Flight upgrades to Thailand

[baobao]

firecat69 asked on the How many times a year [do you] travel to Thailand thread:

 

"Do you find it cheaper and available to upgrade to Prem Economy after purchase on KLM rather then purchase it in advance." - and I think it might be a good opportunity for folks to share how they handle upgrades, in case there are suggestions some have thought of and some might not have.

 

The timing aspect is interesting, but is it less dependable now that more and more flights are leaving without an open seat? I'd be interested in hearing the experiences of others.

 

I tend to stick with a couple of airlines that go where I often visit, and use their points for upgrades when I can. Now that a few more airlines have joined together (for example a couple of new additions to Star Alliance) it creates more opportunities to gather miles/points. Some use specific credit cards, and some credit cards - such as American Express - can offer credits you can apply, too.

 

What are your favorites, and why? Shortfalls are also welcome - i.e. mileage that expires quickly.

 

 

[vinapu]

 

 

I tend to stick with a couple of airlines that go where I often visit, and use their points for upgrades when I can.

quite opposite , I'm not loyal to any airline and when travel I'm looking for the best deal and for me it's ratio of price to flying time  counted as time taken  door to door..

 

I'm collecting miles on two programs but treat them as an additional perk and would pay no more than 10% or 100 $ , whatever is less,  premium to  take flight with miles as opposite to cheaper one without.

 

Having still pretty high tolerance for travel indignities and generally having good time just being on the road , whatever it means,  I found loyalty to be increasingly uneconomical. There were better times for loyal customers  but long gone as far as I'm concerned.

 

When I have points I rather use them for free short time flights rather than upgrades on long ranges.

[fedssocr]

The entire FlyerTalk.com website is devoted to this.

 

Since I go halfway around the world (USA-SE Asia) only once a year, I basically just use miles for first or business class award flights. And the vast majority of my miles have come from credit card sign up bonuses. The game isn't quite as easy as it was 3-5 years ago, but you can still play it. If you're based in the USA it's much easier than anywhere else to do the credit card thing.

[forky123]

I stick with one airline as I have enough points to get discounts on the seats and have never had issues with them and find the service good. I tend to go for Premium Economy tickets which I try to book fairly well in advance to get reasonable prices. If I can, I book the exit seats in Premium for the extra room. On occasion I've upgraded to Business if I've found particularly good rates. I try not to fly economy after one 11 hour flight when the guy in front of me was reclined fully for the entire trip which left me no choice but to do the same. A very uncomfortable trip which I don't want to repeat.

[Guest]

I'm travelling at quite a busy time of year & at the weekend, so the Premium Economy seats will probably all be booked up well in advance. 

[Guest anonone]

A rather broad question regarding upgrades and airlines with many options and variables.  As mentioned above, there is a huge forum board (flyertalk.com) devoted to the "ins and outs" of the travel programs. 

 

I am fairly conversant in several of the programs and it really comes down to each individual's circumstance.  I do a fair amount of domestic travel within the USA for work, so that makes it much different as opposed to someone that is 100% leisure.

 

Outside of the frequent flyer game, the introduction of true "premium economy" on several airlines is a significant change.  As a mid-tier between business class and economy, it does make available a less torturous seat at a fairly reasonable cost.  (I am referring to the separate class of service, not the "more leg room" type of economy seat.) Not lie-flat like most business class now, but much more tolerable then the sardine can that most economy cabins have become.  If I am not able to find upgrade space on my flight at the time of purchase, I now have a backup plan to purchase a premium economy seat.  I won't arrive in Thailand well-rested and ready to hit the bars....but I won't be a pretzel upon arrival either. 

 

It is also very important to know the exact type and version of plane traveling on the route you are considering.  Even within the same airline, there can be multiple seat configurations of the same airplane.  ie 3 different versions of the 777-200 and 3 different versions of the 777-300, all of the same airline.  This can be a huge difference in comfort depending on how the seats are configured.

[vinapu]

 

 I won't arrive in Thailand well-rested and ready to hit the bars....but I won't be a pretzel upon arrival either. 

 

 

on long flights condition on arrival may more depend on one's ability to sleep on the plane than class traveled.

