do, they pay me.

 

"You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!"

-  Rudyard Kipling

[firecat69]

I am Pattaya and been here for over a month. During my stay I have taken a boy off every night, sometimes 2 boys but not at the same time, and from almost every bar/club/massage. The price, without exception, has been 400 - 500 off fee and a fee of 1,500 for the guy. Only once a boy from Boyz3 insisted on 2,000. To say the least I never took him off again and nor will I buy him a drink or give a tip to him.

 

Those of you who are paying the guys 1,000 please let me know where and with whom you arrange the price. This will same me some money and allow me more offs - smile.

 

Nevertheless, regardless of what you pay, don't worry, be happy! Life is too short for anything else (look in the mirror and at the guys sitting around you). The information on this and other sites is just that, "information". Be thankful that others care enough and will take the time to share the information and their experiences. But most of all, be thankful that you are here and HAVE FUN!

I hesitate to reply to this because if you are happy and the boys are happy why bother.

 

However a lot of the discussion has revolved around the minimum the boys should get. For more years then I care to remember in Pattaya short time has been a minimum of 1000 and all night a minimum of 1500.

 

Bangkok price structure is higher 1500 ST and 2000 all night.

 

 

I would guess that in Pattaya 90% of the twinks will be fine with 1000 and hopefully get more if customer is satisfied.

 

Since more muscular boys are not my attraction , I have a feeling that they ask for 1500 but no hard evidence . They are able to do this IMHO because they are in short supply compared to twinks.

 

Since you said you have taken from every Bar I have to assume that you have taken some twinks. All I can tell you is the chance of a twink refusing 1000 in Pattaya is minimal. Hopefully most will give them more if the encounter is good.

 

One problem you may have is that the Boy Telegraph has gone out and you are now well known as someone who pays 1500. Believe me if you have been there a month every boy knows what you pay. So now it will be hard for you to go back.

 

Of course you could always use Gayromeo, etc where 99% of the boys will be happy with 1000 and you won't have those off fees.

 

Truth is many of the Boys you see in the Bar are on Gayromeo etc . At any rate , it sounds like you are having fun and making the Boys happy so I would not worry too much about an extra few 100 baht here and there.

[Travellerdave]

Hi guys.

Sunny and hot today so I decided to head to Dongtan Gay Beach. It was very quiet at 10.00, which is extremely early in Pattaya, but very pleasant with the tide out showing an expance of sand.

I sat in the second concession after the toilets on one of the standard chairs. After a while I used my Ipad to down load a UK newspaper - remarkable really when you think about it. I decided to have a massage at my seat. The guy bemoaned the lack of customers so I think he was happy to get my 300 baht.

There were very few beach vendors but ICACREEM came around.

I chatted to a boy I remembered from my March trip who works in a bar in the Jomtien Complex. He said that things were very boring with few customers. I did think about taking him back to the hotel, but it was too pleasant at the beach and I have thoughts about visiting the Samsuck Sauna later. Bought him a coconut - what a good heart guy I am.

 

Heres a photo I took a couple of hours ago of the beach . And another from GR of what I would like to meet on tye beach

 

 

 

[biguyby]

I think I would also like to meet him TD - please keep us informed of developments.

[Guest]

I am Pattaya and been here for over a month. During my stay I have taken a boy off every night, sometimes 2 boys but not at the same time, and from almost every bar/club/massage. The price, without exception, has been 400 - 500 off fee and a fee of 1,500 for the guy. Only once a boy from Boyz3 insisted on 2,000. To say the least I never took him off again and nor will I buy him a drink or give a tip to him.

 

If I'm offing someone from a bar, I don't negotiate a price in advance, unless they bring the subject up.  The minimum short time in Pattaya is understood to be 1000 baht & they know that.  I'll pay more than the minimum unless it things were unsatisfactory.

[Happily, in Pattaya they don't ever turn around and ask for 2000 short time after the event & if they did,  I would feel no obligation to pay that, as any abnormal pricing expectations should be raised in advance.]

 

For Gay Romeo dates, I always arrange the price in advance.   You could try doing that during this trip -agree 1000 up front. Then you can either pay exactly that, or add in a little extra if he was nice. 

If he knows you from the bars & asks for 1500 when he meets, just say "no money" with a smile.

 

As for your next trip, well start the it with your intended pricing.

[brall3]

Firecat, you hit the nail on the head with your comments, especially with the boy communication network. I offed one guy and he knew immediately what I wanted to do without me uttering one word - humm.

 

No, I am not into twinks and have never taken one off. Again you are correct, the more masculine guys are a rare breed in Pattaya.

 

Right now I am in Boystown and I have shown your, Z909, comment to several waiters at the 3 go-go bars here. They all disagree with you and maintain that the off fee is 400 and the boy fee is 1,500. Maybe as Firecat has stated, since I have been paying that price, they are sticking with it. Who knows?

 

Nevertheless, regardless of what I or others pay, the important thing is to be happy and enjoy yourself.

