Back Again in Pattaya

[vinapu]

 

Up early today ....

you?

[gaperking]

A real stunner at Power Boys. He is not keen on 3-somes, but I can be persuasive. He is very twink, georgeous small body. Not really BFs type, so perhaps just a treat for me alone.? Have to see how things play out.

 

Oh man, boy sounds really hot. Would BE nice to hear if you had luck with him...

[Guest anonone]

you?

Yep. A rare occurrence, but it happens.

 

In this instance, BF was highly motivated as we wanted to have the shop check out his phone. A newer Samsung with a couple of issues (which I desperately hope are covered under warranty). That meant a daytime trip to the big Samsung customer service center out on Suk road. And when BF is highly motivated, he knows how to get me awake and motivated in a very pleasing way.

 

Anyway, they needed to keep his phone overnight, which has annoyed BF greatly. How he will survive a day without his phoneis still in question.

 

Anyway, apologies to TD for hijacking his thread. Just thought I would chime in with Pattaya update instead of starting anything new.

 

Cheers.

[Travellerdave]

Thats OK Anonone - probably more interesting than what I have to say

 

Things started going downhill yresterdaysj .went to Sunee in the evening. Talk about a ghost town - all that was missing was the tumbleweed. 8.30 and hardly a customer in sight. I had a coffee in an outside bar. Sat on my own as all the boys were clustered round their phones talking loudly. Later I proceeded to Sunny Boys which was also dead. The boys burst into life a little reluctantly as they have me marked down as preferring the twinks, and they stopped when I invited one of the latter to join me.

 

He looked very cute, said he was 21 but looked younger. Impetuously I decided to off him short time and took him to a ST room at Oud Cafe. He just wanted to get the deed done ASAP whereas I like a period of kissing etc. He tried to make me cum quick by first wanking my cock hard and then bouncing vigorously as i was fucking him. When finished he would not let me shower together by locking the bathroom door. To finish he wanted me to pay 1000 rather than the agreed 800.

 

Today I had my dental appointment at 11.00 after which I proceeded to Jomtien. I had noticed that the traffic was light and on arrival at Dongtan I realised that today was one of those stupid "no chair days". Im back in the room wondering what do as I planned to stay at Dongtan all afternoon and afterwards have a massage or perhaps visit the. Bamboo. Bar.

 

Oh well these things are sent try us !

[firecat69]

Such a trying day? Why don't you try to imagine how trying every day is in Low Season for the Boys who give you pleasure.

 

The accepted fair short term rate for years in Pattaya has been 1000 baht. Currently most visitors are getting more baht to their currency then before.

 

Yet you had to squeeze out 200 baht or $6 for yourself by offering a boy 800 baht. He said yes because he would like to eat and be able to pay his rent and there are few customers

 

Does not make it right and I just don't get it???. Especially when you were generous to Moop in paying him 2000 for an overnight.

[NIrishGuy]

Well it is of course up to the boy to agree or otherwise to go for 800 and if he agreed to it he really should stick to it - or provide extra better service to enable you to chose to pay more ( which in this case it sounds like the guy absolutely DIDN'T do). So while I agree it's hardly worth arguing about for the sake of 200 baht but if it was what was agreed then that's what was what was due.

[firecat69]

Sorry but that is not my meaning at all. It is about asking him to agree for 800 not the fact that he then tried to get more. I have offered hundreds of boys 1000 and some have asked for more afterwards. Some get it because they deserved it and some get a strong NO and I never see them again. Some get more even though they did not ask!

 

Boy is not stupid. He knows the rate should be minimum of 1000 but was probably desperate since we have plenty of reports of Super Low Season. No customers and so boys having a hard time paying their rent, eating etc.

 

Under your argument it is ok to offer the boy 400 baht because he is desperate and so I will save every baht for myself.

 

Did you ever stop to think Boy already thinks Customer is cheap for trying to get him for 800 baht and therefore went into the bedroom thinking he would do as little as possible and get out.

 

Certainly that is how I would feel. Not every experience is a 10. Some are 5's because many things go into making chemistry between 2 people.

 

However when you don't add enough chemicals (money) the resulting encounter is likely to be unsuccessful .

[biguyby]

The accepted fair short term rate for years in Pattaya has been 1000 baht.

I have regularly had guys in Sunee offer me ST for 500 baht but if happy I usually pay the 1000 baht but on one occasion I took a guy and he refused to take his clothes off and just wanted me to wank him and wouldn't do most things agreed - he got the basic 500 baht - I don't think it's wise to generalise or judge but just take each case as individual.

 

Just my opinion.

[NIrishGuy]

"Under your argument it is ok to offer the boy 400 baht because he is desperate"

 

Please don't put words in my mouth I never said that at all and nor I am having an argument. I'm merely pointing out that if the guy agreed to a rate then that is the rate unless the farang decided his services were worth more - and I absolutely agree with you re the boy not bothering to put in the effort BECAUSE it was 800 baht he agreed upon etc, but that doesn't change the fact he did agree it and so the farang is within his rights to pay as he did.