I generally don't sleep on the plane but on few occasions when I did I was surprised by the difference.

[kokopelli]

on long flights condition on arrival may more depend on one's ability to sleep on the plane than class traveled.

I generally don't sleep on the plane but on few occasions when I did I was surprised by the difference.

I don't often fly Biz Class, but when I do,  I drink wine and plenty of it. Then I sleep.

[Guest anonone]

on long flights condition on arrival may more depend on one's ability to sleep on the plane than class traveled.

I generally don't sleep on the plane but on few occasions when I did I was surprised by the difference.

 

I guess it was sort of implied, but I find it very easy to sleep in Business Class.  A meal, some drinks, and a lie-flat bed and I am asleep for 6-8 hours on every flight.  I haven't had the displeasure of the 13 hour flight in economy, but I know I would be crapped out after that.  For me, that is the sole reason to be in Business Class....the ability to sleep.

 

No way I could sleep much in economy.  Doze a bit maybe, but not real sleep.

[Travellerdave]

Whilst I could afford the extra for business or premium economy classes I cannot justify the substantial extra cost.

I can handle 13 hours of mild discomfort (UK - Thailand). I always select a centre aisle seat where the chance of a vacant adjoining seat is greater.

Mind you I always give an ironic sigh when at the conclusion of the flight I hear the announcement "We hope you have enjoyed the flight and hope to see you again". Enjoy 12 hours in economy ? You cannot be serious !.

To enjoy pleasure you must experience pain it is often said. Well it certainly is pleasurable arriving at my hotel, having a shower, pouring a drink and stretching out in a large comfortable bed.

[vinapu]

I always select a centre aisle seat where the chance of a vacant adjoining seat is greater.

me too and for exactly the same reason. 

 

When I arrive in Bkk regardless of time of day/night right after having shower I have obligatory stroll through Silom , Suriwong and Patpong. All look very different at dead of night, in the morning , during day and in the evening.

 

With age I noticed I take discomfort of economy class better and better perhaps surprisingly but good for my pocket. Jet lags are what is killing me , particularly on return 

[Travellerdave]

Yes jet lag seems to affect me most on my return home. For weeks I wake up at 3 am and am very sleepy in the early evening.

[anddy]

on long flights condition on arrival may more depend on one's ability to sleep on the plane than class traveled.

I generally don't sleep on the plane but on few occasions when I did I was surprised by the difference.

if you noted the difference of some inflight sleep, why don't you learn the lesson and make it mandatory for yourself to sleep as much as possible? aonone got that part right. That way jet lag is no longer an issue, or at least not as much. 

 

 I can speak for flights from Europe to BKK (10-12 hours), and I always try to take the night flights in either direction, so one is in sleep-mode anyway. Even if I can get only a day flight, I sleep (sometimes by reducing the previous night's sleep to a minimum, plus sleeping pill, see below). Sleep 8 hours, and not big issues with jet lag. The arrival day (arrive morning/midday) might not be your fittest, but go to bed fairly early for a full nights sleep and all jet lag is gone. Flight times to/from US might not work as well, plus unavoidable layovers, so you work out your optimal sleep schedule.

 

If you "can't sleep on planes" (as many people claim), well for one apparently you already have on occasion, but more importantly business class is the way to go. IMHO it *IS* well worth the expentidure. Besides, always be on the lookout for airline specials. There have been dirt cheap offers, for example FRA-HEL-BKK and back in Finnair with lie-flat business class for only 1300 Euros, an absolute steal. Often, they offer it in the 1500-1700 range, still good. Currently, I heard Lufthansa has a special for only 1800, and that's non stop to boot. I have never paid full fare on a business of first class ticket, and of course sometimes just bought the whole thing with points (best value for points IMO, rather than upgrading, which requires ertain usually expensive economy booking class fares as a basis).

 

If your pocket still revolts, I have discovered the huge benefit of sleeping pills, which in the US can easily be obtained over the counter. Work like a charm. They enable you to fall asleep more easily AND make the sleep you actually get deeper and less interrupted or uneasy. i.e. more gives you a closer semblance of quality sleep. And they do NOT leave you drowsy the upon waking up. 