[Travellerdave]

Been to the Samsuck Sauna this evening on a rented motor bike. Ive taken it for 3 days and today it has come in very useful for getting to Dongtan and also to the Samsuck. Im reasonably confident riding the small scooters in Pattaya but there is of course a risk, as there is crossing 2 nd Road. Those pedestrian crossings have fizzled out - they must have spent a lot of baht for no effect.

 

In contrast to the other venues Sansuck was reasonably busy when I arrived at 6 pm and paid my 230 entry fee and changed into speedos, where I store the condom and lube which you find in your locker. Most guys walk round with towels round their waists but i find they just fall down, so I leave the towel on a chair and just retrieve it from time to time when the need arises. I used the sauna where I found a mixture of farangs and younger Thais. In contast to the rest of the pace people actually talk to each other in there, as opposed to shuffling about avoiding eye contact. After the sauna I got into the whirlpool naked and tried to invite a Thai boy to join me, but he wouldnt. I dont blame him !.

 

The raison d'etre is of course the cruising areas on the top two floors. They are in semi darkness, whereas I remember A couple of years ago they were kept much darker. Up I went to join other shadowy figures lurking, who are a mixture of older farangs, and Thais of various ages 20's to 40's. Several cubicles were in use to good effect as evidenced by noises issuing there from. My approaches to a couple of the younger Thai boys did not produce more than a grope, but one of the older ones pulled me towards him and some kissing and cock play ensued, but I had no interest in having sex with in him on the plastic mattresses in the cubicles. None of the boys asked me for money, but no doubt they are there for more that pleasant evening !. However there is a warning notice from The boss to the effect that sex for money is prostitution and is therefore illegal in Thailand. I am sure all you guys know of this !.

 

All in all an enjoyable visit to a pleasant estabishment which I hope succeeds as it is an alternative to sitting in a bar in the early evening.

[Gaybutton]

sex for money is prostitution and is therefore illegal in Thailand. I am sure all you guys know of this !.

 

"Why, I had no idea."

-  Gregory Peck (Cleve Van Valen), 'How The West Was Won'

[Guest]

Of course the waiters will try to talk the market up by telling anyone who seems unsure that the short time rate is 1500 or more. Do you really expect them to give accurate advice on this? That is just naive. It is in their interests to inflate prices.

 

In Pattaya, I have never paid 1500 short time. If I return to a bar, the previous offs are always wanting another go.

[gerefan]

If you go into Toyboys they have a large card with the prices printed on it (mainly for non-english speakers).

It clearly states...

400 Bt Off fee;

1500 Bt Short time;

and 500 Bt for a room (short time)... probably at the Serene Hotel.

 

So there's the precedent. Whilst the boys may accept less than 1500 Bt, this does seem to be the norm in BT nowadays.

[biguyby]

I also have never been asked for 1500 baht for a ST in Pattaya always 1000 baht.

 

I was however once asked for 2500 baht for a ST in

A-Bomb but that was jokingly done when I went into competition with a much younger friend of mine.

My younger friend won out - easily.

[firecat69]

Well I have taken a few boys from Toyboy and I never asked and the price was 1000 which I almost never give unless I plan on never seeing the boy again and even then most time I will give 1100.

 

Don't care about the sign and certainly would never ask an owner, manager or waiter. They will just tell the boy they owe them a cut for the inflated price.

 

In fact I have 2 boys on my list for up coming trip that work in ToyBoy and they quickly accepted 1000 when I offered it.

 

I venture to say I may have taken a boy from every bar in BT at one time or another and 1000 has always been the price. But I don't ask.

 

Same BS you get on Soi Twilight when the waiters etc tell you 2000. Boys will be very happy with 1500 unless maybe a Superstar in a Show.

[Guest]

So there's the precedent. Whilst the boys may accept less than 1500 Bt, this does seem to be the norm in BT nowadays.

 

This is not a precedent.

 

It is best to try and grasp the basic concepts of negotiation and of bars fleecing the inexperienced.

 

Boyztown bars take a lot of first time tourists so of course they will ask for more than the going rate.    What do you expect them to do? 

I offed 7 from Boyztown and the adjacent sois on the last trip.   The highest short time tip was 1300.   In every case, the boys were after a repeat off next time I visited the bar.  That was peak season.  

[Gaybutton]

This is not a precedent.

 

I agree.  The bars can set their own off fees, but trying to set tip amounts?   To me, that's a no no.  That works in massage shops, but if a bar starts trying to set inflated tip amounts, not going to happen.  I'd be right out the door.

 

The recommended tip amounts are coming from a combination of what the customers see as fair and what the boys see as reasonable for what they do.

 

When it comes to tipping, as I see it, there's a big difference between being a good guy and being a schmuck.

 

 

Fiona:  "Some men don't like to be driven."

James Bond:  "No.  Some men don't like being taken for a ride."

-  Sean Connery and Luciana Paluzzi, 'Thunderball'