 

As to whether that's a particularly nice thing to do or as you alluded to a smart thing to do perhaps in terms of ensuring a good time with a guy then that's an entirely different matter of course and like I DID say personally I wouldn't think the 200 baht is worth worrying about for any farang but hey each to their own and all that.

 

Perhaps the farang felt that it WAS the amount agreed and that the boys services were average to say the least (or less) and so he decided just to stick to paying what was agreed upon and no more - which is of course his right and "up to him" as by your logic the boy could agree to go off for 100 baht, give shit service and still fully expect a 1000 baht tip as "that is the norm" even though it wasn't what was agreed - life doesn't work like that and I don't see why it should be any different for a Thai bar boy over any other self employed worker.

 

Hell the guy should consider himself lucky as some other posters on other boards would perhaps have tried to reduce the amount paid from the 800 agreed due to his lack lustre performance ( and no I'm not condoning that behaviour before you suggest it.)

[firecat69]

I would have only given the guy 800 also. The difference is I would not have offered only 800 in the beginning.

 

Who know whether that would have resulted in better performance. The one thing I am sure is all the boys in the Bar will be likely to stay away from someone who only offered and paid a boy 800.

 

Unless of course they are desperate and then they'll take anything..

 

Also it is not generalizing to say that the accepted rate for a Bar Boy off in Pattaya is 1000 baht. That is the case in almost any bar. Can you get a desperate boy after hours or a non Bar Boy offer to go with you for 500 baht. Of Course, desperation on the part of the boy does not mean you have to take advantage.

 

IMHO

[Travellerdave]

Firecat

I dont think the comparison with Moop is a fair one

My encounter last night cost me 110 boydrink, 300 off fine, 300 ST Room , tip 800 Total 1510. Quite a lot for half an hour.

Moop got 2000 but 1500 is quite common for LT. I paid him more because of his excellent service.

I would have paid 1000 last night had I been happy

 

I always think the ratio LT / ST is wrong but I suppose its all supply and demand.

 

When Ive been here in high season attractive boys have no scuples about getting more than the standard.

[firecat69]

I disagree. Your choice to go to a Bar and your choice to go to a ST room. You have to accept those costs . Part of the Bar business. Otherwise you use Social Media which you did in the case of Moop.

 

Reason I am pulled 2 ways in this argument is because you were generous with Moop. Was that because you saved on drinks, offs fees and ST rooms. I doubt it.

 

The reason I have started this argument is because many people come here looking for advice for their first visit.

 

Frankly IMHO I don't want anyone thinking it is acceptable to offer less then the going rate just because they can.

 

At some point the Boys will go away and in fact I have seen a continuing reduction of Good Looking Boys.

Certainly no comparison in the Bars anymore. None at the beach and the only savior has been social media sites But unlike 10 years ago when you could meet a stunning boy and he would still be working 5 years later , that rarely happens anymore.

 

If it is not worth them leaving their poor home to come and make money to help family (and yes most of them do) then eventually they will not come.

 

1000 baht is peanuts my last trip, now even less with the devaluation of the baht.

 

That should be the minimum offered and excellent service deserves more . IMHO

[forky123]

I must be a complete sap as I've never paid as low as 800 or even 1000 baht. I'd rather skimp elsewhere on my holiday if I had to.

[witty]

1000 baht is not peanuts. Most ordinary Thais know how to stretch their bahts at the local markets where they could get their favourite food & fruits very cheap. Chicken rice still cost about 35-40 baht per serving. Mangosteen can be bought for 20-30 baht per kilo. Even the Bangkok-Pattaya bus cost 5 baht less than last year due to low petroleum prices. Unless of course if the boys decided to splurge his tips on alcohol & imported stuff, 1000 baht is a good income for his 1-2 hours effort, on a regular basis.

[firecat69]

First of all it is peanuts to anyone who spends thousands of dollars or whatever to fly to Thailand stay in Hotels and drink and eat for the express purpose of having sex with Thai boys.

 

2nd boys don't get it on a regular basis and may be lucky to get 1 or 2 offs a week, even less in Super Slow season which it is now. They have to pay rent, food ,phone and send money home.

 

 

I am constantly amazed by people who think they are doing the boys a favor by giving them as little as possible and sitting on their hands in the Bars. Never buying drinks or tipping boys.

 

I don't get it!!!

[firecat69]

I must be a complete sap as I've never paid as low as 800 or even 1000 baht. I'd rather skimp elsewhere on my holiday if I had to.

+1

[Gaybutton]

I'm with firecat69 on this.  Most people who argue that an agreed price of under 1000 baht is what ought to be paid are the same people who spend a lot of money on airfare alone just getting here, stay in relatively expensive hotels, eat in good restaurants, have plenty of drinks, andtreat themselves very nicely.

 

Meanwhile, when it comes to the boys, far too many farang try to get them to agree to as low a price as possible.  The boys are the main reason many come here in the first place, aren't they?