[vinapu]

 

If you "can't sleep on planes" ...... business class is the way to go. IMHO it *IS* well worth the expentidure. Besides, always be on the lookout for airline specials. There have been dirt cheap offers, for example FRA-HEL-BKK and back in Finnair with lie-flat business class for only 1300 Euros, an absolute steal.

I know you are trying to help but for cheapskates like me very thought of spending money on business class would cause sleep deprivation.

 

I rather suffer cattle class sleepless indignities  for half of that price  and use money saved this way to waste on massages, drinks, off fees and boy's tips. At end of day I believe I have more fun laying flat with Tawan hunk  than alone in business class, but that's me ,an idiot who considers Tarntawan ultimate luxury.

[firecat69]

And thus the argument is personal choice. If one can afford Business that is their choice if it makes the trip better, Likewise there are some who just cannot afford it. And then there are those who can afford it and do not see value in it. No one is right or wrong. Personal choice.

 

The range in Hotels is not really so wide especially if you are a Premium member of some program .  For instance I regularly stay in a Luxury Hilton in Bangkok for 1300 baht and some points of which I have many.

 

For me having a fabulous pool , breakfast , room etc makes it a no brainer. Tarntawan for the same or more money or luxury at the Hilton.

 

Yes Tarntawan is closer to Soi Twilight but Soi Twilight makes up a very small % of my time in Bangkok.  I can get there anytime I want for a 70 baht taxi ride or less on the Skytrain..

[kokopelli]

 

 

 

If your pocket still revolts, I have discovered the huge benefit of sleeping pills, which in the US can easily be obtained over the counter. Work like a charm. 

Well, I do agree about sleeping pills but know of no over the counter pill available in the US that is really effective and works like a charm unless what you are referring to is the below:

 

 

A prescription pill that is good, and leaves no "hangover" is Sonata. For me, the best sleeping aid comes in liquid form.

[anddy]

I know you are trying to help but for cheapskates like me very thought of spending money on business class would cause sleep deprivation.

 

I rather suffer cattle class sleepless indignities  for half of that price  and use money saved this way to waste on massages, drinks, off fees and boy's tips. At end of day I believe I have more fun laying flat with Tawan hunk  than alone in business class, but that's me ,an idiot who considers Tarntawan ultimate luxury.

haha, point taken ;-)

 

And thus the argument is personal choice. 

exactly, as so often (if not even always) in discussions like this. As we all know and appreciate, nobody wants to convince anyone of their personal choices/preferences, the point is to exchange ideas, suggestions, meybe sometimes, someone can learn something new for their benefit, which would be nice :-)

 

Well, I do agree about sleeping pills but know of no over the counter pill available in the US that is really effective and works like a charm unless what you are referring to is the below:

 

Charm.jpeg

 

A prescription pill that is good, and leaves no "hangover" is Sonata. For me, the best sleeping aid comes in liquid form.

haha, no I meant something like this.

 

 

Have tried 2 or 3 times, worked fine for me. They are not so strong, but that can be helped by simply taking two.

[Guest anonone]

Agree, the over the counter sleep aids work just fine for a flight...especially when helped along by a couple strong drinks with meal.

 

A bit of a warning to never take a strong, prescription sleeping pill (Ambien?) for the first time while on a flight.  Apparently some people have powerful reactions to it resulting in stories about strange behavior on board the plane.  Not the time to be sleepwalking...

 

Back to the flight upgrade discussion, the real sweet spot is to fly enough to reach airline status which includes upgrade certificates.  These allow an upgrade to business class when purchasing a mid-level or higher economy fare.  In practice, I pay about $300 more for the economy ticket but fly in business class for the long 13-16 hour flight. 

 

There are some restrictions/tricks and it helps to be flexible with travel dates, but I have yet to fly economy class over an ocean for the past 5 years.  Between the upgrade certificates and using miles for "free" travel in Business/First, it really is possible if you play the game.  Takes a lot of learning and some time, but for me, really worth it. 

