Early Retirement

[Guest]

Time for a discussion on early retirement topics. 

 

How much is enough to retire on ?  The poll is for that, but lets discuss other topics as well here.

 

If funding that from your own investments, do you work on a 4% withdrawal rate?     (I would)

I expect living costs should be less than holiday costs, after all, long term apartments or even hotel bookings cost a lot less.  Also, average "entertainment" expenses should be lower.    The one area where increased costs seems likely is medical insurance.

 

Then how do you decide when to retire?    Is it as soon as you're sure the funds are sufficient? 

I suppose it will depend on lifestyles.   If you have a business that can be run from anywhere, then you have much more freedom to spend the year travelling than someone working in a regular job, so you may be happy to carry on like that.

 

Then what is your strategy for retirement?   Live in your home country, with more regular holidays?   Or emigrate as fast as possible?    

I think I would be testing a lifestyle out with some long holidays stretching into several months, before making a permanent move.  Maybe a lot of travelling on the early trips, then staying longer in locations which are candidates for permanent settlement. 

 

If you have retired early, what was your strategy and how did it go?

[kokopelli]

 

If you have retired early, what was your strategy and how did it go?

 

I retired early with no regrets about that decision but went on a boy binge for many of those years which was costly. 

[Up2u]

Retired. Can do it for 65k which is the expectation from Immigration Department to qualify for your retirement extension (provided you have no bf or live for bars and boys). There are variables which must be considered, owning vs renting, buying a car, health insurance, etc. I choose "other".

[Bob]

After vacationing 1-3 times annually in Thailand for a decade or so, I retired early (age 60), spent 2 months in Chiangmai the first year, 4 months the next year, and 8+ months there for the past 4-5 years.  I still maintain a home in the US and currently spend summers there (which adds substantially to my retirement costs, of course).

 

As concerns the "appropriate minimum", I didn't vote because there simply are too many variables in the question, a few of which would be:

(1)  Location. Living in Chiangmai is cheaper than living in Bangkok and, of course, living in the boonies would be a whole lot cheaper than any major city.

(2)  Living style and Expenses.  I personally couldn't handle living in a studio or small place but others do so without any problem.  If you wanted a moderately nice 2 bedroom condo/apartment in Chiangmai, you'll likely spend at least 12-15k per month.  For a really nice place, you can add another 7-15k baht to that figure. Then there's the cost of cable tv, internet, electricity, water, telephone, laundry, groceries, dining out, visits occasionally to the bar, transport (relatively cheap - I don't own a car or motorsy), newspapers, snacks,  etc., etc.  And, of course, medical insurance or costs (I happen to buy a high-deductible - $2,500.00 - travel policy for my 8+ month stays and that happens to currently cost just under $1,000.00, although that figure will surely get a lot bigger as I get older).

(3)  Partner?  I have no clue about the cost of offing anyone these days as I've had a Thai partner for a long time (almost 15 years); on the other hand, I'm guessing that renting (offing) might be cheaper in the long term! hehe 

 

I don't live a high-style life in CM but I think I average about 80-90k per month outflow there. 

 

As far as deciding to retire, I decided that when I felt I could do it in a financially comfortable manner.  And I probably actually deplete my retirement savings less than the 4% figure annually that you cite (that, however, depending on the ugly stock market of late, could change).

 

So far, so good.  No complaints.

[TMax]

I have just retired early and selected THB75000 a month but my retirement fund is paying me the equivalent of THB85000 a month, still enough for me to have two trips a year to LOS

[Guest]

The 4% "safe withdrawal rate" concept is that you retire & plan to spend 4% of your ORIGINAL investment pot in the first year.

For the second year, you just index the first year's withdrawal by the rate of inflation & so on.  

This assumes the money is in the stockmarket.    If the market goes up or down, you just keep paying yourself based on 4% of the original pot, with inflation indexation.

 

Various studies show how this money would have lasted for various retirement start years over the last century &  I think there are only one or two cases where the money might have run out (depending on which study you read).  Obviously if you're retiring at a time when the starting valuation of the market is very high, this increases the risk.  [e.g Current S&P 500?]

In most cases the 4% has been more than enough.  Anyone interested in that can quickly google material on the subject.  

I would be taking market PEs into account   -if starting on an very inflated market PE, I would take a more conservative withdrawal rate.

 

Is anyone out there "hedging" their currency risk?   

If you have investments entirely in GBP and 50% of your money in Thai baht, then depending on the political and economic situation, a big fall in the pound could cause problems.    So I do invest abroad, via Investment Trusts mainly. 

If Mr Corbyn ever looks like getting in, I shall want a full offshore broker account. Fully declared and above board, but at least something that would facilitate permanent emigration & be beyond Greek style capital controls.  For when the need arises.