 

My opinion - short time 1000 baht minimum.  Long time, including overnight, 1500 to 2000 baht minimum.  I think everyone here is well aware that this is how the boys make their living.  Why on earth anyone would be out to deprive them, just to save themselves a couple hundred baht, goes beyond me - far beyond me. 

 

If you really have to save money, just as if a few thousand baht more in tips would ruin your holiday, then cut back on drinks, eat less expensive meals, but don't be a cheapskate with the boys. 

[Jasper]

I know it's none of my business how much a customer pay if both agreed.

However personally I 'd like to be generous as possible since I love watching a beautiful smile appearing on boy's face.

I see my generosity as my way of Tam Boon.

[forky123]

1000 baht is a good income for his 1-2 hours effort, on a regular basis.

I think you are overestimating how often most of these guys get offed. I'm sure there are some popular boys that get several offs per week but I really don't think that is the norm from the boys I've spoken too. Perhaps the guys that have spent more time in Thailand than I will have better information.

[firecat69]

And the thing that some people fail to understand is if one boy is lucky and gets a few offs in a week while nobody else is getting any, he will share with his friends both for food and rent.

 

Happens all the time . Boys take care of each other because most of the Bar Owners or Massage places could care less. There are exceptions but very few.

[gaperking]

First of all it is peanuts to anyone who spends thousands of dollars or whatever to fly to Thailand stay in Hotels and drink and eat for the express purpose of having sex with Thai boys.

 

 

Generally it is not good idea to say that someone can afford doing something as you don't really know financial situation of that someone and you don't know how that person values things. If you want to be a saviour to boys, fine. That is your choice. Let others make theirs.

[firecat69]

We'll agree to disagree. Anyone who can spend thousands in airfares , Hotels, Booze and Food can afford to pay a proper tip.

 

If not they should stay home. I'm not being a savior paying the standard rate for years has been 1000 short time. I'm not saying anyone should pay more unless they want to but I am saying they should not pay less. And I'll continue to say it.

 

I am well aware that for some cheap people it will make no difference. I see them all the time sitting on their hands in the Bars rather then giving a 20 baht tip or more.

 

Anyone who pays less are cheating the boys that we all come to see. Unless they come from Africa or possibly some of the poorer Asian countries they have no chance of having Sex for what 1000 baht represents.

[Guest]

I think short time is 1000 minimum these days, unless there is a severe problem with attitude.  In most cases a little more is appropriate.

 

The earlier example of one who would not take his clothes off is a fine example of a severe problem with attitude & the cut in the tip was correct.   Arguably, any tip is generous in that case. 

 

I don't think the long time rate has ticked up to 2000 yet, but the minimum would be 1500 and reasonable performance perhaps 1700 or more.

 

The above figures are for Pattaya, although Bangkok Gay Romeo dates may also suggest 1000 short time.  Soi Twilight boys will be looking for 1500+ short time.

 

In Pattaya anyone getting 1200+ ST & 1700+ LT is making eye contact and angling for another off the moment you walk back into the bar, even right in the middle of peak season.   So it clearly is enough.

 

Thankfully, the 800 baht mentioned earlier was at least negotiated up front, so it is much much better than springing an unpleasant surprise afterwards.   Equally, if the boy has abnormally high tip expectations), he should at least mention it up front. So I do see the other side of the argument.

[Travellerdave]

Seems like I caused a storm of contoversy with my 800 tip. I would just like to finish by saying that I am definitely not a Cheap Charlie.

I dont do ST very often and my LT boys have always received at least 1500, more if I have been happy with their sevice. In addiition I often buy them a breakfast worth maybe 200. In the bars and gogo's I tip well, 200 sometimes. Boyfriends receive gifts for example of nice jeans.

[firecat69]

I never thought you were a Cheap Charlie because of many other posts. But I still think it was important for new members , lurkers that may have never visited Thailand to understand what the acceptable minimum tip was for the boys.

 

i unfortunately understand there are visitors who will try to take advantage of the boys and take advantage of desperation to pay as little as possible.

 

And it is important for people to understand that just because a 1000 baht sounds like a lot for 2 hours work when Thais in real jobs make 50- 100 baht per hour,that there is a difference.. The difference is of course at least they are guaranteed a specific amount every month and can plan their lives. During low season Boys may go a week or more without an encounter. If they work in Bars they need small amount of tips they might get or Bar money for drinks ordered.

 

You will see many post about how boys waste money on fancy phones. Again the casual visitor does not understand that most of those phones are fakes and very inexpensive.

 

Yes some boys are lucky enough to have a BF and they may abuse their good luck by wasting money. They are a Minority.

 

Most of the boys live 3-5 to a room with fans if they are lucky. They spend as little as they can on street food , no nice restaurants unless a farang is paying.

 

Do they drink with their friends . Of course they do, they are young men and enjoy each others company and having fun like we all did many years ago when we were their age.

 

The next time I find a visitor who would be willing to live the way these boys do will be the first time.

 

And yes the overwhelming majority of them send money home to MaMa when they can.

 

For those of us who visit here , mainly to have Sex with Cute Boys , we need to remember how lucky we are.

 

And then do what we can to be fair with the Boys.