[Guest]

I'm with Dave on the business class topic.   Whist I could AFFORD it, there is no way I can justify the kind of premiums required when the alternative of economy is not that bad. 

Having said this, I did pick up a nice premium economy fare for the next trip.

 

The whole airlines points system has little relevance for me.  All my short haul personal and business flights will be on low cost airlines and earn no points. Currently I average about 1 long haul business flight and 1 holiday flight l.  No upgrades there.

The whole thing seems geared to people who do a lot of qualifying business travel & can gain points on flights paid for by their company to use for their personal travel. 

Or perhaps those of you who have got their act together to have the time and money for multiple long haul flights.

 

As for sleeping, with 2 or 3 nytol and 2 or 3 glasses of wine, I manage to get 3~4 hours on the overnight leg normally.  I would be tempted by some better tablets, just for the flight and perhaps 1 extra night. 

However, going to see a doctor and getting a prescription is too much hassle. It's not like I can turn up at 6:00pm and walk out 10 minutes later with a prescription.

[firecat69]

Yes if you fly a lot Domestic travel it can be worth it to use for International Upgrades.

 

That's what I did with UA . Made Top Tier and they stop flying to Thailand essentially making the certificates worthless for me.

 

Unless I want to sit in the worst economy in the world on ANA from Tokyo to BKK. 

 

That was enough for me.  I still have enough miles for 6 RT Business Class tickets assuming they don't devalue the miles again which they certainly will.  Then I will reduce my trips and lengthen the stays and make sure I start the RT in BKK rather then the USA and the fare is anywhere from 25-40% cheaper then starting the flight in the USA.

 

I fly very little Domestic so they have made it impossible for me to earn High Levels and since you get nothing for status if you are flying Business anyways where you already get everything that mileage chasers get. Such as free baggage , early boarding etc etc etc.

 

Same experience with DL .  I will use up my miles and then may use them in the future for purchased Business tickets , since their product is far superior to UA.

 

But airlines such as EVA , Korean etc offer a much better product at the same or less money.  So eventually I will no longer fly US carriers.

[vinapu]

 

 

exactly, as so often (if not even always) in discussions like this. ...... the point is to exchange ideas, suggestions, maybe sometimes, someone can learn something new for their benefit, which would be nice :-)

 

 

I can attest to it. I never considered Nantra Silom  and Tarntawan hotels until I read reviews on this very forum.

Also learned about S52 massage here as well as Pattaya vans from the Victory Monument.

[chaotou]

 

Unless I want to sit in the worst economy in the world on ANA from Tokyo to BKK. 

 

 

Will you share you experience as to why you feel this way?   I am considering a routing that includes this flight segment on ANA.

[firecat69]

The narrowest and least pitch in economy of any airline in the market.  If you are 5'8"  and less then 150 lbs, you might survive , otherwise awful flight even though only 7 hours.

[Guest anonone]

I have flown the ANA flight in economy several times now.  Comfort is very dependent on the type of plane they are using for your particular flight.

 

It used to be the 767 quite a bit, which as Firecat indicted, is pretty bad.  I survived one flight on it and then swore never again.

 

They have just added an early evening flight using a 787.  I booked this one for my next trip as it arrives at 2130 instead of 2330.  Apparently, the economy seats on this are also pretty bad, which I didn't realize when I booked.  I am really hoping for an empty seat next to mine as seat width is pretty crappy.

 

The later evening flight on their 777 is the best option.  I have flown it many times.  It is not really great, but it is manageable.  The seat width is pretty standard (3x3 across on 777, while some other airlines have started packing in 3x4x3) and the pitch is marginal.  Tip: remove all the junk from the seat-back pocket and put it in the overhead bin.  Gives you another inch or two which I find helps a lot

[anddy]

for seat info on any given flight www.seatguru.com is very helpful.

 

As for emptying seatpockets as anonone suggests, that's a good idea and some airlines and seat designers had the same idea, sort of, by now putting the magazines etc. in a seat pocket on top of the seat, rather than at the bottom in front of your knees. The rationale for that, obvioulsy, may be less to give MORE leg-/kneeroom, but to squeeze in more seats at the same legroom. Still helps.