 

As for the boy binge Kokopelli, well it's pretty easy to go for it every night of the week on holiday, but wouldn't this taper off when there as a permanent resident?     I couldn't imagine carrying on at that rate when living there permanently.   

Maybe only 15~20 per month.

[kokopelli]

 

 

 

 

As for the boy binge Kokopelli, well it's pretty easy to go for it every night of the week on holiday, but wouldn't this taper off when there as a permanent resident?     I couldn't imagine carrying on at that rate when living there permanently.   

Maybe only 15~20 per month.

Most of my binging was done in Montreal where costs were higher than Thailand. Now age and an empty purse has turned my retirement into dieting with an occasional sweetmeat or sugarplum to quell my lust.

[Guest sweetlover88]

Are you from Montreal Koko?

Salut mec, go habs go!

[billyhouston]

At the risk of giving away my age, I remember watching an ageing Guy Lafleur coming up against a young Wayne Getsky in the Stanley Cup at the Forum in Montreal. Lafleur was approaching retirement... keeping things on topic.

[kokopelli]

Are you from Montreal Koko?

 

Salut mec, go habs go!

]

Je regrette, mais je ne suis pas Quebecois. Even had to look up "habs", les habitants.

 

My only sporting activity in Montreal was the dance with no pants.

[Up2u]

"Think" vs "reality", perhaps another poll just for retirees. I know my original "thinking", spread sheet calculations were far short of reality.

[Guest]

"Think" vs "reality", perhaps another poll just for retirees. I know my original "thinking", spread sheet calculations were far short of reality.

 

Well please enlighten us then?     In which direction were you out ?

Spreadshests ?   That's organised. I have various spreadsheets for investment and so on, however the expenditure requirement is in my head only.

 

All I know is that I voted 150,000 and 80% of people think less is enough. 

Excluding flights and medical insurance (which is fantasy), I would also expect to live on a lot less that 150,000 as that's getting close to what I go through on a 4 week holiday (excluding flights).  Once retired, things like longer term cheaper accommodation can be factored in.  

In reality, I will be needing flights at whatever the price is plus some form of medical care.  Hence the THB150l estimate.

[Travellerdave]

I retired from my long term job and draw a pension of about 2500 pds per month ie 125000 thai baht. To this I will shortly be adding the UK state pension. I supplement this by taking on short term employment contacts so I am well able to finance my three trips a year to Pattaya of 3 or 4 weeks duration.

I have thought about locating to Thailand when I fully retire but have decided against it, as I concious that living there would be a totally different proposition. I love the gay scene in Pats but I am not particularly attracted to Thailand as a whole and I have met a few farangs who regret the move. The appreciation over the baht from 1 pnd = 70 baht to an average of 50 and Thai inflation has hurt those whose income is in the lower range.

Medically Im covered by travel insurance for my trips but if I located permanently in Thailand I wouldnt have this protection and this should be a really important factor in anyone's decision to live in Thailand.

No doubt a monthly income would be sufficient to live a very confortable life in Thailand.

[Up2u]

Well please enlighten us then?     In which direction were you out ?

Spreadshests ?   That's organised. I have various spreadsheets for investment and so on, however the expenditure requirement is in my head only.

 

All I know is that I voted 150,000 and 80% of people think less is enough. 

Excluding flights and medical insurance (which is fantasy), I would also expect to live on a lot less that 150,000 as that's getting close to what I go through on a 4 week holiday (excluding flights).  Once retired, things like longer term cheaper accommodation can be factored in.  

In reality, I will be needing flights at whatever the price is plus some form of medical care.  Hence the THB150l estimate.

I had budgeted for my medical and putting a roof over my head (bought a condo). Where my initial estimates fell short were(not in a particular order); the exchange rate going down from 38 USD to 29(since rebounded), having a long-term bf, and financing cars (actually two). Live in Pattaya. Buying a car was the smartest thing I did as it gives you freedom.

[Guest]

I reckon anyone from Europe or the US moving to Thailand should consider a ±50% movement in exchange rates is possible over a 10 or 20 year period.  If you think this is exaggerated, just look at the exchange rate history between the 5 largest economies in the world over the last 20 years.

 

As for boyfriends, well, hopefully even in retirement, I could remain as a butterfly & therefore keep stress and expenditure levels under control.

 

Now has anyone here taken a very early retirement.  e.g low 50s, 40s or whatever?

[kokopelli]

 

Now has anyone here taken a very early retirement.  e.g low 50s, 40s or whatever?

 40s, 50s, what?  Baht, Pounds, Euros, Dollars? ???

[vinapu]

 40s, 50s, what?  Baht, Pounds, Euros, Dollars? ???

malotis or dalasis? / currency of Lesotho and Gambia respectively /

[kokopelli]

 

Now has anyone here taken a very early retirement.  e.g low 50s, 40s or whatever?

 

After re-reading the above I believe you are referring to age and not money?  In that case, I retired at 53.

[Guest]

Yes I was referring to age.

[steveboy]

After re-reading the above I believe you are referring to age and not money?  In that case, I retired at 53.

 

Congratulations.  I know a person who retired at 57 and I see this as an example of having the right priorities. Even more in your case.   He is in good financial situation with a pension that would be generous in a place like Thailand. His priorities shifted from work to "working on himself".   Healthy habits of eating well and exercising,  no stress, plenty of sleep, and a full day occupation with hobbies and personal interests.  Not desperate for sex,  therefore he remains in his original country the US, but being in top shape he remains competitive in this area too.

[vinapu]

I know a person who retired at 57 and I see this as an example of having the right priorities.

I don't mean to dispute what you said above but being of generation which is slowly but surely approaching retirement age both early and regular,  I sometimes think that some of my contemporaries in quest of reaching their laudable and enviable , at least by me , goal of retiring comfortably early sacrificed big chunk of their lifes.

 

I envy them because they are counting literally days to freedom from slavery, they envy me because last time I spent vacations at home was in 1989  and in the same time all of theirs were spent in the backyard.

 

Like with all priorities we are setting for ourselves, as laudable as they are we shouldn't forget that we have life to live now as well. When setting priorities we need also to make cost analysis if goal we are trying to reach won't turn bit bitter or even worse lonely because we will have our money and health but not many friends to talk to.

 

Just a bit bitter thought from somebody who got call this morning from long lost friend. Joyful reunion but when conversation was over my thought was ' where the fuck you were all those years ? ", whole 30 of them

[steveboy]

I don't mean to dispute what you said above but being of generation which is slowly but surely approaching retirement age both early and regular,  I sometimes think that some of my contemporaries in quest of reaching their laudable and enviable , at least by me , goal of retiring comfortably early sacrificed big chunk of their lifes.

----

Like with all priorities we are setting for ourselves, as laudable as they are we shouldn't forget that we have life to live now as well. When setting priorities we need also to make cost analysis if goal we are trying to reach won't turn bit bitter or even worse lonely because we will have our money and health but not many friends to talk to.

 

 

I fully agree with you.  We should also live in the present and not only for the future.

I'm guilty as hell in this respect because I have lived mostly in a differed compensation mode where I didn't mind sacrificing today for a better life tomorrow.  This is why I take example in people like you and others who are not willing to sacrifice the most precious commodity of all: TIME.   Working, working, working and no time to enjoy life even when this is possible.   Now I am all for early retirement if circumstances permit.  And one of the goals I see in it is to preserve and enhance our health and good looks by having time to do all what this requires.

 

When we retire the cost of living goes down too.  One can put aside material ambitions and reduce expenses to a reasonable minimum, and then the money is there.  I observe that many retired people ENJOY their frugality even if they have plenty of income, and they keep saving from their income to add to their retirement funds.  But they have the ability to SPEND the money for their enjoyment when there is the time for that and get the maximum value out of it.

 

A retired person can become a smart traveler who has the time to research his trips and choose the most cost effective ways of traveling and lodging.  Luxuries become dumb and out of the question. A healthy senior does not need to be pampered. Who is there to impress?   A retired person who tries to impress the attractive young through extravagant spending is ridiculous.   It is better to impress with a well kept body and hear "you must be 20 years younger than what you say you are..." and "what you do to keep in the shape you are?..."

[vinapu]

.......and hear "you must be 20 years younger than what you say you are..."

this is easy, if you are 60 tell everybody you are 80 and you will hear this all the time :  ' no, you can't be serious, really? "

[a447a]

I retired in my early fifties and the problem I found was that I was spending a lot of time alone, as my friends were all still working and so weren't able to travel with me.

 

I got used to travelling alone and now I prefer it that way. Last year I invited a friend to travel to Japan and China with me. Although he's a good friend and we had a great time, sometimes I just wanted to be by myself.

 

Another problem is that now that my friends have retired, some of them don't have enough money to do things with me; others have the funds but are too cautious and are reluctant to spend. I don't know why -they can't take it with them. Thankfully, some have now loosened the purse-strings and we are enjoying life to the full.

 

But I'll still travel alone.

[Guest]

I sometimes think that some of my contemporaries in quest of reaching their laudable and enviable , at least by me , goal of retiring comfortably early sacrificed big chunk of their lives.

 

I'm not sacrificing anything of significance by planning to retire early.   

Any consumer item I want, I get.  Luckily I don't have any interest whatsoever in putting an expensive new car on the drive, so that's the major expense eliminated.  I also have a naturally frugal lifestyle.

The biggest constraint in my life currently is the holiday allowance. The one thing I would spend more on is travel & as it is, in some years I have spent 6 whole weeks abroad.  In my line of business, the jobs where you can take an extra month's unpaid leave just don't exist.